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“PS3.5″? – New Sony Patent
- Thread starter ManuVlad3.0
- Start date
yes, it's not that insanely expensive, my retail spurscard was 200$ at the time it came out (WinFast® PxVC1100 ). and a lot of TVs have cell chips (there are some server where you can download their software sources due to gpl). they are used for motion estimation.
I would say that hardware has no memory, otherwise it would be quite some overhead to keep it coherent. It's rather just using the local store (which is not coherent by design) and DMAs between the PS3 mem and local store.
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Huh ? A lot of TV use Cell/SpursEngine chip ? Which TV models besides the Toshiba Cell TV ?
If they have some memory on the module, PS3 should handle multitasking better (e.g., in-game XMB or in-game Home can be faster, PlayTV/Tourne can be more sophisticated). How much as 512Mb RAM these days ? They can be mapped to the same global memory space and update by the PPU and the remote SPUs only.
If I may ask, what do you use your WinFast for ?
If they have some memory on the module, PS3 should handle multitasking better (e.g., in-game XMB or in-game Home can be faster, PlayTV/Tourne can be more sophisticated). How much as 512Mb RAM these days ? They can be mapped to the same global memory space and update by the PPU and the remote SPUs only.
If I may ask, what do you use your WinFast for ?
Thought about it some more. I like the idea more and more. It's probably the most significant development, if possible.
I'd love to have RAM on the module (instead of just the 4 SPUs) because we can use the memory for many purposes:
* Allow Home (and of course, XMB) to run in-game and quickly together with games *and* Blu-ray movies.
* Allow PlayTV/Tourne DVR to be full featured and also run in parallel with games and BR movies.
* Allow _complete_ home-brew if the module can be sandboxed safely via hardware design (No way for module to get to PS3). No hacking needed.
* Allow PSEye or 3D PSEye to plug into the module. Enhance capabilities without affecting performance on existing PS3 games.
* Allow deeper image/media analysis for assorted nextgen applications. The Toshiba "magic mirror" demo requires 2 Cells to run. If the added modules allow me to run the magic mirror app, I may buy more ! ^_^
DO IT ! But make sure we have jaw dropping experience/apps.
I'd love to have RAM on the module (instead of just the 4 SPUs) because we can use the memory for many purposes:
* Allow Home (and of course, XMB) to run in-game and quickly together with games *and* Blu-ray movies.
* Allow PlayTV/Tourne DVR to be full featured and also run in parallel with games and BR movies.
* Allow _complete_ home-brew if the module can be sandboxed safely via hardware design (No way for module to get to PS3). No hacking needed.
* Allow PSEye or 3D PSEye to plug into the module. Enhance capabilities without affecting performance on existing PS3 games.
* Allow deeper image/media analysis for assorted nextgen applications. The Toshiba "magic mirror" demo requires 2 Cells to run. If the added modules allow me to run the magic mirror app, I may buy more ! ^_^
DO IT ! But make sure we have jaw dropping experience/apps.
Oh I remember the jokes all right, and when I remember the actual speeches where he bragged that the PS3 would "age your video content like a fine wine," I don't think they're unwarranted either.
Yap, the George Foreman grill and Cell toaster ! ^_^
The actual quote was:
http://xenosparadox.blogspot.com/2005/05/playstation-3-folks-your-dvd-library.html
Aging = Upscaling/upconversion and noise reduction. ^_^
They are now done on-the-fly (by Cell and other hardware). No need to wait for it to age anymore.
[size=-2]How far technologies have advanced ![/size]
The Cell storage service is nowhere to be found (fortunately). A cloud storage -- Cell or no Cell -- to save my game saves may make more sense.
Oh I remember the jokes all right, and when I remember the actual speeches where he bragged that the PS3 would "age your video content like a fine wine," I don't think they're unwarranted either.
The actual quote was:
http://xenosparadox.blogspot.com/2005/05/playstation-3-folks-your-dvd-library.html
Aging = Upscaling/upconversion and noise reduction. ^_^
They are now done on-the-fly (by Cell and other hardware). No need to wait for it to age anymore.
[size=-2]How far technologies have advanced ![/size]
The Cell storage service is nowhere to be found (fortunately). A cloud storage -- Cell or no Cell -- to save my game saves may make more sense.
this got me thinking maybe this is Sony's way of releasing the PS3 that they wanted to bring out in the 1st place
adding 2 HDMI outputs/inputs & 3 Ethernet ports
right now would be the perfect time to release the HD IP Camera & if it's running to the external Cell box the games wouldn't take a hit & we can video chat with people in HD while playing games
& with the HDMI
adding 2 HDMI outputs/inputs & 3 Ethernet ports
right now would be the perfect time to release the HD IP Camera & if it's running to the external Cell box the games wouldn't take a hit & we can video chat with people in HD while playing games
& with the HDMI
You mean MB, right? Because Mb means Megabit...
this got me thinking maybe this is Sony's way of releasing the PS3 that they wanted to bring out in the 1st place
adding 2 HDMI outputs/inputs & 3 Ethernet ports
right now would be the perfect time to release the HD IP Camera & if it's running to the external Cell box the games wouldn't take a hit & we can video chat with people in HD while playing games
& with the HDMI
Would be cool if they use stereoscopic 3D camera + IR, but keep the camera small.
