MTX of Dragon Dogma 2 *spawn*

[Shifty Geezer]

It's like an extension of the rabid arguments I used to see between "people that felt people that used cheats in games were scum" and "people that didn't have time to play games using cheats so they could play and finish games in the very limited play time they had available".

I know people that would rather spend money than download a questionable cheat/mod that may or may not carry a virus payload and may or may not fuck with their game. I also know people that would rather download a questionable cheat/mod rather than pay even a single penny for "faster" progression.

And in the end, both could be supported in game as part of the original asking price with a few simple settings. Why should people with less time to enjoy a game have to pay a premium for what amounts to zero effort on the part of the devs to enable?

 

[pcchen]

How so?

Because right now everything can be obtained in game by just playing the game (according to the producer). If a cosmetic item was added in game with microtransaction, It's quite possible that the item will not be obtainable through other means.
Anyway, I think we all agree that games should not be designed to entice people to pay for MTX items. I feel that DD2's game design is not really affected by those MTX items, that's why I said from the beginning that I don't really care as long as it's the case. So I think this does not really apply to DD2. In an ideal world it'd be nice if MTX items do not exist at all, but unfortunately we don't live in that world. What I don't like is that some game media seems to suggest that this is a "surprise" or "stealthy" move where it is just not.

 

[orangpelupa]

Console players cannot use cheats and mods and not all PC players are interested in cheats/modding.

The thing is, cheats are considered a separate "universe" from the actual product, a separate culture if you will. Making that into a microtransactional official feature does feel invasive to what the product represents and it's aim. Imagine if Soulsborne games were infested with official cheat microtransactional purchases. Not only does it break the whole premise of the game and sense of achievement by officially supporting it, it makes gamers rightfully suspicious and less trusting for the current or future game design, thinking that it may deliberately be sabotaging gamers in order to entice them to commit to microtransactions.

i think @Silent_Buddha point is that not specific for PC cheats it self, but the concept of "officially sanctioned" cheats.

so ages ago, officially sanctioned cheats were
- secret in game level
- secret button keys
- secret anything

that give "cheats", all available for free, but you need to dig deep and/or have subscription to video games magazine, in the era before wide internet adoption.

capcom's "enshittification" is by making those kinds of officially sanctioned cheats from being free and obscure to be paid feature that are listed what are the cheats.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What I don't like is that some game media seems to suggest that this is a "surprise" or "stealthy" move where it is just not.

How is it not? Capcom weren't up front about it. You have some people defending them saying "this is typical for Capcom" but unless you are following a publisher over multiple games, you aren't to know that. If you just read a review and like the sound of the game, you can't be expected to read between the lines based on publisher precedent and predict paid accelerators at launch. And where Capcom informed reviewers the game would be getting DLC, this is not DLC. DLC is downloadable content - extra content added to the game. The DLC in DD1 was extra voice packs and armour packs. DD2's MTs aren't DLC but already in-game items, just with MTs to access.

It could only have been honest if Capcom informed reviews that the game would have purchasable in-game consumables. If they were up front, the reviews would have said, "you can buy these items but the game is well balanced without them," or whatever as the consensus seems to be. But springing them after the fact, and misrepresenting them as DLC, is underhanded and shows Capcom didn't want to bring attention to them from the outset.

Contrast this with Helldivers 2 that was upfront about MTs and are talked about positively:

Helldivers 2’s microtransactions won’t stop you from having a good time

You won’t be stuck in microtransaction hell

www.polygon.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1amy8c4

If you are straight up with your monetisation policy, people respond fairly. If you aren't, what exactly are you hiding and why?

 

[pcchen]

How is it not? Capcom weren't up front about it.

As I said before, they were.

 

[pharma]

As I said before, they were.

This came out March 22 2024.

Dragon's Dogma 2 - To Dragon's Dogma 2 players on Steam - Steam News

To all Dragon's Dogma 2 players We would like to update you on the status of the following items, about which we have received numerous comments from the community. To all those looking forward to this game, we sincerely apologize for any inconvenience. ■Crashes and bug fixes We are...

store.steampowered.com

 

[pcchen]

This came out March 22 2024.

View attachment 11090

Dragon's Dogma 2 - To Dragon's Dogma 2 players on Steam - Steam News

To all Dragon's Dogma 2 players We would like to update you on the status of the following items, about which we have received numerous comments from the community. To all those looking forward to this game, we sincerely apologize for any inconvenience. ■Crashes and bug fixes We are...

store.steampowered.com

As I said before, they already said something like "items in deluxe version could be sold later" when I pre-ordered the game last year.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Console players cannot use cheats and mods and not all PC players are interested in cheats/modding.

