MS only to ship 4.5-5.5 million by June 2006

[mckmas8808]

"power" was never an advantage in reality for xbox. Each generation the most powerful hardware does not win the biggest share of the market.

Sorry I don't even have an Xbox and I know this was MS biggest advantage. It's the main reason people choose the Xbox over the PS2 in the beginning.

 

[scooby_dooby]

But they needed that since they had extremely weak 3rd party support, and not 1 single franchise.

Now it's a completely different situation. 3rd party support coming out the ying-yang, and lots of excellent franchises.

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Just a something to point out... it's been my experience that any sense of nationalism within Japan in term of business is something that's been born out of the enviroment Japan grew up in. Geh... err, listen, Japan got steamrolled in the WWII, they had to rebuild and as such they had to maintain a strong sense of pride and fortitude (WE CAN DO IT!) for their products to really survive. Combine that with the fact that from a resource perspective Japan is heavily starved, and thus has to import a lot of materials, and now the aftermath of the bubble economy, it's not really surprising that Japan is economically playing it close to the chest, any country would. The rest of the world takes it as "HA HA HA, stupid Gaijin!! Our products are superior! HA HA HA!", but back in the 80s when Japan's economy was going nuts and eating up US products, what'd the US do? "BUY AMERICAN!!". It's perspective folks. Really, if you go to Japan they LOVE US products and culture. It's like gamers in the US "Oh, Japan is teh WIN!" only in reverse. Just look at Apple or how popular US musicians are there. I think a lot of people confuse doing what's best for your country with nationalism or even jingoism (!!) these days. Well, least that's how I feel.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

It's pretty idiotic to compare MS to Sega. Does anyone seriously believe that MS is not a serious player now?

 

[<nu>faust]

its not like i'm an expert on japan or anything but from my experience(visiting few times,having some japanese friends livin' in us,reading on the issue) i can clearly tell that japanese people's facination with us and american culture is undeniable. Of course this facination is not just in a friendly adoring loving way(it more like love and hate) but saying japanese people always prefer japanese products(cultural or material) over foreign ones no matter what is not accurate statement.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's pretty idiotic to compare MS to Sega. Does anyone seriously believe that MS is not a serious player now?

One word. NO!

 

[jvd]

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby

Wow two guys said the samething back to back. Had a better name? Should you be saying they have a better name so far? You make this sound like the 360 has already came out and is over with. How did they take half the market with their second console?

Making the right decisions at the the right time is hardly luck, it's smart gutsy business.

As for what MS has know that N didn't have? - Exclusive dev's like Bungie, Bioware, Mistwalker, Real Time Worlds, Team Ninja, Lionhead etc, 100% support from the worlds largest publishers EA, Activision etc, support from Square Enix. Well... that's a start no?



I do agree with you here scooby. You're right Xbox 360 does seem to have better games then the N64 had.

Of course they have a better name .

In 2001 when the xbox launched how many people knew about it ? How many people had heard of the xbox before ? Mostly just the gamers that read magazines . But they had no name. They had the ms name , but that doesn't mean much outside of the os and office world .

Now the xbox brand has been built up. There are around 20million people from last gen that owned an xbox brand product and i would expect that some of that base will carry over just like i expect some of the sony base to cary over .

Not only that but now many gamers will see they are on thier second console. They will see that ms is here for hte long term and there will be an xbox 3. They will also see brand games that were built up over the last few years .

Its a much betterspot than what they were in last generation .

 

[Thegameman]

But you have to consider that the xbox came from nowhere. Why should people buy it? Why should they trust MS? How long is it going to last? WIll be it be a failure like dreamcast? PS2 was the safe bet and had established franshices. Comming as a newcommer with no backing what so ever into the console arena, and selling more than than Nintendo and 25% of Sony, I don't think that that is a small thing...

Yes thats true but so did sony when Nintendo and Sega were just finishing a brutal battle for the console market which Nintendo win,and sony whent to do what other consoles from Nintendo din't,make the market grow with over 100 million consoles sold,which is far from Nintendo's best console the Nes which sold 60+ millions.


From a games point of view the xbox was much more succesful than the DC,from a consumer stand point of view it was a disaster,people realy din't see it like they see the PS2,even to this moment the PS2 continue to outsold the xbox and even the GC combined each month in US which is MS best market.


