With those parameters, wouldn't you be better off with NEC producing 2D download titles for XB360 and PS3? Why buy yet another box? Even if it was financially viable to create a new console for what's a seriously niche market.
New console from NEC
- Thread starter michaeljamesjohnson
- Start date
Megadrive1988
Veteran
when I said $199 for a 2D monster, I was thinking in a vaccum, lol, thinking about what consoles cost in previous generations. I wasn't thinking in terms of today with Xbox360, Wii and Ps3. I should've mentioned that.
If 3D consoles & PC cards are just as good as dedicated 2D machines in producing sprites, then indeed there wouldn't be a need for a new console at all.
If 3D consoles & PC cards are just as good as dedicated 2D machines in producing sprites, then indeed there wouldn't be a need for a new console at all.
The only reason you don't see it is because no-one creates 2D software any more. But in hardware terms they'd be, well, perfect to be quite frank. You could run sprites as 3D surfaces applying pixel shaders for really fancy shading, blending, and generally being awesome. It's the software that you want, and for that you need to look at download titles.
Ike Turner
Veteran
Looking for some awsome 2D game? Check out Aquaria..: http://www.bit-blot.com/aquaria/index.html
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=45854
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=45854
michaeljamesjohnson
Newcomer
OMG! Aquaria is what I am talking about! Those graphics and the music...its so soothing and smooth...definitely something you do not experience with todays 3D games.
I still stand by my idea of NEC/Hudson making a return with this kinda stuff though. =P
I still stand by my idea of NEC/Hudson making a return with this kinda stuff though. =P
I'm astonished by many of these posts.
2D functionality** is (in general) a tiny subset of 3D. Why on earth would one want to have a 2D-only system unless it was to be on a very small device***? It makes no financial nor practical sense at all.
Simon
**Sprite/Blit
***where silicon area and/or power is extremely limited
2D functionality** is (in general) a tiny subset of 3D. Why on earth would one want to have a 2D-only system unless it was to be on a very small device***? It makes no financial nor practical sense at all.
Simon
**Sprite/Blit
***where silicon area and/or power is extremely limited
archangelmorph
Veteran
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Though I would love to see much more 2d games like the snes days only with modern tech, I dont think we ever will see them again in big numbers (outside of handhelds, that still get some). The average consumers probably wont buy them after being brainwashed by sony/ms that they cant live withouth HD 3d gfx and I dont think any dev wants to risk a big budget on something that might only appeal to a very niche market. Though wouldnt it be alot cheaper to develop a high end 2d game than a 3d game?
In terms of hardware, wouldnt even outdated hardware be good enough to create kick ass 2d gfx? Something like Wii hardware should be more than enough right? if you see what was possible on Snes hardware with games like donkey kong country.
In terms of hardware, wouldnt even outdated hardware be good enough to create kick ass 2d gfx? Something like Wii hardware should be more than enough right? if you see what was possible on Snes hardware with games like donkey kong country.
3D has nothing to do with MS/Sony brainwashing and everything to do with the introduction of 3D hardware followed by an obsession by publishers. They weren't willing to produce 2D games when 3D appeared, so developers were forced into creating 3D. This went for adventure games and games ill-suited to 3D too. Lemmings and Worms were victims. Monkey Island had an uncomfortable 'upgrade'. Simon the Sorcery was delayed a trillion years and was finally released with the worst 3D ever, because the publishers wouldn't release another 2D adventure game. Due a reluctance to fund 2D games by publishers, developers have steered clear. Now with download titles, and the handhelds, things are improving. There's the traditional shooters and such; Lemmings returns in 2D glory, with can't-live-with-HD and the better for it; LocoRoco and EXIT et al onthe handhelds as well as Nintendo's staples; all show 2D can be great. However if these titles don't sell, 2D won't get funding. It's down to the market to decide what it wants games to be. The console manufacturers are happy to accommodate anything and can't be blamed for 2D absence.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
oke, I agree, maybe I put it wrong. But its not like Sony and nintendo didnt 'steer' into the direction of creating 3d games instead of 2d games. Didnt sega had to do a total 180 makeover on I think the saturn when sony came with the psx? because it was all about 3d while sega was doing a 2d monster?
Jack_Tripper
Newcomer
Couple of things:
1. Doesn't the Wii already do like 95% of what you are looking for as far as backwards compatability?
- I wonder how the licensing for those games work. It would be easy to approach a (former) SNK and just buy an entire catalog of games, but I can't imagine that Sega, for example, is thrilled with the idea of selling of the rights to an IP that they could put in a "greatest hits" package and probably do better on revenue. Just curious about this topic in general.
- If anything, the VC sucks because of the Trickle-OUT method of getting games out the door. Ya, they're better than MS or Sony at this - but goddamn, THREE a week???
2. I like the idea of a series of newly dedicated 2d high-resolution games, but I'm not 100% sold that anyone is ever going to invest the sheer man power/time necessary to recreate a hand-drawn experience that could compete with a 3d experience
- Note, I'm not saying I don't want it to happen - but I'm just not optimistic
3. I think if anything, the Wii VC shows me just how far we've come - and what rose-tinted glasses I wear when I think about those old 2d games. Take the Neo-Geo games, at the time of their release (something like Art of Fighting) was probably the prettiest 2d game around- but hook it up and put it out at even a low (high) resolution of 480p and it looks like total ass.
