New XNA FAQs

[archangelmorph]

I'm genuinely excited, though I am aware of the stats around the extremely low conversion rate of game ideas into actual games.

Stats don't tell you anything other than the relatively low motivation for the vast majority of homebrew developers to both get a project off the ground and moreso; to actually see it through to completion.. If you're serious about your ideas & realising them in full then as long as you have the dedication & motivation to make it happen then there's really nothing stopping you at all..

Good luck dude!

 

[AzBat]

Democratizing Game Distribution: The Next Step

Dax Hawkins, XNA Community Games Lead, has posted a 7 page preview on Gamasutra about the beta process for submitting and reviewing XNA Community Games. It's a pretty good article and does a fair job of preparing developers on what the process will be like when they open the beta to Creator Club members in the spring.

Democratizing Game Distribution: The Next Step

Tommy McClain

 

[archangelmorph]

Dax Hawkins, XNA Community Games Lead, has posted a 7 page preview on Gamasutra about the beta process for submitting and reviewing XNA Community Games. It's a pretty good article and does a fair job of preparing developers on what the process will be like when they open the beta to Creator Club members in the spring.

Democratizing Game Distribution: The Next Step

Tommy McClain

Yeah, great that they forgot the fact that the US isn't the only country in the world who'd want in..

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Can other countries submit games but they're only available to DL in the US? Or can only US people (accounts? How do they know?) contribute titles?

 

[archangelmorph]

Can other countries submit games but they're only available to DL in the US? Or can only US people (accounts? How do they know?) contribute titles?

Only US can contribute to the Beta.. I'm not sure about accessing uploaded titles though.. I think they will probably only be regionally-accessible also..

Ah well..

As long as they don't gimp anything for us in the rest of the world the full roll-out later in the year..

 

[Rangers]

interesting interiew with creator of dishwasher

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6187581.html

 

[archangelmorph]

So does this mean that the community service offering up cc developed games for free is confirmed..?

If true then that's pretty poor if you ask me.. At the very most as a developer with high ambitions the best you can hope for is to get some exposure in the hopes that an XBL publisher will pick it up..

Still not good enough as fas as i'm concerned..

 

[rbushner]

If true then that's pretty poor if you ask me.. At the very most as a developer with high ambitions the best you can hope for is to get some exposure in the hopes that an XBL publisher will pick it up..

If you had high ambitions, you would publish it yourself.

 

[archangelmorph]

If you had high ambitions, you would publish it yourself.

You don't need high ambitions to publish a game..

now a couple of million dollars on the other hand..

 

[Dominik D]

So does this mean that the community service offering up cc developed games for free is confirmed..?

Not sure if I understand your concern. Are you asking whether that article confirms that all community created games will be free (as in: you can't make money out of it)?

 

[archangelmorph]

Not sure if I understand your concern. Are you asking whether that article confirms that all community created games will be free (as in: you can't make money out of it)?

yes..

Sorry I realise the wording was a bit ambiguous.. ::

 

[Dominik D]

I don't really understand how did you get this impression from that article then. Dishwasher will be released as XBLA title not because CC game can't make money (perhaps they can, perhaps they can't - I have no idea; see below) but because that was the idea behind Dream Build Play contest - you win, you get XBLA deal. I haven't seen any indication of "CC games are free" in that interview.

That said - perhaps they will be all free. Microsoft clearly stated that pricing model has not been disclosed yet (if "no coments" is a clear statement). There is one thing certain though - even if James Silva has any idea about pricing model for CC games (which I doubt, he's going XBLA route after all) he won't say a word about it. Also note that MS expects 1000 games by the end of the year. With service scheduled for this fall (AFAIR) that's pretty tight for an only-free-games model IMO.

Also please note that "pricing model" can be anything. Industry personas has been thinking about ad-supported casual games. CC games could be free, pay-per-download, pay-per-view, ad-supported (ads before launching game or in game itself) or anything else. There's probably only a small group of people who have any clue on how it is going to look like and I doubt any interviews will bring more details before MS's official announcement.