But people had to give them credict for getting so much games with so little user base,if you compare it to the GC which was release first and have less games from 3rd parties.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes thats true but so did sony when Nintendo and Sega were just finishing a brutal battle for the console market which Nintendo win,and sony whent to do what other consoles from Nintendo din't,make the market grow with over 100 million consoles sold,which is far from Nintendo's best console the Nes which sold 60+ millions.


From a games point of view the xbox was much more succesful than the DC,from a consumer stand point of view it was a disaster,people realy din't see it like they see the PS2,even to this moment the PS2 continue to outsold the xbox and even the GC combined each month in US which is MS best market.


But people had to give them credict for getting so much games with so little user base,if you compare it to the GC which was release first and have less games from 3rd parties.

QFT.

 

[one]

It's true, there are differences in prouduct tastes such as Americans like things big while they like things compact but, while I'm an outsider for sure in the Japanese way of life, from what I understand, "nationalism" or "homerism" plays an aspect in their business and consumer culture, moreso than the US, who love foreign goods. The US has a much higher import/export ratio than they do and the two nations are about the same in terms of industrialization and labor costs.

So most Japanese people use TRON instead of Microsoft Windows?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Of course they have a better name....

THe middle 2 paragraphs are mine, the outer 2 are MckMass I think...

 

[Thegameman]

The Saturn sold less than 10 million units total, and that is less than half of the Xbox userbase.

And how is the Xbox vs. PS2 sales at all relevent to my comments or points?



I like your last sentence, because it says it all. WHEN COMPARED TO THE PS@.

Well, don't compare it to the PS2. Compare it to MS's console userbase from the previous generation, which was ZERO. Going from ZERO to 22+ million is a success.

Going from 35+ million down to less than 10 million like Sega did was a failure. If you don't see the difference then try removing the ****** sunglasses.



It was a very desirable option that the DC didn't have at all.



Sure it did. Financial strength is what made the Xbox last 4 years and made sure the 360 was a reality. do you think MS would have persued the 360 project if they were in as bad of a financial position as Sega was in 2008? Not a chance.




And there are a million reasons for that, most of which you obviously are ignorant of.

When the Xbox launched it had absolutely no previous userbase. Developers didn't support it because they didn't know how well it would see, and consumers didn't support it because the rumor was Nintendo and Sony would going to flatten them and MS would drop out of the console race.

Clearly neither of those problems exist now. Developers are giving the 360 tons of support (Even giving the 360 new versions of formerly Playstation exclusive titles) and consumers have absolutely no fears about MS staying around or getting good games.

The first year of the PS2 it enjoyed success based off the Playstation. The first 2 years of the Xbox MS had to struggle and fight to make a dent in the market because they were the great unknown.



And I shouldn't have to explain the implications of the 9-11 terrorist attacks only 2 months before the Xbox launch and how that effected consumer confidence and sales.


I'm not saying the Xbox 360 is going to outsell the PS3 by the end of next-gen, but I think even implying the 360 is another Dreamcast is beyond ignorant. It's just plain dumb.

Cuz the xbox 360 is the succesor to a failed console,if sega would had 4 billions to blow on the DC,it would have sold alot more than what the Xbox did,in fact Nintendo make profit out of the GC and sold what 18 or 19 million consoles,which is what 4 million away from the xbox which has alot more suport?


You say from zero to 20 million is a succes with a market so spanded as it is now,the Nes whent from zero to 60+ million the PS whent from zero to 100 million.

As you can see the closes is the Nes and it sold 3 times what the xbox sold,the PS sold 5 times.


MS din't have another console before the Xbox but they are one of the most known companys in this world,and their software is use for gaming on PC which has alot of millions of gamers as well.


Also how is that diferent from what happen to Nintendo?


They sold 60+ millions Nes,down to 50+ Snes does that mean the Snes was a failure?


Wait but the N64 sold like 30+ should we callk it a failure,when it sold 10+ million consoles more than the xbox with less suport cuz it sold less than the Snes?


Seling 22 million consoles with the kind of..

Money MS has invested on the xbox and loss what 4 billions.

With features build in that the other company sold apart HDD.

And with suport from almost every company making game for PS2.


No my friend that is more of and escuse than a fact,the xbox failed to capture a big share of the market vs a console which is older under power and that doesn't have a HDD build in,in fact many people say the GC is a failure cuz it din't sold what the N64 did,yet is close to the xbox and did make profits for Nintendo so how is the GC a failure is beyon logic to me.



