New Lair pics

[mckmas8808]

Well it looks good. probably 80,000 polygons. About the same amount as a PGR3 car......of course PGR3 is also rendering a city, people, stands, wires, road, ect.....but we have yet to see a gameplay of lair

I wonder if they will have a 1,000-5,000 foot soldiers ready to be scorched?(Kameo is a good example)

Need some gameplay footage.

Nope try 100,000 - 120,000 polygons. Factor 5 said it themselves.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Unfortunately I have some doubts about this new, good looking image... the lighting is very, very different from all the other images that we know are realtime because of the AA and filtering artifacts. This one has no hard-edged shadows, no overbright speculars, all in all looks a bit like a CG render to me.
I might be wrong though; but how could two ingame shots released at the same time look so different?

 

[mckmas8808]

but how could two ingame shots released at the same time look so different?

You don't know Sony do you?

They did the samething to all of their games on their website.

 

[joebloggs]

Nope try 100,000 - 120,000 polygons. Factor 5 said it themselves.

I think it was actually 170,000.

 

[Arwin]

Actually, this picture might not be the best example. In CON you can use the left analog stick to rotate the camera any way you want it at any time, the game is 3rd person by default, and you even have 3 levels of zoom at which you can play the game (high above the camera to close above the player). The HUD is very space efficient and located at the top, and the image you selected doesn't show it. That also may make it look even more zoomed in than it is now, by just cutting the picture - judging from the resolution, that's exactly what happened, as the game looks better than this.

Having said that, HUD-less play or optional HUDs are all the rage, and are getting more and more standard. To give but one example (apart from the 'hey look how smart we are we reinvented something and you journalists lap it up' use of it in King Kong TOFGOTM ), if I remember correctly the whole Jak & Daxter series supported this from the first right up to PSP Daxter.

I'm willing to bet that you can play both Lair and Restistance sans-HUD (but certainly the latter). Never mind that dev-shot options are a totally possible idea, you guys just don't play enough games to know what you are talking about. (just teasing ya)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Actually, this picture might not be the best example. In CON you can use the left analog stick to rotate the camera any way you want it at any time, the game is 3rd person by default, and you even have 3 levels of zoom at which you can play the game (high above the camera to close above the player). The HUD is very space efficient and located at the top, and the image you selected doesn't show it. That also may make it look even more zoomed in than it is now, by just cutting the picture - judging from the resolution, that's exactly what happened, as the game looks better than this.

You have no idea how much I have played that game and know exactly the camera, HUD, graphics etc. look! This was a promo shot and the devs have gone on record as saying CON's promo shots were victims of 'artistic licensing' in their presentation, but the engine was the same even if the camera angles and zoom weren't anything the player could experience.

 

[Arwin]

You have no idea how much I have played that game and know exactly the camera, HUD, graphics etc. look! This was a promo shot and the devs have gone on record as saying CON's promo shots were victims of 'artistic licensing' in their presentation, but the engine was the same even if the camera angles and zoom weren't anything the player could experience.

In these cases it's not the dev's who are the creative licencers though, but the marketing people ... This could be interpreted as the dev's not taking responsibility for what the marketing people do with what the devs give them. Are you really sure? This shot looks like it is a cut-out, and I've seen that happen so incredibly often ... . I have the game lying around, so when I get back from work I may have a look.

 

[rabidrabbit]

You don't know Sony do you?

They did the samething to all of their games on their website.

Except, this is Factor 5, not Sony.
Or is Factor 5 now a Sony 1st or 2nd party?

 

[ZiFF]

Except, this is Factor 5, not Sony.
Or is Factor 5 now a Sony 1st or 2nd party?

2nd party. They have contract for atleast two games on PS3.

 

[msia2k75]

2nd party. They have contract for atleast two games on PS3.

Even three I guess...

 

[mckmas8808]

Except, this is Factor 5, not Sony.
Or is Factor 5 now a Sony 1st or 2nd party?

Sony is the one that choses what gets shown and what doesn't. Go ask Insomniac about Resistence or nAo or DeanoC about Heavenly Sword. Sony are the ones that have that control not the devs sadly.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Sony is the one that choses what gets shown and what doesn't. Go ask Insomniac about Resistence or nAo or DeanoC about Heavenly Sword. Sony are the ones that have that control not the devs sadly.