4. NEC is NEVER going to get back into the hardware game, from what I remember reading - the TG16 and subsequent followers were pieces of history that almost made them history, development woes, hideously fierce competition and licensing issues were nightmarish for them - and I gotta say, the environment today isn't all that different (if not worse)
5. God I always wanted a Super-Graffx, could NEVER find one, can't even find decent emulation for it anywhere. I remember playing the updated version of Strider (think it was Strider X) on a arcade cabinet with a SG inside - simply amazing - 2d gaming bliss
6. Is there even a market for 2d games anymore. I was all excited at the prospect of the XBL:A, and seriously thought those games would generate tons of interest in 2d apps - but the sales numbers for some of those (what I would consider high profile games for their time) are just dismal (Street Fighter: Hyper Fighting for example). - I'm hopefully that the advent of SF: HD Remix may rekindle some of the interest in 2d games - but I do agree with the opinion that alot of it looks like a really high-rez flash game
1. Doesn't the Wii already do like 95% of what you are looking for as far as backwards compatability?
- I wonder how the licensing for those games work. It would be easy to approach a (former) SNK and just buy an entire catalog of games, but I can't imagine that Sega, for example, is thrilled with the idea of selling of the rights to an IP that they could put in a "greatest hits" package and probably do better on revenue. Just curious about this topic in general.
- If anything, the VC sucks because of the Trickle-OUT method of getting games out the door. Ya, they're better than MS or Sony at this - but goddamn, THREE a week???
2. I like the idea of a series of newly dedicated 2d high-resolution games, but I'm not 100% sold that anyone is ever going to invest the sheer man power/time necessary to recreate a hand-drawn experience that could compete with a 3d experience
- Note, I'm not saying I don't want it to happen - but I'm just not optimistic
3. I think if anything, the Wii VC shows me just how far we've come - and what rose-tinted glasses I wear when I think about those old 2d games. Take the Neo-Geo games, at the time of their release (something like Art of Fighting) was probably the prettiest 2d game around- but hook it up and put it out at even a low (high) resolution of 480p and it looks like total ass.
4. NEC is NEVER going to get back into the hardware game, from what I remember reading - the TG16 and subsequent followers were pieces of history that almost made them history, development woes, hideously fierce competition and licensing issues were nightmarish for them - and I gotta say, the environment today isn't all that different (if not worse)
5. God I always wanted a Super-Graffx, could NEVER find one, can't even find decent emulation for it anywhere. I remember playing the updated version of Strider (think it was Strider X) on a arcade cabinet with a SG inside - simply amazing - 2d gaming bliss
6. Is there even a market for 2d games anymore. I was all excited at the prospect of the XBL:A, and seriously thought those games would generate tons of interest in 2d apps - but the sales numbers for some of those (what I would consider high profile games for their time) are just dismal (Street Fighter: Hyper Fighting for example). - I'm hopefully that the advent of SF: HD Remix may rekindle some of the interest in 2d games - but I do agree with the opinion that alot of it looks like a really high-rez flash game
Yes, but that's the way the industry was headed. 3D was new and exciting, and the new games people were wanting to play were in 3D. It wasn't Sony and Nintendo forcing the issue, but Sega dropping the ball. No-one wanted to play 2D beat-'em'-ups and shooters when 3D racers and platforms were possible. They had been playing those 2D games for years and the 3D was something fresh. If they had all gone 2D, anyone else introducing a cheap 3D console would have stolen the market.
Now that the novelty of 3D has worn off, and we've had those abominations, 2D's place is being recognised as a valid choice for a game. We'll probably hit a nice equilibrium. Like radio, cinema and TV. All of them at some point or other was predicted to die when the new technology appeared, but they've all found their place as they all offer something different.
michaeljamesjohnson
Newcomer
Why couldnt a new NEC console or even current consoles play an old school game (via emulation), but actually render the game in high resolution (i.e. 1920x1080).
For the old 2D games, this would give you WAY more screen real estate!
Can you imagine playing a top-down RPG like Y's Book I&II and seeing several more times the amount of area than the original (256×240?) game?! Or a side scroller like Bonk and being able to see everything above, below and a huge distance ahead and behind Bonk himself. I never understood why game companies could not improve old games just by rendering more of the screen. Couldnt they also uncompress music and sound effects? I mean, with emulation, theoretically anything would be possible I would think.
For the old 2D games, this would give you WAY more screen real estate!
Can you imagine playing a top-down RPG like Y's Book I&II and seeing several more times the amount of area than the original (256×240?) game?! Or a side scroller like Bonk and being able to see everything above, below and a huge distance ahead and behind Bonk himself. I never understood why game companies could not improve old games just by rendering more of the screen. Couldnt they also uncompress music and sound effects? I mean, with emulation, theoretically anything would be possible I would think.
Because they weren't programmed that way. The best you could do is stretch the fixed sized sprites and 2D assets to fill the screen, like PS3's upscaling, which could be an improvement on the originals although it wouldn't match real HD quality. Or even real SD TV quality. Most 2D games didn't hit 640x480 AFAIK.
Mintmaster
Veteran
I don't see the point in such a machine. Just use a PS2. It can even output 1080i if you want to. PS2 can draw all the sprites you could possibly want, even at 1080i.
BTW, does anyone know if PS2 requires pixel doubling for 1080i output like they did in GT4?
BTW, does anyone know if PS2 requires pixel doubling for 1080i output like they did in GT4?