 

[archangelmorph]

I don't really understand how did you get this impression from that article then. Dishwasher will be released as XBLA title not because CC game can't make money (perhaps they can, perhaps they can't - I have no idea; see below) but because that was the idea behind Dream Build Play contest - you win, you get XBLA deal. I haven't seen any indication of "CC games are free" in that interview.

Really..?

GS: Do you think free XNA games will undercut the traditional $5-$10 XBLA releases?

JS: I think we're still going to see a lot of "you get what you pay for." XBLA Games guarantee a certain level of quality as well as standard features; Community Games on XBL don't. The first game I made when I started playing with XNA is a Smash Brother's/Small Arms type game that I don't really see as being XBLA caliber, but I still would like it to see the light of day as a console game. Community Games on XBL is a perfect fit for this type of game. By the way, the game's titled "Zombie Smashers X4: Guitarpocalypse."

Sounds to me to be pretty consistent with the recent Chris Satchell quote someone posted earlier in this thread which directly infers that the XNA distribution platform won't be offering any commercial model for developers..

I could be wrong however.. (I bloody well hope I am..)

That said - perhaps they will be all free. Microsoft clearly stated that pricing model has not been disclosed yet (if "no coments" is a clear statement). There is one thing certain though - even if James Silva has any idea about pricing model for CC games (which I doubt, he's going XBLA route after all) he won't say a word about it. Also note that MS expects 1000 games by the end of the year. With service scheduled for this fall (AFAIR) that's pretty tight for an only-free-games model IMO.

Bear in mind that XNA developers have been creating content since last year though so I wouldn't be suprised to see the platform flooded with content by the year end.. Also I read somewhere else that the '1000 games by year end' comment wasn't restricted only to XNA but all XBL content as a whole..

Also please note that "pricing model" can be anything. Industry personas has been thinking about ad-supported casual games. CC games could be free, pay-per-download, pay-per-view, ad-supported (ads before launching game or in game itself) or anything else. There's probably only a small group of people who have any clue on how it is going to look like and I doubt any interviews will bring more details before MS's official announcement.

Maybe..

I hope you're right..

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sounds to me to be pretty consistent with the recent Chris Satchell quote someone posted earlier in this thread which directly infers that the XNA distribution platform won't be offering any commercial model for developers..

I could be wrong however.. (I bloody well hope I am..)

I understand that to mean the release of free titles alongside commercial titles. I don't think this is a problem though. There's a mass of free stuff on PCs, but people still pay for download content, because quite frankly most free stuff is free for a reason...no chump would pay for it! A free only platform would be swamped with people learning the ropes and giving it a go and releasing tacky, low-grade stuff that's fine for home-made stuff but not going to compete with commercial stuff. It's not like people have given up going to the movies because they get all the entertainment they want from home-made YouTube flicks! You'll then get some quality titles from serious wannabes who'll get skimmed off and placed with a publisher. Whether the sales have to go through XNA or not, I don't know, but i guess in the worst case where XNA is free only, you'd release a dumbed down game as a sort of demo, and then if people like it and rate it highly, you'd then shop around for a publisher telling them that the full game is soooo much better, and look how much interest there is already.

 

[Arwin]

Well under the current conditions, if Dishwasher is published by MS, then I think Angelmorph stands a good chance that his game could make it too. That said, the annoying thing here is that you are going to make an investment, and then it is entirely up to Microsoft, and their efficiency to deal with potentially many requests, if and then when the game is commercially available. That makes any kind of personal investment a lot more complicated and risky.

But last time I heard they're still working this out. The whole XBL exclusivity thing is going to slow down this initiative if it's also impossible to make money out of your game.

 

[archangelmorph]

I understand that to mean the release of free titles alongside commercial titles. I don't think this is a problem though. There's a mass of free stuff on PCs, but people still pay for download content, because quite frankly most free stuff is free for a reason...no chump would pay for it! A free only platform would be swamped with people learning the ropes and giving it a go and releasing tacky, low-grade stuff that's fine for home-made stuff but not going to compete with commercial stuff. It's not like people have given up going to the movies because they get all the entertainment they want from home-made YouTube flicks! You'll then get some quality titles from serious wannabes who'll get skimmed off and placed with a publisher. Whether the sales have to go through XNA or not, I don't know, but i guess in the worst case where XNA is free only, you'd release a dumbed down game as a sort of demo, and then if people like it and rate it highly, you'd then shop around for a publisher telling them that the full game is soooo much better, and look how much interest there is already.

