New MGS4 trailer at Sony Keynote (July 11th)

[Arwin]

Anyone check out the MGS4 gameplay trailers on www.gametrailers.com ?

The graphics look good but, damn the enemy AI seams really weak and stiff.

The game tends to have pretty good difficulty levels. MGS2 started off with a few questions to determine which level you should play and if you should get to see the ship section or not. Quite interesting approach that was.

Anyway, as far as I remember if you set MGS at the highest difficulty level, the AI really was very, very tough. If they'd spot or hear you (and they'd spot you very soon) they'd radio in for backup almost immediately, and very big and thorough search parties typically would find you.

But, it is also very much a game. Depending on the difficulty level you'll know that some places to hide will work or not, they'll spot you from a certain fixed distance, etc.

Don't know how it will be for MGS4, but don't dismiss what you see too easily.

 

[psorcerer]

Anyone check out the MGS4 gameplay trailers on www.gametrailers.com ?

The graphics look good but, damn the enemy AI seams really weak and stiff.

It's because of low difficulty level.
Like in previous games you can very well kill everybody not hiding at all if you set it to Easy.

 

[xatnys]

Why so low though? If I were presenting a game I'd at least have the AI be somewhat formidable.

It's not as though a bunch of casuals are attending TGS; those trying out MGS4 will probably be mostly fans even.

 

[psorcerer]

Why so low though? If I were presenting a game I'd at least have the AI be somewhat formidable.

It was not a presentation but a booth for regular people.

It's not as though a bunch of casuals are attending TGS; those trying out MGS4 will probably be mostly fans even.

You're wrong, there are a lot of people in there.
Don't forget that it's just a shaky cam from somebody who wasn't even playing.

 

[Crayon]

Amazing. I love it. My anticipation for this game is unmatched.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It was not a presentation but a booth for regular people.

If that's so, they ought to have clearly marked, easy and hard booths. Only showing one mode is going to alienate one or other 'sissy' or 'wellard' gamers.

 

[Arwin]

Hopefully only really those who have never encountered an MGS game before though.

 

[Rangers]

The graphics in the new videos are not impressive. It looks about like GRAW 1 on 360.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/262/926596_20070920_screen007.jpg

Especially once the 32xAA BS filter from the pr shots is removed.

 

[wowfactor]

The graphics in the new videos are not impressive. It looks about like GRAW 1 on 360.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/262/926596_20070920_screen007.jpg

Especially once the 32xAA BS filter from the pr shots is removed.

Show me which video? and show me a picture that show aliasing?
I see zero aliasing in either offscreen captures or in the videos.

 

[Neb]

The graphics in the new videos are not impressive. It looks about like GRAW 1 on 360.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/262/926596_20070920_screen007.jpg

Especially once the 32xAA BS filter from the pr shots is removed.

There is a gameplay video at gametrailers from TGS that shows ingame play. While having nice colors that fit the scene and makes everything come together there seemed to be a lack of AA.

 

[betan]

The graphics in the new videos are not impressive. It looks about like GRAW 1 on 360.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/262/926596_20070920_screen007.jpg

Especially once the 32xAA BS filter from the pr shots is removed.

Haven't check the video, but are you complaining about jaggies?

My only problem with the graphics is the perfectly flat ground in a war zone. Needs more geometry and some form of bumpmapping.

Same goes for sandbags too. Next gen sandbags have been disappointing so far, save Sega's new cel shaded game.

 

[wowfactor]

Please don't be confused between AA of objects and AA of the shadows.
As far as I remember no-one has ever done perfect dynamic shadows with zero jaggies.

 

[Neb]

Please don't be confused between AA of objects and AA of the shadows.

It may have selective AA and I am not talking about shadows. thepower lines, some objects at distance etc, seen in the latest 2 HD videos at gametrailers.

As far as I remember no-one has ever done perfect dynamic shadows with zero jaggies

Crysis has pretty much perfect (jaggy free) dynamic shadows (as seen in videos and ss), I know becouse I have the beta!

 

[wowfactor]

which videos? the latest videos was metal gear online game. I didn't see any power lines in it. The videos have zero jaggies on all objects.

Edit: I found the videos you were talking about
I saw just a little bit of jaggies though.
Here is the ss I took from the video
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8776/metalgearpowerlinesbr0.jpg

 

[Neb]

which videos? the latest videos was metal gear online game. I didn't see any power lines in it. The videos have zero jaggies on all objects.

