My thoughts on the Nintendo situation. (I am a Nintendo fan)
- Thread starter OICAspork
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Spidermate
Regular
wco81 said:
Have you been keeping up with the news for this handheld or have you been paying attention to fanboy rumors? The PSP does use the hard coating for its LCD screen. This was even meantioned by Sony awhile back.
As for scratching, they go into extreme detail to prove to you what will and won't scratch the screen after numerous tests.
I breathe easier on the scratching front, but we still won't know about other stress factors for a while. Putting pressure on certain screens can screw them up royally--and certainly we see how many types of screen problems laptops have had, and scratching is never really among them.
While the PSP doesn't have a screen THAT big, it's still bigger than most screens on a device that doesn't fold over in some way to protect itself while in transport (like portable DVD players).
I do agree, however, that people will seldom just "stick a PSP in their pocket" amongst other random detritus, or port it around for any length without carrying it in a soft case. They'd devote a pocket all on its own, if they're so inclined.
While the PSP doesn't have a screen THAT big, it's still bigger than most screens on a device that doesn't fold over in some way to protect itself while in transport (like portable DVD players).
I do agree, however, that people will seldom just "stick a PSP in their pocket" amongst other random detritus, or port it around for any length without carrying it in a soft case. They'd devote a pocket all on its own, if they're so inclined.
And that's where GBA2 comes in...
Also NDS won't be out of style for the older crowd since it offers a very unique gaming experience. Dual screens and stylus input can be enjoyed by young and old alike. As a matter of fact RTS games are strictly for the older demographic which will benefit greatly by the use of a stylus. Yes there will be older people who would buy a PSP instead of a NDS because it's directly marketed to them, that's obvious, but I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference in terms of the mass market since NDS is targeting a wider audience and that includes women. The NDS price is also a mass market price. Of course Nintendo will have the older demographic directly covered too when GBA2 is announced which will be beyond what PSP offers. Why you think it will be too late is beyond me since we don't even know when GBA2 will be released. I expect GBA2 will also offer a touch screen in addition to superior technology to that of PSP so some PSP owners will likely switch to GBA2.
PC-Engine said:
...and that's the reason for my core argument further up:
The Gameboy handhelds today targets to a younger market. The untapped market PSP will be targeting are todays iPod users, console buyers and adults/teenagers aged between 15+ until 39 year olds. The crowd I'm refering to for a large part does not own Gameboys. The Gameboy currently lacks the design and the necessary content to attract older buyers (the audience PSP is targetting) and therefore goes short in being a mass-market product (despite its high sales attributed to its market) like the PlayStation brand.
If the Gameboy Advance 2 wants to compete with PSP products in the future, it will have to compete with it directly by changing its content and it's appearance. Without that, even a more powerful handheld will have little impact without the content that those older targeted PSP audience want to see. The DS clearly does not target such a crowd - no innovative feature like stylus and touchscreen, dual screen will change that unfortunately. This will give PSP a timeframe advantage in which it will build up mindshare. Mindshare that will ultimately make it very hard for GBA2 to compete will Nintendo decide to follow suit.
Knowing Nintendo and witnessing their strategy in the past though, I doubt they'll attempt to compete directly and will follow suit with something more powerful, yet aimed at the younger audience again (similar to how they went around it with GameCube as a successor to N64).
Sony is opening a new market with PSP like they did with PS1 last generation and continuing to do so even more with PS2 (with a device targeting the mass-market) - as long as Nintendo doesn't realise this and refuses to compete, they'll be forced into a niche market as currently happening with GameCube.
So you're comparing the portable market with what happened in the past with regards to N64 and PS1? The portable market it not the same as the console market, but I'll let you figure that out yourself.
Perrin Kaplan talking about older gamers:
Anyhow if SONY manages to shift the mass market towards highend portable gaming with the PSP, then GBA2 will be there to take care of that market. Ultimately, in the end Nintendo will have the low end (GBA SP), middle (NDS), and highend (GBA2) so regardless where the market shifts I really see little room for SONY to make progress beyond a small fraction of the market. Also the price of games will be a significant factor too which again Nintendo has the advantage.