If they have enough CPU power, the camera will be very very useful.
yep I would love to see what a HD 3D high frame rate camera could do with a dedicated Cell CPU,
I'm thinking Kung Fu Live in 3D with even more super moves because it can read your hand movements even better for a street fighter like gameplay with fire balls & spinning uppercuts on demand,
maybe even dress you up like the people from Street Fighter / Motal Kombat in realtime.
Ha ha, it's speculative. So we should dial back the excitement. The patent has some overhead in packing the structures at various levels. I am not sure if it'll be as efficient as rapso mentioned. It's part of the reason I feel the module should have its own shared memory to keep independent data (No/minimize need for coherency, or data exchange).
I wonder, was the SpursEngine project even profitable for those involved?
I doubt it. There was no application to generate demand *unless* what rapso mentioned is true.
It would be a different scenario if Sony does this module though. Sony now has LUA, Python, Java and WebKit running on Cell. If scripters can write simple Cell programs to use camera and motion sensors easily, we will see very interesting applications, not just tech demoes. Sony can set up an ecosystem like an AppStore/Minis/Home apps to distribute them for Playstation Network (or Sony Online Services).
The first project I would go for is PS Home -- assuming it can run in a separate memory space in the module. Because of its Internet friendly and XML-driven architecture, I'd love to see people convert their websites into a Home Space (on the fly by generating the right XMLs). I'd also decouple Home Spaces from Home Items/Gaming so that these websites can promote other Home games/items in their Spaces. Heck, I'll rig Google search result to return Home Spaces too. ^_^
These generated Home Spaces don't have to follow the laws of physics. It should be perfectly fine to search and navigate in a logical space of relevance, popularity, content types, user demographies, etc. in Home. That's why I feel PS Home should be applicable in a 2D world too. The Home avatars only help to accentuate the community. This should give Sony a P2P way to do their own FaceBook effect (especially since Home is LUA-based and should be portable across platforms; or portable to JavaScript). I am sick of FaceBook alerts personally. Consumers should be in charge of their privacy and not the website owner. Start with the 17 million Home users first.
EDIT: Besides, there were companies using Cell for real projects before Sony killed PS3 Linux.
MS just spent half a B on marketing camera-based apps which should be Cell's strong suit.
And core gamers are crying for more graphics improvements.
Plus accessories like PlayTV/Tourne and 3D Blu-ray hitting bottlenecks (e.g., Tourne can't run in parallel with Blu-ray today).
It would be a different scenario if Sony does this module though. Sony now has LUA, Python, Java and WebKit running on Cell. If scripters can write simple Cell programs to use camera and motion sensors easily, we will see very interesting applications, not just tech demoes. Sony can set up an ecosystem like an AppStore/Minis/Home apps to distribute them for Playstation Network (or Sony Online Services).
The first project I would go for is PS Home -- assuming it can run in a separate memory space in the module. Because of its Internet friendly and XML-driven architecture, I'd love to see people convert their websites into a Home Space (on the fly by generating the right XMLs). I'd also decouple Home Spaces from Home Items/Gaming so that these websites can promote other Home games/items in their Spaces. Heck, I'll rig Google search result to return Home Spaces too. ^_^
These generated Home Spaces don't have to follow the laws of physics. It should be perfectly fine to search and navigate in a logical space of relevance, popularity, content types, user demographies, etc. in Home. That's why I feel PS Home should be applicable in a 2D world too. The Home avatars only help to accentuate the community. This should give Sony a P2P way to do their own FaceBook effect (especially since Home is LUA-based and should be portable across platforms; or portable to JavaScript). I am sick of FaceBook alerts personally. Consumers should be in charge of their privacy and not the website owner. Start with the 17 million Home users first.
EDIT: Besides, there were companies using Cell for real projects before Sony killed PS3 Linux.
MS just spent half a B on marketing camera-based apps which should be Cell's strong suit.
And core gamers are crying for more graphics improvements.
Plus accessories like PlayTV/Tourne and 3D Blu-ray hitting bottlenecks (e.g., Tourne can't run in parallel with Blu-ray today).
