Moore: Xbox 360 HD-DVD for movies only and there will be no internal drive.

[Tap In]

Thats if ATI does put in a TMDS transmitters on their GPUs, so can Dave comment on that or not?

I have read (no time for linkage now) that the GPU does support it.

The MS output chip (designed by the old webTV crew) was where the distinction is made.

 

[BTOA]

I have read (no time for linkage now) that the GPU does support it.

The MS output chip (designed by the old webTV crew) was where the distinction is made.

I haven't read that anywhere, it'll be nice if you post a link to this.

 

[cthellis42]

Yeah, I know, that was just sarcasim directed at those that were argueing otherwise.

Ah. My bad. You used a non-winking smiley, dammit!

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I haven't read that anywhere, it'll be nice if you post a link to this.

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=10#display

Display

Generally speaking we are used to the graphics processors being responsible for the display output capabilities, however in the case of the XBOX 360 that is not the case. Xenos itself outputs the frame-buffer digitally to another display device of Microsoft's choosing.

 

[BTOA]

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=10#display

Generally speaking we are used to the graphics processors being responsible for the display output capabilities, however in the case of the XBOX 360 that is not the case. Xenos itself outputs the frame-buffer digitally to another display device of Microsoft's choosing.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1590/xbox2schemebg2uw.gif
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/AlgebraicRing/talk_3_slide_5.jpg
Looking at these pictures, I don't think Xenos can by pass the analog out and output a straight digital signal to people's screen? I could be wrong, but thats what I think.

 

[PG2G]

They could probably do HDMI if they decided to eliminate the scaling functionality, right? The scaler is the analog part, afaik.

 

[BTOA]

They could probably do HDMI if they decided to eliminate the scaling functionality, right? The scaler is the analog part, afaik.

The scaler should be sperate from the analog output chip and should be able to let the a native signal (720p ) pass through.

So I don't see how that affects the signal, if they're letting a native signal pass through?

 

[Cyander]

PC market is a bit different, as they can easily use multiple CDs and compress the hell out of them since it ends up installed on an HDD. Outside of gamecube (which uses those mini disc things) I haven't seen a non DVD game on a console since 2001.

Worms: Forts Under Siege, PS2, CD.

It sucked too, since the read speed was horrible compared to if they just put it on DVD.

 

[Magnum PI]

even if the added capacity is of no use to them, blueray could still offer an technical advantage to developpers, if the transfer rate of BR is better than DVD on the PS3.

 

[Cyander]

I haven't read that anywhere, it'll be nice if you post a link to this.

I personally can't link anything... although there is an internal SKU for HDMI. I have no idea if it will ever go into production though.

 

[Cyander]

even if the added capacity is of no use to them, blueray could still offer an technical advantage to developpers, if the transfer rate of BR is better than DVD on the PS3.

It would have to be 4x to do that, and IIRC, the drive they would be using is a 2x drive with a 12x DVD mechanism. 4x drives would be too expensive at the time of the PS3 launch to go with them.

 

[expletive]

Thats if ATI does put in a TMDS transmitters on their GPUs, so can Dave comment on that or not?

No, the quotes on Anands are the same conjecture that all these threads end up with. These guys at anand dont have any inside info or they would have stated it DOESNT have HDMI capability instead of their (rather useless) 'appears to be' commentary. The only Quote that any wieght should be put behind is from Todd Holdahl from MS:

We believe that we have the right set of outputs right now to meet the requirements of people who have HDTV sets today. We're continuing to look at what's going on in the future, and as things change, we've developed a very flexible system, so we can adapt to the different demands that are out there.

To me that says thats its more possible than not though until they say one way or the other we cant be certain.

 

[expletive]

They could probably do HDMI if they decided to eliminate the scaling functionality, right? The scaler is the analog part, afaik.

Scaling is math, its always done in the digital domain.

 

[BTOA]

No, the quotes on Anands are the same conjecture that all these threads end up with. These guys at anand dont have any inside info or they would have stated it DOESNT have HDMI capability instead of their (rather useless) 'appears to be' commentary. The only Quote that any wieght should be put behind is from Todd Holdahl from MS:



To me that says thats its more possible than not though until they say one way or the other we cant be certain.

Looking at the diagram and hearing what other sties have stated, its pointing to no.

I don't like listening to PR spin much and after looking at the internal diagram, I still don't see how they can get it to work with the current info we have.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

How is MS going to get the external drive information into the 360? AFAICS, the options are connect where the current hard drive does, over USB, or over ethernet. The former would make for an "interesting" looking combined unit. Do the latter two carry enough bandwidth to handle the data? I haven't look up the bitrate for the MPG2 HD stream expected.

 

[expletive]

Looking at the diagram and hearing what other sties have stated, its pointing to no.

I don't like listening to PR spin much and after looking at the internal diagram, I still don't see how they can get it to work with the current info we have.

What info is that exactly? Squares with lines connecting them on paper?

 

[expletive]

How is MS going to get the external drive information into the 360? AFAICS, the options are connect where the current hard drive does, over USB, or over ethernet. The former would make for an "interesting" looking combined unit. Do the latter two carry enough bandwidth to handle the data? I haven't look up the bitrate for the MPG2 HD stream expected.

USB2 is 480 mb/s, the max any of these optical HD formats are is about 35mb/s, USB2 is more than 10x adequate.

 

[AlphaWolf]

How is MS going to get the external drive information into the 360? AFAICS, the options are connect where the current hard drive does, over USB, or over ethernet. The former would make for an "interesting" looking combined unit. Do the latter two carry enough bandwidth to handle the data? I haven't look up the bitrate for the MPG2 HD stream expected.

Yes they have the bandwidth. HDDVD won't be using mpeg2, as I understand it, they will be using vc1 or h.264.

 

[BTOA]

What info is that exactly? Squares with lines connecting them on paper?

Anandtech's article on Inside Xbox 360.

 

[expletive]

Anandtech's article on Inside Xbox 360.

Again, if they had anything more than a guess, they would have said so. Anand is still a bunch of guys writing articles, not even whitepapers. They arent some race of aliens reverse-engineering consoles and ICs.