New trailer for Wardevil
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BTOA said:
I'm not expecting miracles from either system at this point.
Considering the reality that is now washing away the stink of E3 hype (from both systems) I don't expect Next Gen to start in force until late 2006 when some Devs really get their hands dirty with these systems' real capabilities.
Until then I will enjoy what I get, appreciate the higher rez and AA and fancy HDR and lighting effects and hope 3-4 quality games hold me over until then. Which I do not doubt will happen as I am 3-5 game /year gamer anyway, I'm a cherry picker.
edit for stupid spelling
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NO HDR
http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fc1.jpg
SAME IMAGE W/ OPENEXR HDR
http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fc1hd.jpg
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NO HDR
http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fc2.jpg
SAME IMAGE W/ OPENEXR HDR
http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fc2hd.jpg
NO HDR
http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fc8.jpg
SAME IMAGE W/ OPENEXR HDR
http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fc8hd.jpg
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NO HDR
http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fc9.jpg
SAME IMAGE W/ OPENEXR HDR
http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fc9hd.jpg
As you can see hdr makes a huge improvement on lighting . Sadly the 6800s were to slow to use it in game however the g70 now allows you to use it often .
The xenos can do this + fsaa at the same time where as the x800s in the alpha kits couldn't do any hdr . So when we start seeing beta kit shots things can greatly change
BTOA said:
That is the thing . Ms is showing us games . Bandi showed us render targets . People have played gears of war . people have never played the gundam demo. So we know we will ahve gow graphics on the xbox 360 in march. We know we will have pgr and full auto graphics on the xbox 360 in november .
We do not know what we will have at launch for the ps3 . Since with the exception of unreal 2k7 and fight night we don't know how actual games perform on the system nor at what graphics they will look like .
Megadrive1988
Veteran
Tap In said:I'm not expecting miracles from either system at this point.
Considering the reality that is now washing away the stink of E3 hype (from both systems) I don't expect Next Gen to start in force until late 2006 when some Devs really get their hands dirty with these systems' real capabilities.
Until then I will enjoy what I get, appreciate the higher rez and AA and fancy HDR and lighting effects and hope 3-4 quality games hold me over until then. Which I do not doubt will happen as I am 3-5 game /year gamer anyway, I'm a cherry picker.
that's right, I don't expect miracles either. but we will see what these machines can really do during 2007 after developers have had a solid year+ with final hardware, and 2nd gen games start to come out.
the real miracles will happen with the next-next gen, when Sony and Microsoft will be forced to move on to new types of controller interfaces for the player (once they see the merits of Nintendo Revolution) but also combined with graphics that are VERY close to high-quality CGI that we see in game intros & cutscenes. that's when the real party will begin, hehe
MS showing games that are graphically underwhelming is your call that next gen is here? The E3 stuff looked like high res xbox games, but with more glossing. GoW is running UE3 and we know that current PS3 SDK can do UE3. So if Sony had a UE3 game up and running, you would probably be satisfied too.jvd said:
PS3 isn't launching till later next year and is already showing better looking games with their early build.
Under whelming to what ? Gow and pgr 3 are under whelming to what ? Please tell me .
yup i am satisfied because i know its something that epic will actually hit . Not some render target that might not ever be hit .
Ps3 is launching in about 8 months . xbox 360 is launching in 4 months .
Ps3 so far has yet to show any better looking games They have yet to show any playable anything to anyone . They have just shown off videos . SOme of games running at 5fps and speed up through post processing , some cgi . They have yet to show games .
People
1-HDR |= good lightning (but it helps)
2-X800 can do a diferent (weaker) kind of HDR not fpHDR (you can even see in a video from PDZ here it says HDR enable on alpha kits, althoug I dont remember the name of the mode of this HDR, and it is not made by shaders)
3- Sony kits are much more close from final HW (features/perfrmance wise) than MS ones
4-even it beta kits dev cant do miracles in 1-1,2 months (but I hope they can do in 5-6 )
6-even PS3 "real" demos had their work made with much more advanced kits
7- it is no sence compare both thingsgames by now, we dont saw any proper videos or know in deph the consoles
I am (at least trying) not defending none, both all this talk as no meaning you cant see the power of one machine by the lightning of their games (maybe the power of dev ), put Q3 on ps3 and XB becomes better?Just like saing that the animation of GoW looks bad because XB is weak, and it is a game from a dev kit with at least ~9 months till be released.