The DC din't had it at all but by the time the PS2 was seling great the DC was $150 and then $99 and DVD player where $150 as well,by 2001 any one could buy a DC and a DVD player for far less than what the xbox would have cost you with the remote to see movies,but the fact is you had to buy a remote control,which was a joke cuz the PS2 was free and it wasn't like the xbox could not do it,they just luck it so you have to pay more.



The DC lasted almost 3 year with sega's finalcial problems,there is no reason on this planet why the xbox should not live until 2007,it as the last to the market and it is the first to be kill,but taking away the only factor in which money has serve MS to keep the xbox alive,how did it serve them vs the PS2 did it slow it down did the people reacted better to the xbox than to the PS2 cuz MS has very deep pockets,did it even capture 40% of the market....


Nothing my firend other than keeping the xbox alive and putting some nasty losses on MS deep pockets,is the reason why MS want to leave the xbox on back already,MS din't get to be as it is now blowing 4 billions on every product they make,if they don't see profits with the xbox 360 i think they will not compete again.


In fact what you say about the xbox not having suport is dead wrong,to begin with EA was on board so was alot of developers that say it,from Konami to capcom sega you name it,also what many people were thinking over the net was that MS with it's deep pockets would take the market from Sony hands,Nintendo was not even a problem for MS.


The PS2 make it the first year cuz just like the xbox it had games,is incredible that after so many years poeople still try to put down the PS2,cuz it clean the floor with any one including the great unknow company you claim to be which is not so unknown to begin with.


MS is one of the biggest companys in the wolrd,saying MS is getting into your business mean you have some big trouble.

If you think that MS was unknown when they release the xbox you are the one to need to take your goggles away my friend.


Unproven on the console market like Sony once was yes i give you that,but unknown i don't think so.


Lest see the PS2 had Tekken Tag,which is like the most popular fighting game for a PS console the first game ever to sold a million copys on PS.


Madden 2001 this one i don't even have to speak for it.

SSX which was a fresh new gamewhich also landed like Tekken and Madden great scores.


Compare to DOA 2.5 for the xbox which isn't as popular or as good as Tekken,PGR which was also release for DC by the name of MSR the same year the xbox was launch,in fact it god more hype as a DC game when it was tag as GT killer for months only to fell short by miles even to GT2 which was on PS with horrible graphics compare to MSR.


And Halo which another game of the bunch until MS buy Bugie and hype it as the be all end all of games,which was great but not the be all end all they claimed to be.

And I shouldn't have to explain the implications of the 9-11 terrorist attacks only 2 months before the Xbox launch and how that effected consumer confidence and sales.

I don't wnat to quote like this but this part here deserve it.


That is the worst escuse i had ever hear to justifie xbox low sales,escuse me and correct me if i'm wrong that was the first holiday season for the Xbox and the GC,in that case i would have to say that consumer were selective cuz they did buy the PS2 with confidence yet they din't do the same with the GC and Xbox.


The PS2 sold 3 million units that holiday outseling the xbox and GC combined.


Dude that is realy a bad escuse the PS2 sold extremely well that holiday outseling both combined.

It would have sound better if you say that the Xbox and the Cube landed into GTA3,MGS2 and FFX which was release on december 2001.


We have to see,the graphical advatage was one of the xbox key features,so was the HDD and but has gone away.

 

[g35er]

So most Japanese people use TRON instead of Microsoft Windows?

Like anyone else, they use Windows because that is the OS for which most business and consumer software is written. It's a platform. I don't know about TRON. Do they have thousands of software written for them?
If you want to compare buying preferences, you have to compare two like items, such as cars, electronics, computers, and even video game software. The Japanese and foreign counterparts are functionally equivalent. The only difference is quality.

As for the XBox's "success", this much can be said--they established a good brand. They didn't do anything major to screw the buying public the way Sega and Nintendo did in the past, such as using proprietary or obsolete media, selling unsupported add-ons, or the biggie--not having a large library of software to choose. Sony also really never messed up in their two consoles.

20 million Xbox's sold is mediocre, neither a success or failiure. Calling it either is too extreme.

 

[Qroach]

mckmas8808,

Sorry I don't even have an Xbox and I know this was MS biggest advantage. It's the main reason people choose the Xbox over the PS2 in the beginning.

