MTX of Dragon Dogma 2 *spawn*

[Reynaldo]

It's not at all true that all this is all 'easily obtainable in the game', though. Which changes a lot.

And there are plenty of people who dont like the super limited fast travel in DD2, which makes Capcom selling paid 'fast travel' feel like they knowingly took advantage of things to get money from people who dont like this part of the game. That's terrible. We used to just have like cheat codes and things for this. And that's basically what they're doing - selling us cheat codes.

It has even more fast travel options than the first game, and immediately available after reaching the first town. Yes, they're selling cheat codes, good thing that they're optional and not necessary at all. Don't purchase them and maybe they won't add them anymore, but since they keep adding them to their games, maybe people are voting with their wallets.

 

[Seanspeed]

It has even more fast travel options than the first game, and immediately available after reaching the first town. Yes, they're selling cheat codes, good thing that they're optional and not necessary at all. Don't purchase them and maybe they won't add them anymore, but since they keep adding them to their games, maybe people are voting with their wallets.

It does not have more fast travel options than the first game, and it's worse cuz the game world is much bigger now. You also do not get some unlimited access to fast travel anywhere, let alone in the first town. Personally, I dont have a huge issue with limited fast travel, but it's definitely an issue for plenty of people.

"Dont purchase them and maybe they wont add them anymore" - that's not a defense of the actual practice. They could offer this stuff for free, and making people pay for it instead sucks.

I'll never understand this kind of corporate bootlicking. You seem to understand perfectly well this is lousy, but are defending it anyways. Is it just contrarianism or something?

 

[Reynaldo]

It does not have more fast travel options than the first game, and it's worse cuz the game world is much bigger now. You also do not get some unlimited access to fast travel anywhere, let alone in the first town. Personally, I dont have a huge issue with limited fast travel, but it's definitely an issue for plenty of people.

"Dont purchase them and maybe they wont add them anymore" - that's not a defense of the actual practice. They could offer this stuff for free, and making people pay for it instead sucks.

I'll never understand this kind of corporate bootlicking. You seem to understand perfectly well this is lousy, but are defending it anyways. Is it just contrarianism or something?

You have the same ferrystones as the first one + the oxcarts now, that while not instantaneous, it's one more option.

So, its corporate bootlicking because I don't throw a fizzle over a non-issue for me? Where am I defending Capcom?

 

[pcchen]

They are still in game consumables

Then why bother putting them in? If they are useless, who would spend money on them? If people are spending money on them, what's the reason?

Because there are people who want to play the game faster? It's not that the game is designed to deliberately increase grinding time or something to artificially prolong the game play time, at least it's not so in the DD1, and I'm not seeing that (although I haven't played for too long) in DD2 either.
For me personally I won't be buying any of these (I haven't even use any RC or deluxe consumable items) because I don't care if it takes me months to actually finish the game. I'm not playing many other games. But I understand some people might be less patient and want to have something to play the game more quickly.
As I said, if it does not change the game balance (i.e. the game is not designed purely to encourage people to buy these things) I'm fine with it.

It's not that I love game companies doing this. It's better if they don't do that, because you'll know that they won't be deliberately changing the game balance. However, if the reality is that game companies have to do something like this, I'd prefer that they do this in a better way. And you need those companies to be profitable in order to encourage them to treat gamers better. (That's why I bought the deluxe version even though I'm not really going to use those items ) Otherwise eventually all you have will be those who treat gamers like shit, because the market will say, hey, gamers hate my games but my games make more money than your supercool games which gamers all love, so I'll keep making these money grabbing games.

 

[GhostofWar]

I think the DLC/mtx stuff is really the reason for the crack down on modding their games recently. It's probably a highly cynical take but you know someone could pop out a mod in a day after release to let players ignore paying for consumables if they didn't have to first get through the 2 layers of anti tamper rubbish.

 

[pharma]

KitGuru Games: Dragon’s Dogma 2 launch squandered by greed - KitGuru

While I'm typically more positive when it comes to discussing games, today we're going to be diving

www.kitguru.net

In a game like Dragon's Dogma, players spend a ton of time crafting not only their main character, but their ‘Pawn' as well, a secondary character that joins you in your party and will mould its playstyle around the things you do in battle. Want to reset your Pawn to act differently? That will cost you £1.70.

