Pipe down, you non-capitalizing, message board-using fan boy!
MS's "rush to next-gen could see the Xbox take a tumble
- Thread starter Wunderchu
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I'm surprised this thread actually lasted this long before turning into a flame war!! 7 Whole pages! That must be a record...
london-boy said:
Flame war?? Where? *looking around*
Its not quite a flame war yet, but pro Sony, MS, or whatever, some of us are just questioning the logic presented here. Esp. given the hardwares are not released yet.
Its amazes me some ppl can claim MS has learnt from all the mistakes from the Xbox and will create a top next-gen Box, but then turn around and state Sony will deliver a poor graphics solution (ala PS2 GS). :?
I am wrong in getting the impression the GPU/VPU in the PC world is heading towards more programmability??
jvd said:
I didn't say you were WRONG, I was just trying to understand how you at this point can say with such certainty ATi will deliver the better graphics chip. That's all. Jesus, didn't you get your beauty sleep or something today, huh?
Jov said:
No, who said that? It's clear PC GPUs are heading that way.
Guden Oden said:jvd said:
I didn't say you were WRONG, I was just trying to understand how you at this point can say with such certainty ATi will deliver the better graphics chip. That's all. Jesus, didn't you get your beauty sleep or something today, huh?
From what I've read, basically he's basing his opinion on the fact that ATI is knee deep in cutting-edge GPU design, while Sony is not, and its not apparant that they are aligning themselves with a company that is.
Jov said:london-boy said:
No one said that.. Sorry, meant "am I" and left out the /sarcasm/
And LB you get a *virtual* Smarty prize for bring up this point!!
Come DX10/DXNext, programmability will be even more central than it already is today. And eventually fixed function will be no more.
GwymWeepa said:
I've said it before consumers have short memories
. Lets take a trip back in the not so distant past to when the PS2 came out and demo of the GSCube, etc.Where were ATI and others at the time with their tech? Now don't get me wrong, I am not stating Sony will have such a leap again, but I am no ruling them out either.
Jov said:GwymWeepa said:
I've said it before consumers have short memories
Where were ATI and others at the time with their tech? Now don't get me wrong, I am not stating Sony will have such a leap again, but I am no ruling them out either.
GScube was never commercially viable. I assume it was very expensive.
So, technologically Sony might have been ahead, but they need the capability to transform their supposedly advanced technology into something affordable that they can sell to the public. ATI can do that and they've confirmed it time and time again. It still has to be seen how Sony can face this problem.
london-boy said:Jov said:I've said it before consumers have short memories
Where were ATi and others at the time with their tech? Now don't get me wrong, I am not stating Sony will have such a leap again, but I am no ruling them out either.
GScube was never commercially viable. I assume it was very expensive.
So, technologically Sony might have been ahead, but they need the capability to transform their supposedly advanced technology into something affordable that they can sell to the public. ATI can do that and they've confirmed it time and time again. It still has to be seen how Sony can face this problem.
Where was ATi when the PS2 came out? Advanced in graphics tech and making it commerically viable are two seperate topics here in this thread.
So we agreed Sony can produce technically superior graphics H/W compared to others?
Now GwymWeepa's point was Sony "needs to aligning themselves with a company that has apparent bleeding edge GPU" for Sony to give the impression they won't f*ck up the PS3 or similar.
As for process advancement, do you not count the single chip solution of the EE+GS?
Jov said:
Hey, chill matey, i'm in pure conversational-friendly-lets-talk mode...
As i said, it's all to be seen how Sony can make their supposedly more advanced technology into something affordable. And even if they do, they will slap the usual Sony Premium on top of it, you know, the one that magically makes any Sony product more expensive than competitors products at the same level of quality.
Really, i'm not saying Sony can't do it, i'm just saying, we know nothing at this time to be any more optimistic than pessimistic and vice versa. I'm perfectly neutral. Mostly because i couldn't give a flying donkey about it, since i have other, real, problems
releasing the radeon. working on the 8500 .
I could voice my views on the gs again but i will be bashed .
My views on the gs are the same .
I based my opinion on the fact that since 1999 ati has continued to release new tech , continueing to refine and evlove thier tech and patents .
I see no problem with my opinion and how I came about it .
its ati's job to make vpus . THat is what they do. They have took time to develop and test new ideas and hardware .
If you disagree with me that is cool.
I don't agree .
sony was working on fixed platforms .
We can compare artx (since it is now a part of ati) with sony though.
n64 vs psone , gamecube vs / ps2. Both aren't realyl fair comparisons because fo the delay between the systems launches though.
when this happend the gs in the ps2 and gscube was primitive (That of a voodoo feature set ) compared to the geforce and the radeon
THe gs did have a crap load of fillrate though
No one ever said that sony can't make a good vpu. I just don't believe they can make one as well as ati / nvidia could .
GwymWeepa said:
Sony's not known for its cutting-edge CPU designs either, yet we have Emotion Engine, Broadband Engine etc. So, you were saying...?
Basing opinions on the LACK of information is always dumb. FACT is we don't know what they're doing, so claiming now at this point in time they'll lose is definitely selling the bear's hide before it's been shot, so to speak.
jvd said:
[bitch mode]
Sure about that last part?
[/bitch mode]
OK I see your point, but that's not really flogging a franchise name. What I take true flogging is if MS took the Halo name/franchise and used it in as many ways as possible. Essientially trying to sell a new game based off the popularity of Halo using the same name, regardless of the actual content of the game. That's somehting nintendo has done to perfection over the years, better than anyone else.
To be honest, I wish nintendo would design some new chracters as I have honetly gotten tired of the same franchise characters being used in thier games over the years.
jvd:
And Xenon isn't a fixed platform?
Just because the feature-set was primitive, doesn't mean the performance was aswell. It was just a different approach which worked out extremely well. How does this prove that ATi delivered better if they used a completely different approach in their radeon cards?
jvd said:
And Xenon isn't a fixed platform?
jvd said:
Just because the feature-set was primitive, doesn't mean the performance was aswell. It was just a different approach which worked out extremely well. How does this prove that ATi delivered better if they used a completely different approach in their radeon cards?
When GS came out, Radeons were out. GS can draw 75 millions raw polygons peak. Radeons can't. GS has an immense 2.4Gpixel fillrate. Radeons don't. GS has a limited feature set. Radeons have a feature set that can't be used due to poor performance when using them.
That was just to put things in perspective................
That was just to put things in perspective................
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