We should wait for, at least, a game using XB full power to compare to PS3 demos.
There is no way to make a fair comparition, unless you want to pick games like RE5 which look equal in both presentations, but then you cant argue .
1-HDR |= good lightning (but it helps)
2-X800 can do a diferent (weaker) kind of HDR not fpHDR (you can even see in a video from PDZ here it says HDR enable on alpha kits, althoug I dont remember the name of the mode of this HDR, and it is not made by shaders)
3- Sony kits are much more close from final HW (features/perfrmance wise) than MS ones
4-even it beta kits dev cant do miracles in 1-1,2 months (but I hope they can do in 5-6
)6-even PS3 "real" demos had their work made with much more advanced kits
7- it is no sence compare both thingsgames by now, we dont saw any proper videos or know in deph the consoles
I am (at least trying) not defending none, both all this talk as no meaning you cant see the power of one machine by the lightning of their games (maybe the power of dev
), put Q3 on ps3 and XB becomes better?Just like saing that the animation of GoW looks bad because XB is weak, and it is a game from a dev kit with at least ~9 months till be released.We should wait for, at least, a game using XB full power to compare to PS3 demos.
There is no way to make a fair comparition, unless you want to pick games like RE5 which look equal in both presentations, but then you cant argue
.
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scooby_dooby
Legend
"MS showing games that are graphically underwhelming is your call that next gen is here? The E3 stuff looked like high res xbox games, but with more glossing. GoW is running UE3 and we know that current PS3 SDK can do UE3. So if Sony had a UE3 game up and running, you would probably be satisfied too.
PS3 isn't launching till later next year and is already showing better looking games with their early build."
If your expectations are for first generaton titles to look like CGI rendered movies, than ya it's pretty underwhelming.
if you are realistic and realize miracles don't happen overnight, then GOW, PGR3, Ghost recon 3, Oblivion etc all look pretty damn impressive.
i don't understand your UE3 comment, for one thing the gfx can vary widely using that engine, as show by frame city killers. 2ndly, that the entire point, PS3 HAS NO games up and running, so we have nothing to look at and really compare. PS3 is not showing better games, it's showing NO games.
You guys are comparing CGI to real games, not really fair.
And for the record, the in-game gundam video, from behind the player looked NOWHERE near as good as the CGI clip they showed at e3. the character model was pretty good, but everything else was way less impressive than the E3 footage.
PS3 isn't launching till later next year and is already showing better looking games with their early build."
If your expectations are for first generaton titles to look like CGI rendered movies, than ya it's pretty underwhelming.
if you are realistic and realize miracles don't happen overnight, then GOW, PGR3, Ghost recon 3, Oblivion etc all look pretty damn impressive.
i don't understand your UE3 comment, for one thing the gfx can vary widely using that engine, as show by frame city killers. 2ndly, that the entire point, PS3 HAS NO games up and running, so we have nothing to look at and really compare. PS3 is not showing better games, it's showing NO games.
You guys are comparing CGI to real games, not really fair.
And for the record, the in-game gundam video, from behind the player looked NOWHERE near as good as the CGI clip they showed at e3. the character model was pretty good, but everything else was way less impressive than the E3 footage.
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your right . But look at my pictures and see the jumps just by turning on hdr . Now games designed from the ground up with hdr in mind will look much better
x800 can't do real hdr . I believe the x800 way of doing it is by interger and it then lowers it self to the int out format . It wont look as good .
I also don't know whta pdz video your talking about . If you can show me let me know
Your right which is what i have been saying .
I'm wary of sony . I look back at the e3 before the ps3 launched and I remember all the demos they showed off . How great they were and then we got things like japanese teken tag which looked worse than soul caliber .
I perfer to look at actual games that people can play because at least then I know what to expect for launch and I know I will be playing that from day one . Render targets are fine for what might happen in the future . But for launch they are a very bad metric for performance
jvd said:
Thanks somehow I did not notice you links, and you are also right but a lot of people still thinks that HDR=shinig and blom etc...
It is that from what I am talking, that is not real HDR just some trick or something
PDZ: there as soe place the PDZ only vido, but you can see http://www.rarenet.com/wiki/index.php?title=Perfect_Dark_Zero#Media although it start it XB360 launch video (at least I think it is this one , I have not time check now), please tell me if it is not.