On 1st and 2nd party games likely, but what about games from EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Konami, Capcom, Square-Enix... I don't think Sony has any more control over them than MS or Nintendo.
Just as Microsoft and Nintedo do choose what gets shown of their 1st and 2nd party games, surely it's not just a "Sony thing".

 

[mckmas8808]

Well I wasn't talking about 3rd parties so it doesn't matter.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Well, it's obvious really.
Just that the quality of Lair screenshots has been quite inconsistent recently, what does it tell about Sony then... I really don't know.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well, it's obvious really.
Just that the quality of Lair screenshots has been quite inconsistent recently, what does it tell about Sony then... I really don't know.

It tells me they are not communicating very well.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Just that the quality of Lair screenshots has been quite inconsistent recently, what does it tell about Sony then... I really don't know.

- Someone at Sony marketing should have a talk with his/her superior.
- Factor5 should review their contracts to have approoval on all marketing material.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This shot looks like it is a cut-out, and I've seen that happen so incredibly often ... . I have the game lying around, so when I get back from work I may have a look.

This may be a bad example, an upscale as you suggest, but I know for sure artistic viewpoints are used. And it's not a dev responsiblity but a publisher's one...

This could be interpreted as the dev's not taking responsibility for what the marketing people do with what the devs give them.

The devs lose marketting control when they get a publisher. They just write the game and have to trust other parties not to screw up the marketting. We've heard of some travesties marketeers have been responsible for, and Porthos, Athos and Aramis will continue to give us excessive AA, HUDless screen-grabs, and non-game viewpoints, all embellished with new buzz words like Global Illumination to which they ascribe their own meanings, and leaving devs to take abuse on their forums about how the game isn't the same as the screenshots

For reference, here's Chris Hoge from SnowBlind Studios explaining this, 7th post down
http://www.snowblindstudios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1046&highlight=camera

The camera works very similar to CoN, so now you know what to expect. SOE does all the screen shots for marketing. The game is first paused, then the camera is moved to a nice position, and then a screen capture is made.

The screenshots are moved close, probably so that people can see all the details in the characters and monsters. In magazine ads and on websites, those often get reduced, and it's good to show details. But yes, it's a bit misleading since the game doesn't actually allow such close views.

There are a couple reasons why the camera doesn't zoom so close during game play. One is that it's simply not as fun, since you can't see what's going on around you. Another is the problems that arrise when the camera has to navigate around high walls and tall monsters. Also, the quality of the graphics isn't as sharp when you get too close. And also, if the angle is too low, sweeping pans can sometimes cause textures to appear missing, since the PS2 can't load them fast enough.

 

[ROG27]

Unfortunately I have some doubts about this new, good looking image... the lighting is very, very different from all the other images that we know are realtime because of the AA and filtering artifacts. This one has no hard-edged shadows, no overbright speculars, all in all looks a bit like a CG render to me.
I might be wrong though; but how could two ingame shots released at the same time look so different?

...A dynamic lighting engine dependent on the environment's state (which is different in those pics). Plus, it could be from a new build than some of those pics.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

...A dynamic lighting engine dependent on the environment's state (which is different in those pics).

No. The bad looking shots are using 2 or 3 point lights regardless of the enviroment, hence the horrible contrast and blackness on the normal mapped surfaces. But the good looking shots have very soft lighting, probably some image based or skydome type stuff.

Plus, it could be from a new build than some of those pics.

I think we've already discussed this possibility. If that's the case, then the marketing people are making a serious mistake... Many diehard PS3 fanatics I know are getting very disappointed with the Europe delay, and the far from exeptional screenshots; one of them even considers getting an X360 for Christmas, mostly because of Lost Planet. And it seems to be more than a single mistake, as we have two different batches of screenshots from Lair.

 

[mckmas8808]

No. The bad looking shots are using 2 or 3 point lights regardless of the enviroment, hence the horrible contrast and blackness on the normal mapped surfaces. But the good looking shots have very soft lighting, probably some image based or skydome type stuff.

I thought the contrast of the screenshot was just bad. *shurgs*