PS Your comment about GBA not being a mass market portable is pretty baffling considering it's price, game library, installed base, and continued huge sales numbers. If that's not mass market then I don't know what is. If you consider people who buy PocketPCs as the mass market then that probably expalains why. Mass market is the average Joe not people who post on geek forums.
Perrin Kaplan talking about older gamers:
Anyhow if SONY manages to shift the mass market towards highend portable gaming with the PSP, then GBA2 will be there to take care of that market. Ultimately, in the end Nintendo will have the low end (GBA SP), middle (NDS), and highend (GBA2) so regardless where the market shifts I really see little room for SONY to make progress beyond a small fraction of the market. Also the price of games will be a significant factor too which again Nintendo has the advantage.
PS Your comment about GBA not being a mass market portable is pretty baffling considering it's price, game library, installed base, and continued huge sales numbers. If that's not mass market then I don't know what is. If you consider people who buy PocketPCs as the mass market then that probably expalains why. Mass market is the average Joe not people who post on geek forums.
marconelly!
Veteran
Just FYI, the $185 package includes the battery charger (it's only a common sense, after all), so technically, if you want to save money to the max, the only thing you have to purchase if you want to game seriously, is a memory card, which you can find for around $15-$20 for 32MB (128MB model goes for ~$30-$35 nowadays) So, that clocks PSP+stick at around $200.
Of course, if you already have some of the money invested in these memory sticks for other Sony products, you can just use some of those, withouth having to purchase any new ones.
Have in mind also that $185 is a Japanese price, it's more than likely going to cost even less here.
In terms of console games, I'd say Sony definitely has had a stronger 1st party showing than Nintendo this generation. A lot of that I think is due to NCL's overreliance on EAD (who's been slipping imo) and western parnetrships (most of which have gone sour), while letting their young talent and other established teams flourish on GBA. That's one of the problems in splitting development focus... which Sony will soon have to face with PSP R&D.
Not to take away from Sony though, they've made a huge leap forward this gen, particularly in their western divisions (SCEI was top stuff last gen already).
As is though, Nintendo's GBA library is stunning in both quality and quantity, arguably their best 1st party effort ever I'd say (even ahead of NES/Famicom & N64). The best Nintendo games are definitely not on GameCube this generation and I'd say sales reflect that to an extent. I'd also take Nintendo's GBA library over Sony's PS2 library in a hearbeat... hell, I'd probably take Advance Wars 2 alone over it.
Not to take away from Sony though, they've made a huge leap forward this gen, particularly in their western divisions (SCEI was top stuff last gen already).
As is though, Nintendo's GBA library is stunning in both quality and quantity, arguably their best 1st party effort ever I'd say (even ahead of NES/Famicom & N64). The best Nintendo games are definitely not on GameCube this generation and I'd say sales reflect that to an extent. I'd also take Nintendo's GBA library over Sony's PS2 library in a hearbeat... hell, I'd probably take Advance Wars 2 alone over it.
Both the GBA SP and Classic NES/Famicom Mini campaigns have made surprising inroads in regards to the adult market for handhelds. Indeed FCmini & Pokemon are the only products that attributed any growth to Japan's ever declining game market this year. Never underestimate the pull of nostalgia.
It's not declining - if you include the keitai scene in the game market. It is chipping away at the home consoles numbers, but taking the gaming scene as a whole there is no decline to speak of. Just take a look at the list of keitai games exhibitors at TGS2004. When even Square-Enix have released FF and DQ games for keitai, that's a good indication of how big that market is becoming.
In a bit of unexpected twist, the 'paid-content/paid-gaming/subsciption-gaming' model that console online gaming is supposed to bring is way behind keitai.
I think we all need to go back to the history of hand held or pocket consoles to get a good idea as why Nintendo will always rule that market before we declare victory for Sony.
Here are a number of reasons I have come up with:
1) Nintendo's experience in making video games that people want to play in a portable situation reguardless of the system's specs.
2) Durability. I remember way back in 1991 during Emperor George Bush's Desert Storm many soldier took Gameboy's to Kuwait and many of those Gameboys took alot of damage but were still able to play games there.