There is a particular quote now doing the rounds on social media from Dragon's Dogma 2 director, Hideaki Itsuno, where he explains that fast travel wouldn't be necessary in games if the ‘travelling' part of the game was actually fun. In direct contrast to this, Capcom thought it would be prudent to sell ‘Portcrystals', an item that costs £2.49 and allows you to fast travel to a location of your choice.

Dragon's Dogma 2 does not include a New Game button, so once you've created your character and committed to it, there is a sense that you are stuck with it. To get around this, Capcom is selling a Character Editor item for £1.70, allowing you to tweak your character's appearance should you want to make any adjustments after starting the game. Getting around this is a convoluted process that involves making sure your Steam Cloud Saves are switched off, finding your original save files hiding in a folder and then deleting them. Sure it's not the end of the world to have to go through this workaround, but the fact that Capcom is obscuring the ability to start a fresh new character and instead selling you an item to make any appearance changes, is nothing short of bad practise.

With these two examples alone, Capcom has already undermined core pillars of the game. Dragon's Dogma 2 was designed to be played and explored without fast travel – so why sell pricey single-use fast-travel ‘crystals'? The character creator is one of the most detailed in the industry – so why lock adjustments behind a ridiculous paywall and intentionally make it difficult to start a new character?

 

[cheapchips]

There was a nice comment I read elsewhere that Capcom's general approach to gamechanging microtransactions. Their Devs make the game without thinking about it. Capcom slap the DLC on them afterwards as a "well if you want to" after thought.

Anyway, enjoying the game so far!

 

[orangpelupa]

KitGuru Games: Dragon’s Dogma 2 launch squandered by greed - KitGuru

While I'm typically more positive when it comes to discussing games, today we're going to be diving

www.kitguru.net

Btw this got me thinking if the new character block (other than manually deleting the save file) is related to the story.

IIRC in dragons dogma 1, it relates to how everything was a cycle or some such.

The way it plays with save game is still much better in nier automata tho IMO

 

[Reynaldo]

I think the DLC/mtx stuff is really the reason for the crack down on modding their games recently. It's probably a highly cynical take but you know someone could pop out a mod in a day after release to let players ignore paying for consumables if they didn't have to first get through the 2 layers of anti tamper rubbish.

There are mods out, less than 24 hours after release, that modify drop rates for the items.

 

[GhostofWar]

There are mods out, less than 24 hours after release, that modify drop rates for the items.

Well that's amusing, any idea if they actually put denuvo and their own anti tamper on this? I'm wrong I guess or their competency in stopping the modding is not really a strong point for them. If they didn't add the anti tamper software I wonder if it compounded the cpu bound problems and didn't want to tank performance any worse.

 

[pcchen]

Well that's amusing, any idea if they actually put denuvo and their own anti tamper on this? I'm wrong I guess or their competency in stopping the modding is not really a strong point for them. If they didn't add the anti tamper software I wonder if it compounded the cpu bound problems and didn't want to tank performance any worse.

Generally anti-tamper software only protects a part of a software. It can't check for the entire game's data files everytime before you start a game, so it could be setup to check the executable only. In most cases that's good enough for preventing simple piracy (by modifying the game executable to skip checking on proper license).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Because there are people who want to play the game faster?

Why should they be charged a premium for that? Is the game deliberately slowed down to bother people into buying accelerators? That could be a very simple setting to toggle on 'not much game time in a week' mode.

However, if the reality is that game companies have to do something like this, I'd prefer that they do this in a better way.

If they need additional income, this isn't the way to do it. It should be designed from the ground up and presented like that Day 1. Sell cosmetics - those things make stupid money for some reason. Don't sell in-game functionality in consumables. It's an absolute disgrace that a digital counter "how many fast travel stones have you got" costs as much to get a new stone as buying areal-world sandwich or whatever. Digital 'consumables' are a completely fake economy with zero costs. Just because games can copy a real-world concept, doesn't mean they should be allowed to get away with it. If batteries or shoelaces or brake pads could be duplicated at zero cost, they shouldn't be charged either.

Sell people something of value. Don't take a random feature in your game and sell it extra.

And yes, people are free to not buy them. On those same principles of freedom, I'm free to express my disgust at them.

