MS announces "XNA"

Tahir said:
Is XNA more akin to middleware for developers like Renderware?
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AFAIK it's some common dev environment for all three platforms for not very platform specific things. Whether it's going to be some shitty cross compiler only or something better... I have no idea... ;)
 
XNA looks like a good move based on what I've read so far (the ign interview and part of the ms xna site). Anything that makes it possible for game devs to do more with less time, cost, and effort is certainly A Good Thing for devs and players alike.

I'd like to hear from the game devs themselves... what are your first impressions?
 
All three demos looked completely realtime to me. I did not see any tell-tale signs of them being pre-rendered CGI. In fact. I *did* see some tell-tale signs of them being real-time. the aformentioned aliasing, is one example.

I would not have been totally surprised if they had been done on ATI's current R350/R360, but more than likely, those demos were on the new R420.


Although the videos - which are freely available for download from [Microsoft's XNA website] - are certainly meant to showcase the potential of next generation hardware, these are not the rumoured Xbox 2 tech demos - and in fact were allegedly running on a Windows XP PC with a sample of a next generation graphics card. Impressive as they are, the technology in these demos is quite a long way behind what we'd expect to see from next generation consoles.
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http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=3180
 
:oops:
in that crash demo, the deformation engine is the best I have ever seen so far. There's no way any racing game getting even close in any platform right now.
 
CHRIS DONAHUE: So all the demos today are going to be running on Windows XP with next generation ATI hardware. Some of the components of XNA that you'll see will be HLSL, XACT. We're also using the common controller interfaces and we're running controller S on Windows XP right now.
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From the text of the GDC presentation. Unless "next generation ATI hardware" refers to r500, this completely confirms that r420 runs these demos in real time. :oops:


edit: upon thinking about this for a moment, it seems most likely this was built using the Xbox 2 dev kits that are rumored to be out and about. I find it interesting that r420 hardware is out there but no leaks of aa screenshots, benchmarks, or even firm hardware specs. (Or at least, no leaks that I've heard of yet... :LOL: )
 
Wow, those demos are SEXY. :oops:

Hopefully the anti-MS brigade can looks past their preconceptions on this one. Seems like a decent initiative.
 
Based on the gdc text linked to above, it seems the crash demo isn't only in real time.... it's interactive! :!: :oops: :!:
CHRIS DONAHUE: What's the real magic David put in?

LAURA FRYER: Well, let's drive and find out.

CHRIS DONAHUE: All right. (Video effects.) (Cheers, applause.)

J ALLARD: That's a cool software/hardware interface.

LAURA FRYER: All right, we've got to try it again. You know, everything changes but we've got to do it.

J ALLARD: So these guys modeled like every part, right?

LAURA FRYER: Oh yeah. We've got double wishbone suspension. (Video effects.)

J ALLARD: Is that the best you can do?

LAURA FRYER: It is the best I can do. You want to try it?

J ALLARD: You're not driving for lunch.

LAURA FRYER: Why not?

J ALLARD: What you need is you need more speed and more angle and a little bit more road, I guess. (Laughter.)

CHRIS DONAHUE: Come on, David, we've got to work on this demo a little bit more.

J ALLARD: Let's see how much damage we can do here.

LAURA FRYER: All right. (Video effects.) (Cheers, applause.) That was awesome.

J ALLARD: That's what I'm talking about.

CHRIS DONAHUE: So this is my little friend here. This is the guy that didn't use XNA. (Laughter.) Sorry.

J ALLARD: It's all about better debris faster.

LAURA FRYER: It is.

CHRIS DONAHUE: Okay, so can we break 2 million?

LAURA FRYER: Go for it. It can be done.

J ALLARD: More speed, more speed.

CHRIS DONAHUE: One more.

J ALLARD: One more?

LAURA FRYER: One more?

AUDIENCE: Yeah!

J ALLARD: Louder! (Video effects.) (Applause.)