I think you purposely are ignoring reason. look back and notice that the most successful consoles were not using the most advanced hardware (compared to comeptitors) in each generation. You don't need to own an xbox to look at past trends.

 

[mckmas8808]

mckmas8808,



I think you purposely are ignoring reason. look back and notice that the most successful consoles were not using the most advanced hardware (compared to comeptitors) in each generation. You don't need to own an xbox to look at past trends.

Whoa nelly. I know the most advanced hardware doesn't give you an automatic win. I was saying some people brought the Xbox because it had and still has the best graphics for a current gen console.

 

[expletive]

Microsoft has slightly revised its shipment estimates for end June, over 3 million sold at the moment:

However, particularly relevant to the video game press were comments made in the conference call following the results, during which officials revealed plans for five to five and a half million Xbox 360s to ship to stores worldwide before June 30th, the end of the company's fiscal year. This was up marginally on the previous 4.5-5.5 million estimate.

The company also revealed that it had shipped 3.2 million Xbox 360s thus far, including 1.8 million in North America, according to a TheStreet.com report, after repeated shortages due to manufacturing problems stymied many consumers over the holiday period and early 2006. However, Microsoft VP Peter Moore commented in a post-results call: "Our supply challenges are behind us operationally". The company also announced 10 million Xbox Live Marketplace downloads, including over 4 million Xbox Live Arcade games - though many of these were not paid, obviously.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9085

I bet MS cant wait to put the xbox1 to rest, theyre still losing money on it...

However, the division's loss increased "...due to an increase in product costs and sales and marketing expenses related to the Xbox 360 and due to the significant margin generated by Halo2 in fiscal year 2005." The document explained: "Our business model anticipates that while we currently sell Xbox 360 consoles at a negative margin, product cost reductions and the future margins on sales of games and other products will enable us to achieve a positive margin over the Xbox 360 console lifecycle." However, it noted that "...the first generation Xbox consoles continue to have negative margins." Microsoft's financials on the Home and Entertainment division ended: "We expect operating expenses and operating loss to increase as a result of Xbox 360 launch-related activities and Xbox 360 console costs."

 

[Qroach]

Whoa nelly. I know the most advanced hardware doesn't give you an automatic win. I was saying some people brought the Xbox because it had and still has the best graphics for a current gen console.

To say that was an advantage is still stretching it. it was thouroghly proven having the msot advance hardware got you essentially nothing as far as market share. a very small minority of people bought an xbox due to the hardware that was inside.

 

[speng]

To say that was an advantage is still stretching it. it was thouroghly proven having the msot advance hardware got you essentially nothing as far as market share. a very small minority of people bought an xbox due to the hardware that was inside.

Hmm, everyone, and I mean everyone I know who bought an XBox did so because they think it has the best graphics among the current gen consoles. Which means, it is the hardware inside.

None of them bought it for the games, but that could have been because they bought it early before Halo came out, where a few people would buy it just for that.

Not something to go statistically by, but I think if you do a poll here that'd be the main reason.

Speng.

 

[weaksauce]

ze xbox360 is gonna reach one billion peopple!

btw ps2 costed $100 more than DC but still outsold it.

 

[ElStupido]

Hmm, everyone, and I mean everyone I know who bought an XBox did so because they think it has the best graphics among the current gen consoles. Which means, it is the hardware inside.

None of them bought it for the games, but that could have been because they bought it early before Halo came out, where a few people would buy it just for that.

Not something to go statistically by, but I think if you do a poll here that'd be the main reason.

Speng.

all of the ppl I know bought the console for its hacked media center capabilities and the ability to play isos from the hd (-> pirating games in the most pleasurable fashion....).
So a large percentage of sales were motivated by better graphics, as you said, and the hackable capabilities.
Also Halo, being the system-seller in the us, is not that popular in the rest of the world, plz believe. Also the credit card payment system for xbox live acounts was highly unpopular in the eu because we don't have/need CCs in our daily lives as much as the americans do, just a small percentage uses CCs over here and they're mostly adults (like 35>). That's why MS in 05! introduced a prepaid CC so that more ppl would use live.
In germany the 360's price drops significantly because the sales are down. there were also no shortages in germany because the xboxes were never sold out (similar to japan).
All in all it seems like the xbox360 won't be successefull outside north america like it's i predecessor. ppl are also turned off by the myriads of shooters and pc-ports.