I already mentioned that not all players are interested in cheating, but some are due to a whole variety of reasons.

As to console players not being able to cheat? I beg to differ...

Konami Code - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's all the way back in 1986! And what about the Game Shark?

GameShark - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh look, paid cheating ... on console! Game Shark wasn't the only way to pay to cheat on console.

I guess it's harder to cheat on console now although you still can depending on game. I mean you can buy controllers with "auto" fire and "rapid" fire, basically paid cheating. Or even modded controllers to allow you to do far more via Macros.

Everything You Need to Know About Modded Controllers

This must-read mod guide unveils the secrets to becoming unstoppable on any gaming platform with modded controllers. Dominate the competition with rapid-fire, drop shots, and auto sprint using our pro tips for customizing triggers, buttons, and paddles on Xbox and PS5 game controllers.

7watts.com

If someone wanted to, you could create a macro on a modded controller to farm the items/money you would need to buy an in game consumable in most games on console. Oh no!

The only real difference, now the developer is charging for an "official" cheat and thus can benefit from people who want to cheat and people that don't want to cheat? ZERO EFFECT because (at least for this game) ... the game wasn't designed around microtransactions just like all the Konami games weren't developed around the Konami Code.

In an era of increasingly costly game development, why offer free cheats in game (Konami Code on console and Doom on PC are examples)?

And in the end, both could be supported in game as part of the original asking price with a few simple settings. Why should people with less time to enjoy a game have to pay a premium for what amounts to zero effort on the part of the devs to enable?

Yes they could, but the alternate question is, "Why shouldn't someone be charged for developer provided cheats?" A developer provide cheat is essentially "added content on top of the base game", much like DLC. Playing the base game you can get X items in Y amount of invested time. It's already common in many games to skip that for cosmetics, armor, weapons, etc. via DLC and in some cases consumables via either external DLC or in game MTX.

I guess I'm confused by the uproar, if you don't want to use it or don't like it, then don't buy it. I can certainly understand dissatisfaction if the game was designed around selling consumables, but as I mentioned from talking to people that I know IRL that are playing it and enjoying it, the MTX in game feels like an afterthought rather than a deliberate design decision. None of the MTX items are particularly hard to get in game with very little time investment from what I've been told. /shrug.

Regards,
SB

 

[pharma]

The article was updated overnight with additional editorial content.

KitGuru Games: Dragon’s Dogma 2 launch squandered by greed - KitGuru

While I'm typically more positive when it comes to discussing games, today we're going to be diving

www.kitguru.net

Now, what should have been a fantastic launch weekend for Capcom, and a big boon for the popularity of Dragon's Dogma as a franchise, has been utterly wasted. The high critic scores don't mean much when word of mouth amongst paying customers has turned overwhelmingly negative. Over on Steam, the game has already dropped to a ‘Mostly Negative' score based on over 11,000 user reviews. The subreddit for the game is also filled with complaints, as well as memes about how bad the game is. When the meme-makers turn against you, it tarnishes your reputation in ways that are not easy to fix – just look at Cyberpunk 2077. Even now, three years on and after a renewed wave of critical acclaim, there are still people who talk down on the game due to its launch troubles.

The main saving grace here is that most of these items and currencies are earnable in-game, and the critics that did review it for launch all played it without knowledge of the incoming microtransactions, which does suggest that they can be ignored for the most part, but the fact is, many are now going to be put off upon visiting the store page for the game. Prior to this, Capcom had a lot of goodwill built up amongst gamers but the fact is, that has now been traded off for overly pervasive monetisation.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes they could, but the alternate question is, "Why shouldn't someone be charged for developer provided cheats?"

Because these 'cheats' are absolutely zero effort.

A developer provide cheat is essentially "added content on top of the base game", much like DLC.

DLC requires developer work to create new assets. These IGCs are just incrementing an already present in-game counter.

Playing the base game you can get X items in Y amount of invested time. It's already common in many games to skip that for cosmetics, armor, weapons, etc. via DLC and in some cases consumables via either external DLC or in game MTX.

I guess I'm confused by the uproar

Because it wasn't explained up front. Every other game you mention where it's tolerated, it's because the game was clear about this up front. Every single time a game adds these retroactively, there's uproar.

The message coming from gamers who care and aren't shrugging their shoulders is simply, "be honest and up front." Personally I go one step further and say in game consumables shouldn't exist, but if they are optional I appreciate I'm in the minority. But all the 'faux rage' isn't faux at all and is consistent with how gamers respond to any developer selling a game and then immediately adding MTs to it.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I'm fine with MTX, but Shifty (ironically) is right that they should be upfront about it. ie. Not shifty.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Because it wasn't explained up front. Every other game you mention where it's tolerated, it's because the game was clear about this up front. Every single time a game adds these retroactively, there's uproar.