 

[Seanspeed]

You have the same ferrystones as the first one + the oxcarts now, that while not instantaneous, it's one more option.

So, its corporate bootlicking because I don't throw a fizzle over a non-issue for me? Where am I defending Capcom?

You're literally defending this ridiculous greedy practice of selling cheat codes. That's how you're defending them. All in a game that is designed around limiting these things too, which makes it extra exploitative. They KNOW there will be people who aren't a fan of certain design elements, and instead of just giving those players some normal option to deal with it, they make them PAY MORE MONEY to do so.

In what world should this be ok? Especially in a pure single player title?

 

[Reynaldo]

You're literally defending this ridiculous greedy practice of selling cheat codes. That's how you're defending them. All in a game that is designed around limiting these things too, which makes it extra exploitative. They KNOW there will be people who aren't a fan of certain design elements, and instead of just giving those players some normal option to deal with it, they make them PAY MORE MONEY to do so.

In what world should this be ok? Especially in a pure single player title?

Not giving a fuck is not defending. Feel free to think whatever you want if it makes you feel better, I'm done with the topic.

 

[pcchen]

Why should they be charged a premium for that? Is the game deliberately slowed down to bother people into buying accelerators? That could be a very simple setting to toggle on 'not much game time in a week' mode.

Do you have any proof that they do that? Because I don't feel it that way after playing the game for more than 15 hours.
I understand people's feeling that "all microtransactions are bad." I tend to agree. But the business reality is just there. People love to say that, hey, Baulder's Gate 3, Elder Ring, even Palworld, are good counter examples, but the reality is that they are good games, but many mediocre games actually made much more money than these very good games.

From what I've seen in DD2 (and to some extent DD1) and the weird nature, I'd say it's more likley the "microtransactions" are merely something for the management. They don't want to do that, so they did something barely minimum to satisfy the MBA people. If they did the cosmetics in any way, I think that'd be worse for this game.

 

[orangpelupa]

dragon's dogma 1 and 2 are indeed quite interesting in their MTX strategy. personally i prefer this kind of strategy compared to others. as simply playing the game, is still good enough to experience without MTX.

unike those other games where MTX got exclusive contents, and/or need ridiculous amounts of grind to buy just 1 dollar MTX content.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Developer makes X game. Regardless of how easy the game is or how little grind there is, people will still mod/cheat in the game in order to play it faster.

Developer figures, meh, people are going to cheat/mod the game anyway, let's just throw in some MTX to basically allow "official" cheating if they want to spend money.

I'm not sure how it's bad? Especially if most people playing the game without buying anything don't feel like there is excessive grind making them want to buy any of the "official" cheats. I say "most" because there will always be people that want to cheat to make a game easier and/or faster to finish no matter how easy the game is nor how short the game is.

This reminds me of the auction house uproar in Diablo III. Anyone that wanted to engage in it was already buying and selling gear in Diablo II. It wasn't hard to do, it wasn't a secret and hundreds of thousands of dollars a month exchanged hands in Diablo II as people bought and sold gear (some of the gear was so rare in D2 that you might play for 2+ years and never see the gear you want dropped in Diablo II).

Diablo III just introduced a safer way to do it (lots of people also got scammed out of their money in Diablo II on online trading sites). Oh but it's bad because Blizzard have made it official and safer and are taking a cut of it instead of the trading websites that people were using in Diablo II taking a cut of every transaction.

Bleh. All that uproar over the auction house and trading just made D3 so much worse. I could no longer trade gear with my friends when playing together. So, end result, we'd just play Diablo II instead.

It's like an extension of the rabid arguments I used to see between "people that felt people that used cheats in games were scum" and "people that didn't have time to play games using cheats so they could play and finish games in the very limited play time they had available".

I know people that would rather spend money than download a questionable cheat/mod that may or may not carry a virus payload and may or may not fuck with their game. I also know people that would rather download a questionable cheat/mod rather than pay even a single penny for "faster" progression. In the end, they both want and accomplish the same thing, but one would rather pay for it while the other would rather take the risk and not pay for it.

BTW - I'm not saying games designed around trying to force people to buy MTX are good! But from every single person I know in RL who is playing and really liking DD2, not a single one of them feels that this game was designed to force MTX sales.

