Ellewood and Brooklin coming late 2024. Based on this slide:
It seems like they refresh a bunch of things, but don't add more ram, or a more powerful apu.
MS leak illustrates new console development cycle
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
- Start date
Ellewood and Brooklin coming late 2024. Based on this slide:
It seems like they refresh a bunch of things, but don't add more ram, or a more powerful apu.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
IMO there's no point to making a more powerful mid-gen version if the software to exploit the existing hardware is only just now starting to materialize. Even Starfield wasn't developed mainly on the new hardware.
Forza, Hellblade 2, Fable etc... should be next-gen only enough to impress gamers and by the time these teams get out their next games it will be 2028 and the new generation will be starting. The game development cycle for AAA games is so long now that the hardware release pace can likely slow down a little. With that being said I would certainly buy a mid-gen Xbox that plays 30 fps games at 60 fps, but most consumers don't care IMO.
Forza, Hellblade 2, Fable etc... should be next-gen only enough to impress gamers and by the time these teams get out their next games it will be 2028 and the new generation will be starting. The game development cycle for AAA games is so long now that the hardware release pace can likely slow down a little. With that being said I would certainly buy a mid-gen Xbox that plays 30 fps games at 60 fps, but most consumers don't care IMO.
It certainly shows that it was not in Microsoft's plans back around 2020-2021. Things could have changed by now, but it's hard to pivot to entirely new plans in the console business. There's a lot of ducks you need to get in a row before you can launch one of these things, and it means getting to work on this stuff years ahead of time.
So no, not necessarily confirmation, but it makes it a lot less likely. Microsoft would really need to scramble to put everything together for a well-thought out upgrade design and strategy that isn't gonna simply be too late to the party to matter.
vjPiedPiper
Newcomer
I think this is key! Last gen the Pro consoles allowed the current Gen games to go from targeting a 1080p display to targeting a 4K display.
This gen I think a Pro console really needs to enable the 30fps experience at 60fps.
Sadly I dont think thats going to happen
Especially with RT effects, a lot of it is still CPU bound, so just going 2x or more on the GPU and RT capabilities still wont get you there.
If your Pro console is just native is 30% than the Non-Pro version but Both are still targeting 4K output, imho it's not enough to justify the upgrade.
Basically it boils down to PS5 = FSR 2 @ performance, PS5 Pro = FSR 2 @ Balanced/Quality.
Still exciting to think about what possible PS5 might be, but i'll be a monkey uncle if provides the 30fps quality @ 60fps, for most titles.
that leak is mid-age in terms of technology and it hasn't aged well, but articles like this help to understand some of the reasons behind the changes, although what Phil Spencer said about a new, most powerful console ever, might be true....
www.pcgamer.com
Hello, PC gaming here: Are the consoles OK?
With sales dropping and confidence declining, how close are we to the end of consoles as we know them?
Charlietus
Regular
That is such a terrible article. When will people understand that PC and console are different product categories?that leak is mid-age in terms of technology and it hasn't aged well, but articles like this help to understand some of the reasons behind the changes, although what Phil Spencer said about a new, most powerful console ever, might be true....
Hello, PC gaming here: Are the consoles OK?
With sales dropping and confidence declining, how close are we to the end of consoles as we know them?
cheapchips
Veteran
Thinking back on these 2022 slides, I wonder at what point they decided to do the confirmed handheld and maybe 2026 nextgen console.
If the handheld's just compatible with Series S profile titles, that chops an awful lot out from this timeline.
For a 2026 next gen launch though. What are they cutting out of this?
Their 'forward compatibility' & possible rolling generations / closer to Windows would rip up the Launch Content and Creator Platform lines on here?
If the handheld's just compatible with Series S profile titles, that chops an awful lot out from this timeline.
For a 2026 next gen launch though. What are they cutting out of this?
Their 'forward compatibility' & possible rolling generations / closer to Windows would rip up the Launch Content and Creator Platform lines on here?