LAURA FRYER: We're taking it away. (Cheers, applause.)
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I thought the animation/physics rocked, but I wasn't blown away by the graphics. I guess I was hoping of a little more than shiny cars, fur renderers, and volumetric smoke/bloom effects. These videos, graphically, can be done on cards available in the next few months. I guess I wanted to see something that only the R500 or PS3 could do, even if it meant running at 5fps to demonstrate.
 
DemoCoder said:
These videos, graphically, can be done on cards available in the next few months.
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Well, yeah...I mean it was running on one of those cards.

I think people are getting away from the fact that these are not intended to be demos of X-Box Next.
 
Yep, but people still make that association because of the keynote today, and because MS did similar demos on the NV20 for the original XBox. I'm still waiting for someone to post notes on the keynote. The was a rumor of some XBox2 info dropped.
 
DemoCoder said:
Yep, but people still make that association because of the keynote today, and because MS did similar demos on the NV20 for the original XBox. I'm still waiting for someone to post notes on the keynote. The was a rumor of some XBox2 info dropped.
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the first realtime demos that Microsoft showed to give developers a small taste of what to expect graphics-wise with the original Xbox , were run on a GeForce 2 (NV15)
 
DemoCoder said:
Yep, but people still make that association because of the keynote today, and because MS did similar demos on the NV20 for the original XBox. I'm still waiting for someone to post notes on the keynote. The was a rumor of some XBox2 info dropped.
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I thought I just read the entire transcript of the key-note a couple hours ago? No real mention of X-Box2 there.

Though at the moment, the XNA site just as a placeholder...
 
Joe DeFuria said:
DemoCoder said:
Yep, but people still make that association because of the keynote today, and because MS did similar demos on the NV20 for the original XBox. I'm still waiting for someone to post notes on the keynote. The was a rumor of some XBox2 info dropped.
Click to expand...

I thought I just read the entire transcript of the key-note a couple hours ago? No real mention of X-Box2 there.

Though at the moment, the XNA site just as a placeholder...
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Looks like it's back up:

http://www.microsoft.com/xna/gdc_keynote.aspx
 
Fairly impressive demos. I look forward to seeing ATI's tech demo offerings.

Anyway, i thought this was rather funny...

http://www.microsoft.com/xna/faq.aspx

"Q: Is Microsoft XNA the name of the next Xbox?
A: No. Microsoft XNA is the name of Microsoft's new software development platform that dramatically improves the way games are produced.

Q: When is the next generation Xbox shipping?
A: It's too early to announce future-generation Xbox products. That said, Microsoft XNA propels us ahead of Sony in the next-generation games race because the future of gaming is in software, not hardware. At GDC you are seeing some of the early possibilities of what the future will bring. Everything that comes to Windows and Xbox in the years to come is only going to get better and better in our never-ending quest to meet customer expectations and bridge the gap with developer realities

Q: What's the difference between Microsoft's XNA and Sony's Cell?
A: In the next generation, software-not hardware-will drive the games industry forward. Microsoft XNA software brings together chip and OEM partners to ultimately deliver thousands of integrated digital entertainment devices that work together and give consumers choice. Sony is talking about a fixed world of hardware that requires everyone to buy everything Sony. Sony's Cell is a hardware solution. This is a software revolution. "

Looks like MS is claiming an early victory over Sony. I want to know, who exactly is asking these questions frequently.
 
For the benefit of the less technically-minded here (Digitalwanderer and I) , could someone give us an idea of the advanced techniques shown in those demos ? Is there anything to go "WOW" at from a technology point of view ?

Would it be fair to say that whilst we might have seen some of these efffects used in individual demos before , we haven't seen so many of them used at the same time all together and running in real-time on effectively a home PC ?

I must admit I thought the "Film Noir" was quite cool , if a developer was to come up with a game using that "black & white 50's film" look , I'd be very interested in looking at it .

Thanks

Mark
 
McDusty said:
Looks like MS is claiming an early victory over Sony.
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How so? Current thinking would seem to state that Microsoft's push to software over hardware (which was emphasized by the XBox1 over the year old PS2) is indicative of a shift in strategy due to what Sony's currently doing and has been doing wrt hardware development since 2000. XNA is great on it's own, but I think your above comment is a few months premature.
 
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