If they hadnt burn so much people with PS2 they would own this E3, and even I which beleive that both consoles should be able to do that , prefer they would show real games once that I want to know what I will play in day one, not near of the end of the consoles.
It sas hdr enbled only on the single chars . Nothing else is on screen so they may jsut be using the shaders to do hdr or it may be emulated in software .
I don't see devs using hdr on the alpha kits . Now that they have beta kits i will say at the end of sept early october alot of the stuff we see will have hdr on .
That is what i perfer . Even if the very last game of the generation hits killzone image quality i still wont care. 5-6 years from now doesn't interest me right now . Right now end of 05' and the start of 06' interest me
mckmas8808
Legend
jvd said:
OMG here we go again. Another person with bad memory. Let me help you with that. I have to prove you wrong. Ahhh well lets do it.
GT demo in 1999 (Wait a couple of seconds to see it)
http://www.irradiance.net/Animation/GameDemo/PlayStation2/Demo/2.mpghttp://membres.lycos.fr/newconsoles/images/photos/playgt3.jpg
GT3
http://ps2movies.ign.com/media/previews/video/gt3japan/gt3_10.mov?wu=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.ps2.ign.com%2Fmedia%2F013%2F013846%2Fvid_219858.html%3Fmu%3D%3CURL%2F%3E
Tekken demo in 1999
http://ps2movies.ign.com/media/news/video/tekken/ps2tekken.mpg
Tekken Tag in 2000
http://ps2movies.ign.com/media/previews/video/ttt/ttt19.mov?wu=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.ps2.ign.com%2Fmedia%2F013%2F013946%2Fvid_184088.html%3Fmu%3D%3CURL%2F%3E
Yes, FP16 does make games have that CGI feel.scooby_dooby said:
I expect most if not all next gen games to look and feel like these new FP16 enginethat have this CGI feel to them. Frame City Killer doesn't even look impressive as Huxley, which is running off the UE3. Frame City Killer isn't showing off anything impressive with the UE3.
The Gundam demo being shown at Sony's summer meeting was a representation of the game engine. So in a sense its showing what the game is capable of doing at the time shown and the Gundam E3 clip was somewhat of a remake of the PS2 Gundam: Journey To Jaburo intro.
BTOA said:
Who is an xbox fan ? i only own a dreamcast and a gamecube (which nintendo showed the zelda cgi at spaceworld is just as bad )
The point is this time ms has cleaned up its act and is showing games that people havep layed. Sony has not cleaned up its act.
The only demo you can really claim they are showing off is the ruby one and that is really ati showing it off .
jvd said:
Sony has not cleaned up its act? Okay, you need to rewatch these videos again.mckmas8808 said:
So MS is showing off next gen graphics with supped up xbox engine at E3 qualified MS as showing off next gen games. Yea, MS real cleaned up their acts by showing supped up xbox games just like how Sony showed off GT2 supped up as a next gen PS2 game.jvd said:
Your expectation of next gen is no more then supped up version of current xbox graphics as a starting point, while I expect UE3 as the next gen wave of graphics.
You would think mckmass would learn to read and that you wouldn't follow his mistakes . That video is from the american launch. 8 months after the japanese launch .
THe version that launched looked worse then the demo even though it had another 8 months to improve .
Now lets not forget about old man , namco girl and a slew of other demos
Sigh in your attempt to troll you make mistakes .
This is a launch there will be shovel ware . However full auto , pgr3 , gow , prey , oblivion and others have been played by people in the press and reported on . If your going to sit there and tell me none of those are next gen graphics then please just tell me now so i can send u to my ignore list because i grow tired quickly of dealing with trolls .
Whats ironic is that ms is able to show off gow in playable form even though it doesn't launch till march or later yet sony who is launching a system around march has no playable games ? Hmmm interesting .
Well then u better not look at this ps3 game
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614806/fifth-phantom-saga-20050516074346890.jpg because it looks like doom3 for xbox with bloom and at 720p
You sir are ignorant. If you cannot see the advancements of the PS2 then their is no need to argue. I'm done with this thread and you.jvd said:
BTW, you must think this Xbox 360 game is next gen too.
ride the hype
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