I think ARM is an inevitable thing on consoles. What has to be weighed up is the teething issues of making the transition to it in ~2026-2028 (primarily BC) vs waiting until ~2035-2036. Then by the middle of the next decade, what even are "consoles".
Both as a console market leader and in terms of pinning down their plans, I'm admittedly coming from a PlayStation-centric viewpoint when looking at console gens: I often see the argument that ARM doesn't make sense for the higher end, but then you have to take into consideration that console CPUs don't really have to hit the very high end. The Zen 2's in PS5/XS are around 75% of the perf of equal-core count desktop units of the launch period (plus PS5's implementation has a cut Cache and FPU). If they can build an ARM-based APU or an ARM chiplet in 2028 that is around 70%+ of the effective performance of an equivalent x86 AMD chip in 2026-2028 while bring it in cheaper, smaller and more efficient, it may make sense. Assuming of course they could cleanly emulate the PS4/PS5 and XS/X1 CPUs.
Both as a console market leader and in terms of pinning down their plans, I'm admittedly coming from a PlayStation-centric viewpoint when looking at console gens: I often see the argument that ARM doesn't make sense for the higher end, but then you have to take into consideration that console CPUs don't really have to hit the very high end. The Zen 2's in PS5/XS are around 75% of the perf of equal-core count desktop units of the launch period (plus PS5's implementation has a cut Cache and FPU). If they can build an ARM-based APU or an ARM chiplet in 2028 that is around 70%+ of the effective performance of an equivalent x86 AMD chip in 2026-2028 while bring it in cheaper, smaller and more efficient, it may make sense. Assuming of course they could cleanly emulate the PS4/PS5 and XS/X1 CPUs.
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the handheld device started back in august 2023, so almost a year ago. But the rumour isn't new, and the rumour about a Xbox handheld existed back in 2021.
Also an incredible, gorgeous concept for a Xbox handheld was shown by a TikTok user. The little screen showing your games' library really surprised me.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Interesting (well, largely obvious) post on Twitter from Mike Ybarra, MS VP
(Note he doesn't work for Xbox)
So a bit of cold water poured on the idea that MS will continue XBox hardware but as bespoke PC's - maybe, but seems to be far more Surface-like niche, if even smaller. Making Windows simply better for gaming, or at least handheld form factors as has been requested in the past seems doable.
Mike Ybarra said:
(Note he doesn't work for Xbox)
So a bit of cold water poured on the idea that MS will continue XBox hardware but as bespoke PC's - maybe, but seems to be far more Surface-like niche, if even smaller. Making Windows simply better for gaming, or at least handheld form factors as has been requested in the past seems doable.
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Leaving the hardware platform to the usual rogue's gallery of Taiwanese PC companies seems like a recipe for having an abysmal sales and product experience. Too many SKUs, none of them great, poor support, ugly design, bloatware, etc. If they want to at least rise to the level of mediocrity they're going to have to get involved themselves.
cheapchips
Veteran
Well, that's the whole point of the Surface devices isn't it?
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
And how well do you think they achieved that goal, of 'uplifting' the rest of the OEM ecosystem? They're just as shitty as they always were.
I don't think they really care, if the PC ecosystem doesn't provide the right experience they'll just play them on PS5/Nintendo. It's about the software sales. Their entire history with Xbox has been about losing billions on hardware, I think they just want out of that.
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We're already likely to see the smallest leap in CPU performance ever for the next generation of consoles, so I think compromising even more on performance is a bad idea.
Ybarra is right on some points. My only doubt is related to making new hardware..., Phil Spencer said that they are experimenting with different form factors, and that clearly sounds like:
- they are working on a new xbox console and some kind of hybrid handheld using an adapted version of Windows.
- they are just adapting Windows to work well with any form factor and let others create the hardware while providing the software for a totally seamless experience on Windows when playing games.
The first choice seems more plausible to me, but I wouldn't hold my breath expecting new hardware from MS.
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I've been talking about it since 2019/2020. I've held a prototype in my hand along with some vr headsets they never released and some other devices
how so? Do you live close to Redmond if that's not asking much?
I worked for MS for a number of years prior to and after covid.