Edit: I found the videos you were talking about
I saw just a little bit of jaggies though.
Here is the ss I took from the video
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8776/metalgearpowerlinesbr0.jpg

Youre screenshot is completly worthless, is it from the SD video or has a blur filter been applied?

Here are 2 screenshots from the HD video to show the power lines and the pillars in the middle (second ss).
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/MGS4sAA1.png
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/MGS4sAA2.png

 

[betan]

Youre screenshot is completly worthless, is it from the SD video or has a blur filter been applied?

Here are 2 screenshots from the HD video to show the power lines and the pillars in the middle (second ss).
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/MGS4sAA1.png
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/MGS4sAA2.png

I think the real AA is nothing more than 2xAA but ghosting and postprocessing effects make it very hard to notice jaggies.

Edit: Nebula, I went back and checked the direct feed gameplay footage from E3 and those aliasing jaggies and pixelation seems to be camera's doing. Still jaggies are visible time to time, and they need a better rendering method for power lines.

 

[Phil]

If that's so, they ought to have clearly marked, easy and hard booths. Only showing one mode is going to alienate one or other 'sissy' or 'wellard' gamers.

I don't think they ever did that, even for MGS2 or MGS3 for that matter. Even easy-mode is very enjoyable - lets the non MGS gamer find out quite nicely how he likes to play the game, use different approaches to the game to "play with the AI".

Even normal-mode (though still quite easy) is quite difficult for someone who hasn't played a MGS game before.

 

[wowfactor]

Youre screenshot is completly worthless, is it from the SD video or has a blur filter been applied?

Here are 2 screenshots from the HD video to show the power lines and the pillars in the middle (second ss).
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/MGS4sAA1.png
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/MGS4sAA2.png

My screenshots were from a HD version (to touchup, got it straight from mp4 version). The power lines have at least 2xAA, all other objects look like they have at least 4xAA.
If you pay attention to video you can see that the jaggies are only visible when the camera moved quickly. So what they do is they reduce the AA when the camera moves quickly. Just like in Lost Planet but better because in Lost Planet they reduced the AA (to zero AA) for all objects but in MGS4 they reduced the AA (to 2xAA) just for unimportant ones (like power lines).

Applying AA to power lines is very difficult. Take Resistance as an example, many people have claimed that Resistance has the best AA in the business yet the power lines look worse than this. (Gears, Forza 2 have the worst power lines as for next gen games).

 

[Neb]

My screenshots were from a HD version (to touchup, got it straight from mp4 version). The power lines have at least 2xAA, all other objects look like they have at least 4xAA.

Look at the lines and the thin pillars in the middle background, looks like no AA (zoom in in a image editor to see the steps).

If you pay attention to video you can see that the jaggies are only visible when the camera moved quickly. So what they do is they reduce the AA when the camera moves quickly.

The jaggies are still visible when the camera movement is still (short seconds in the videos). THe HD and SD videos are not of special quality but this is very obvious in these videos. :smile:

I think the real AA is nothing more than 2xAA but ghosting and postprocessing effects make it very hard to notice jaggies.

Edit: Nebula, I went back and checked the direct feed gameplay footage from E3 and those aliasing jaggies and pixelation seems to be camera's doing. Still jaggies are visible time to time, and they need a better rendering method for power lines.

The jaggies on the powerlines and the pillars in the background is not from the video quality IMO. But the pixelation around characters and some edges, like the shimmering balcony rail certainly is. Maybe more can be seen in soon to come videos of MGS4 but still 1080p and 2xAA for almost everything is good.
Still would be the cream on top of the cake if the powerlines and the pillars/(similar objects without AA) has AA. And vsync on would be the cherry on top!

 

[ihamoitc2005]

questions

The jaggies on the powerlines and the pillars in the background is not from the video quality IMO. But the pixelation around characters and some edges, like the shimmering balcony rail certainly is. Maybe more can be seen in soon to come videos of MGS4 but still 1080p and 2xAA for almost everything is good.
Still would be the cream on top of the cake if the powerlines and the pillars/(similar objects without AA) has AA. And vsync on would be the cherry on top!

What is resolution and framerate for MGS4? Is it 1080P official? Also if what is the frame-rate? thanks Also is there an FPS view for this game?