Problem is where do you go from there..? a full blown XBL release means months of extra work polishing/changing gameplay, adding new modes (a la multiplayer & co-op MS seem to be so hellbent on), achievements, localisation (something i'm not sure is an issue with XNA since nothing has been mentioned about this so far..), QA & even worse, MS's lenghty certification process..

Not the easiest means of delivery if you're only a one man team..

 

[rbushner]

now a couple of million dollars on the other hand..

XBLA does not come close to costing a million to publish on. That is the point of XBLA, to massively reduce the costs of publishing certain types of games. There is no packaging, distribution, or support to worry about.

I would think a developer with high ambitions, would borrow/find investors rather than rely on being found by some publisher, which will then only give them a small cut.

I don't see the community allowing commerce as being a good thing, it would stifle it. If you want the options to sell something in the future, do as Shift says and put up a limited build and then gauge whether there is enough demand to continue on.

MS's lenghty certification process..

So you honestly think Microsoft taking money for games that haven't gone through any QA (that they know of) and passed their cert process is a good thing?

 

[Dominik D]

@archangelmorph
Question is clearly whether free games will impact sales, not whether all games will be free. It's like a difference between these two:
- Are pink shoes going to be emo fashion statement?
- Are all shoes going to be pink?
In my opinion this requires a lot of bad will to jump into conclusion that all CC games will be free. I'm not saying they won't be, I don't know that and you don't know that either. It is possible, I'm not saying it isn't. And I do understand your concern and yes, I also believe that pricing model set to "it's free or get out" would suck.

About the quantity... Please also take into account that MS will be hosting those games. Whatever (non-free) pricing model will be set in place, it will be there to cover (at least parts of) the costs of hosting all that stuff. Once again I find it hard to believe that MS will host 1000 games without any potential money gain. Image is important, but it's cool not to lose a lot of money in the process. XBLA has about 100 games right now. With 2 games per week this can go up to 250 by the end of this year. There are still 750 CC games to hit 1000 mark.

@rbushner
Various independent creators hinted that you can create XBLA title for around 200k but this numbers tends to go up as the quality goes up, so you're right it's not milion.

 

[archangelmorph]

XBLA does not come close to costing a million to publish on. That is the point of XBLA, to massively reduce the costs of publishing certain types of games. There is no packaging, distribution, or support to worry about.

It was a joke & I was talking generally..

I would think a developer with high ambitions, would borrow/find investors rather than rely on being found by some publisher, which will then only give them a small cut.

Depends on where/who you are.. Do you think someone like Silva could have found private investment for a game like DishWasher without established credentials..?
I'm not sure ambition is all it takes to reach this point..

I don't see the community allowing commerce as being a good thing, it would stifle it. If you want the options to sell something in the future, do as Shift says and put up a limited build and then gauge whether there is enough demand to continue on.

I'd considered this.. I guess I'm just a little miffed at the idea that immediate profit isn't so readily accessible in the way that I initially/naively expected it to be.. I guess I understand why & it makes sense too..

So you honestly think Microsoft taking money for games that haven't gone through any QA (that they know of) and passed their cert process is a good thing?

I've been through certification processes before & it's a common criticism that MS's is specifically long(er).. I haven't been through it myself so I can't compare accurately however from what i've heard it doesn't prove strange that it takes them so long to do what other platform holders can do far quicker..

 

[rbushner]

I think some people are seriously underestimating what Microsoft is exposing itself to if it allows community games to be bought for points. I don't see it feasible for the hundreds or thousands of community members to be bound under contracts that would be necessary to protect Microsoft.

What if your game infringes patents?
What if your game infringes copyrights?
What if your game stops working?

I could keep going, but those questions have completely different answers for freely download content versus something Microsoft made money off of. Free content would get removed once a violation was found. But what if Microsoft netted hundreds of thousands of dollars off of a game that has a violation like one of these?