ShadowRunner
Veteran
Not that is much to do with this, but i would love for an addon that enables uncomprimised 3D. Have a new 3DTV on the way and im already hating the idea of having 3D enabled being a sacriffice. Will i be missing out on the full experience if i enable 3d in uncarted for instance. I want either a PS3D that is exactly the same as PS3 but allows uncomrimised 3d at 720p60, or some sort of addon.
a friend of mine showed me the server where he was downloading the sources, that was at a time the PS3 wasn't released yet ( just about to be released) and there were a lot of directories of TVs (cryptic TVs name-numbers, as they usually have) with sources and he showed me quite some of them and every single one had some cell target in the makefile. (I don't say they have spursengines, rather cell chips I'd guess). He is quite a linux freak, so I just blindly believe him, I didn't care at that time bout this at all, as it didn't seem smart to put a cell into a TV. (I think there were no 200hz TVs at that time that would need any processing power).
but to have a better estimate of the cost for a cell or spursengine:
http://www.qj.net/qjnet/playstation-3/isuppli-sony-close-to-breaking-even-with-ps3-slim.html
$37.73 and that was a year ago.
It should be also noted that those 4 processing units were just for illustration, the external addon might have far less or far more.
I also think that the spursengine is some Toshiba product and not really accessible by Sony (although they started this joint venture, I think they're not really 'friends' anymore). I think the "ppu" -ip is hold completely by IBM. So if sony would need to develop something new, they have the freedom to do it in whatever way they want. btw. the 1.6GHz spursengine card was taking 20W if I remember right, dunno if that's too much for an external device (or you'll need cooling etc.)
I would think it's also quite possible that they release some devices with SPUs included and those SPUs can execute custom software. But in contrast to usual "flashing" with drivers, they could dynamically execute some user-space binaries that would have seamless access to memory.
Sony might also have quite some not-usable cells, maybe ones that don't reach 3.2Ghz or with enough working SPUs. recycling them like intel did with celerons might be like free candy. (The spursengine had 4 clocking levels if I remember correct, lowest level was 400MHz I think, the doc is public available in the toshiba spursengine sdk )
but to have a better estimate of the cost for a cell or spursengine:
http://www.qj.net/qjnet/playstation-3/isuppli-sony-close-to-breaking-even-with-ps3-slim.html
$37.73 and that was a year ago.
It should be also noted that those 4 processing units were just for illustration, the external addon might have far less or far more.
I also think that the spursengine is some Toshiba product and not really accessible by Sony (although they started this joint venture, I think they're not really 'friends' anymore). I think the "ppu" -ip is hold completely by IBM. So if sony would need to develop something new, they have the freedom to do it in whatever way they want. btw. the 1.6GHz spursengine card was taking 20W if I remember right, dunno if that's too much for an external device (or you'll need cooling etc.)
I would think it's also quite possible that they release some devices with SPUs included and those SPUs can execute custom software. But in contrast to usual "flashing" with drivers, they could dynamically execute some user-space binaries that would have seamless access to memory.
Sony might also have quite some not-usable cells, maybe ones that don't reach 3.2Ghz or with enough working SPUs. recycling them like intel did with celerons might be like free candy. (The spursengine had 4 clocking levels if I remember correct, lowest level was 400MHz I think, the doc is public available in the toshiba spursengine sdk
)more cpu power won't make rendering that much fast I'd say, eh? so either games support full quality 3d or it won't be solved by an external unit (unless it includes an rsx I guess).
May be they used the "broken" Cells since yield was lower initially. Hard to believe. Would be great if you can confirm with your friend about the latest status. ^_^
More memory (+ SPUs) will be useful. Sometimes, you have to trade time for space. If you have more space, then you have more leeway, like use space hogging (time saving) techniques.
More SPUs probably don't buy as much now or in earlier games since I don't think they max out the SPUs yet. May be for isolated tasks like PSEye tracking. Even so, I believe Kazunori Yamauchi mentioned that head tracking is turned off in GT mode because of memory issues. The rumored HD PSEye will burden the Cell and memory subsystem more. Then this module will definitely make sense.
what rumored HD PSEYE?
Ha ha, don't worry about it. It's bits and pieces of info spread across a few years. It may not exist at all.
But a HD PSEye would force them to take this step coz I don't think PS3 can handle one with a full fledge game, even if it goes through the gigabit port.
I know what I would call the module *IF* (IF !!!!) Sony is indeed working on one. I'd coin a female name as its codename. e.g., "Playstation/Sony Eve". No need for superlatives (Music Unlimited !!1!!!!) or funny spellings or big numbers.
But a HD PSEye would force them to take this step coz I don't think PS3 can handle one with a full fledge game, even if it goes through the gigabit port.
I know what I would call the module *IF* (IF !!!!) Sony is indeed working on one. I'd coin a female name as its codename. e.g., "Playstation/Sony Eve". No need for superlatives (Music Unlimited !!1!!!!) or funny spellings or big numbers.
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