3) Never under estimate the power of Nintendo's Dinasty videogames franchises and their very requested sequels.
4) same as number 3 but with a twist, never underestimate the Pokemon videogame series, sure Pokemon may not be as popular as it used to be, but the game is still and will be very playable as on the go games.
Sony has the deep pockets and they have their alliances of third parties some of whom were also defeated in the hand held market (SEGA, NEC, Atari, etc)
Sony also has their name brand that alot of people associate with quality but it wont matter if the PSP is a portable PS2 or that they have more games all of a sudden over Nintendo because people will decide what games they want to play in the end.
For that reason I can only see Nintendo with a victory by default.
Here are a number of reasons I have come up with:
1) Nintendo's experience in making video games that people want to play in a portable situation reguardless of the system's specs.
2) Durability. I remember way back in 1991 during Emperor George Bush's Desert Storm many soldier took Gameboy's to Kuwait and many of those Gameboys took alot of damage but were still able to play games there.
3) Never under estimate the power of Nintendo's Dinasty videogames franchises and their very requested sequels.
4) same as number 3 but with a twist, never underestimate the Pokemon videogame series, sure Pokemon may not be as popular as it used to be, but the game is still and will be very playable as on the go games.
Sony has the deep pockets and they have their alliances of third parties some of whom were also defeated in the hand held market (SEGA, NEC, Atari, etc)
Sony also has their name brand that alot of people associate with quality but it wont matter if the PSP is a portable PS2 or that they have more games all of a sudden over Nintendo because people will decide what games they want to play in the end.
For that reason I can only see Nintendo with a victory by default.
Actually, Nintendo (under Yamauchi reign) had a plan in 2000 to release a "next-gen GameBoy" with gaming + cellphone features in 2001, after GBA. But it's unclear how this plan went thereafter, as you see NDS has no cellphone capability and only has w-lan. Perhaps Nintendo avoided direct competition against cellphone carriers.
Yamauchi was always a strong believer in convergence. His original intentions for Famicom/NES were strikingly similar to Kutaragi's network/content distribution ambitions with PS2 (then moved to PSX, now PSP/PS3). Yamauchi also wanted N64 to be a CD system (Miyamoto was the main man pushing carts actually) and he wanted GameCube to be fully DVD compatible with a unified online network immediately (Star Road). I wonder where Nintendo'd be today if Yamauchi hadn't backed down on some of those decisions?one said:
jarrod said:
Do you mean SuperFamicom/SNES? Yamauchi had always published his disfavor against CD-ROM after the SNES-CD abortion. Check out this Japanese page, it quotes Yamauchi's speech at Shoshinkai 1992 & 1995. In the 1992 speech (note that in the begining of 1992 Nintendo abandoned the partnership with Sony) Yamauchi told the audience that bigger storage of CD-ROM has no relation with originative entertainment. In 1995, he berated FMV-filled games with no serious gaming contents and recommended ROM with custom semiconductors and rewritable disk.
It's PR, he was pushing for CD-ROM internally from the start and was the driving force behind the initial alliance with Sony (he's actually good friends with Kutaragi). He gave in far too often to other elelments within Nintendo during the 1990s (Miyamoto in particular) when he probably should've gone with his gut.one said:
jarrod said:
Well do you have any other clue except for your insider info? Aside from Miyamoto's opinion, ROM cartridge is very lucrative media from business POV. Eventually Yamauchi was the man who could decide what his company does, it sounds very unlikely that he wanted CD-ROM in his heart but turned down it in N64.
Well, no really. Sorry. :/one said:
Likewise though, I'd think the fact Nintendo was initially pursuing CD-ROM heavily (through Sony, then Phillips, then a joint alliance between both) shows the interest there. Justification for the cart format came not only from the bean counters at NCL most likely but also Miyamoto (who's feelings on the matter are pretty well publicized).
Yamauchi has always been rather forward thinking though, from networking to media to content distribution. And he didn't call the shots alone at Nintendo, otherwise we'd all be playing our StarCubes right now.