Regards,
SB

 

[GhostofWar]

Generally anti-tamper software only protects a part of a software. It can't check for the entire game's data files everytime before you start a game, so it could be setup to check the executable only. In most cases that's good enough for preventing simple piracy (by modifying the game executable to skip checking on proper license).

Yeh I know generally anti piracy just protects the executable but from the drama a few months back they seemed to be trying to stop modding just as much as piracy. I didn't really follow all the drama over it and i've got no idea if they added it back to the games people were saying it broke.

Capcom's Anti-Modding Software Is A Step Backwards For The Gaming Industry

Capcom's anti-mod campaign has reached an all-time high as modders protest against Enigma DRM to play games the way they want to.

exputer.com

Capcom tries to stop modders with DRM software, but players say it's bricking games

It's not a good look for the company.

dotesports.com

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Do you have any proof that they do that? Because I don't feel it that way after playing the game for more than 15 hours.

It's not a theory of what's happening, but a concern that only arises with the introduction of IGCs. If these weren't added, you'd know for a fact that the game was balanced 100% just for the single player experience. The moment IGCs are included, you have no idea of the artistic integrity of the game balance.

I understand people's feeling that "all microtransactions are bad."

No, I'm not irrationally emotional on this. Not all MTs are bad and I won't just arbitrarily rage against all of them. It's in-game consumables that are bad, tying player agency to one-shot payments. MTs are fine so long as they are optional and add to the game.

From what I've seen in DD2 (and to some extent DD1) and the weird nature, I'd say it's more likley the "microtransactions" are merely something for the management. They don't want to do that, so they did something barely minimum to satisfy the MBA people.

Quite possibly.

If they did the cosmetics in any way, I think that'd be worse for this game.

How so?

 

[Nesh]

Developer makes X game. Regardless of how easy the game is or how little grind there is, people will still mod/cheat in the game in order to play it faster.

Developer figures, meh, people are going to cheat/mod the game anyway, let's just throw in some MTX to basically allow "official" cheating if they want to spend money.

I'm not sure how it's bad? Especially if most people playing the game without buying anything don't feel like there is excessive grind making them want to buy any of the "official" cheats. I say "most" because there will always be people that want to cheat to make a game easier and/or faster to finish no matter how easy the game is nor how short the game is.

This reminds me of the auction house uproar in Diablo III. Anyone that wanted to engage in it was already buying and selling gear in Diablo II. It wasn't hard to do, it wasn't a secret and hundreds of thousands of dollars a month exchanged hands in Diablo II as people bought and sold gear (some of the gear was so rare in D2 that you might play for 2+ years and never see the gear you want dropped in Diablo II).

Diablo III just introduced a safer way to do it (lots of people also got scammed out of their money in Diablo II on online trading sites). Oh but it's bad because Blizzard have made it official and safer and are taking a cut of it instead of the trading websites that people were using in Diablo II taking a cut of every transaction.

Bleh. All that uproar over the auction house and trading just made D3 so much worse. I could no longer trade gear with my friends when playing together. So, end result, we'd just play Diablo II instead.

It's like an extension of the rabid arguments I used to see between "people that felt people that used cheats in games were scum" and "people that didn't have time to play games using cheats so they could play and finish games in the very limited play time they had available".

I know people that would rather spend money than download a questionable cheat/mod that may or may not carry a virus payload and may or may not fuck with their game. I also know people that would rather download a questionable cheat/mod rather than pay even a single penny for "faster" progression. In the end, they both want and accomplish the same thing, but one would rather pay for it while the other would rather take the risk and not pay for it.

BTW - I'm not saying games designed around trying to force people to buy MTX are good! But from every single person I know in RL who is playing and really liking DD2, not a single one of them feels that this game was designed to force MTX sales.

Regards,
SB

Console players cannot use cheats and mods and not all PC players are interested in cheats/modding.

The thing is, cheats are considered a separate "universe" from the actual product, a separate culture if you will. Making that into a microtransactional official feature does feel invasive to what the product represents and it's aim. Imagine if Soulsborne games were infested with official cheat microtransactional purchases. Not only does it break the whole premise of the game and sense of achievement by officially supporting it, it makes gamers rightfully suspicious and less trusting for the current or future game design, thinking that it may deliberately be sabotaging gamers in order to entice them to commit to microtransactions.