But was it not explained up front? Pcchen already mentioned that pre-orders already said items would be available for purchase after the game launches if you didn't want to get the deluxe edition (which includes in game currency, etc.).

Some reviewers have also mentioned that Capcom were upfront about it in their review packs, but they didn't mention it in their reviews because they decided to not read the review packets included with their review copy in order to avoid any potential spoilers.

I guess it's a communication problem that they didn't shout about it from the rooftops and provide even more noticable notifications during the pre-order process that you'd also be able to purchase many of the things included in the deluxe edition after the game released with real currency.

Ah, looking at some of the complaints on Steam, it isn't about there being microtransactions that most people can easily ignore, most of the complaints are about how Capcom, might, at some nebulous hypothetical point in the future make items in game cost so much in game currency that even though there's not much reason to buy in game currency right now for most people ... in that nebulous hypothetical future that in game inflation might make them "need" to buy in game currency with real money.

So, it's complaints that at some point in the future, Capcom might try to make people feel like they need to buy in game currency or reduce drop rates drastically or something else nefarious. Meh. If that time comes and if Capcom do it, that's the time to roast them for it. But roasting them for hypothetical future abuses of the system?

It's interesting that Monster Hunter World has far FAR more microtransactions (introduced after the game launched), but I don't recall there ever being this much uproar over it.

Regards,
SB

 

[orangpelupa]

"Prior to this, Capcom had a lot of goodwill built up amongst gamers but the fact is, that has now been traded off for overly pervasive monetisation"

uh...

• Capcom has been doing MTX for years for their games, including dragon's dogma 1. what goodwill built up related to MTX?
• the monetisation in DD2 was already annouced before launch (reviewers even got the MTX info in the usual "know this" review sheet)
• the MTX is optional

 

[pharma]

Personally I would never buy a game knowing that I could not restart the game (without paying for the MTX privilege). It might be a different story if the purchase price of the game was $5.00 (instead of $70.00) and pay $1.00 for the privilege of replaying but that's about it. Sounds like MTX are lock step with some people but don't think I'd ever be that naive to indulge the devs.

 

[arandomguy]

I think you can manually delete the save files to restart without the required in game or MTX item?

But this is just 2nd hand information. I found the idea of not being able to restart a SP game without MTX or an ingame grinded item to be hilarious so was just searching for the details regarding it.

 

[orangpelupa]

Personally I would never buy a game knowing that I could not restart the game (without paying for the MTX privilege). It might be a different story if the purchase price of the game was $5.00 (instead of $70.00) and pay $1.00 for the privilege of replaying but that's about it. Sounds like MTX are lock step with some people but don't think I'd ever be that naive to indulge the devs.

its cumbersome (depending on your platform UX) but you can delete the save file for your profile.

IIRC this is the exact same issue in DD1.

so i think all of these weird annoying baffling design decision are simply their vision.

 

[BoardBonobo]

I had a look at the dreaded MTX in the store lastnight and there is nothingn there that I haven't already found in game. Though for 70p I can save myself the trouble of looking for certain items. Basically it's 100% optional so, personally, I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[pharma]

Probably before considering any MTX I would look at the Dragon Dogma 2 Nexusmods section to see if anything offered similar functionality.
https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonsdogma2

When playing Skyrim some nexusmods really added value.

 

[pcchen]

Personally I would never buy a game knowing that I could not restart the game (without paying for the MTX privilege). It might be a different story if the purchase price of the game was $5.00 (instead of $70.00) and pay $1.00 for the privilege of replaying but that's about it. Sounds like MTX are lock step with some people but don't think I'd ever be that naive to indulge the devs.

That item is for changing your looks. It does not reset your save. It can't even reset your race or "body type" (i.e. male or female).
The whole MTX debacle is so pathetic because there are so many misinformation throwing around. Those game media are either incompetent or malicious, I don't know which is worse.

 

[orangpelupa]

Personally I would never buy a game knowing that I could not restart the game (without paying for the MTX privilege). It might be a different story if the purchase price of the game was $5.00 (instead of $70.00) and pay $1.00 for the privilege of replaying but that's about it. Sounds like MTX are lock step with some people but don't think I'd ever be that naive to indulge the devs.

Btw to be clear, there's no way to restart the game in ab official way.

Be it paid or not.

This new feature of restarting the game is coming in future update