A case for kiosk based distribution for Microsoft’s Xbox and Live cloud services.

[Silent_Buddha]

Less minimum wage gamestop employees, more salaried developers, sounds like a good trade off.

As well as every single person involved in the whole manufacturing, packaging and distribution channel. Remove all those game disks from the manufacturing pipeline and DVD and BRD pressing volume will be greatly decreased. Likewise with the packaging and printing companies. Entire software distribution companies would go out of business or have to reduce their workforce as above if they distribute more than just software. Etc...

But as I mentioned, that isn't anything new, and happens anytime there's a paradigm shift that greatly reduces the costs to the consumer. But would come at a rather awkward time for the world economy.

Regards,
SB

 

[Squilliam]

I'm not sure the MS Points is a good jumping off point for something like this. The use of MS Points is primarily to keep retailers happy with digital distribution. Hence there is a fairly large markup in place for good retailer margins on the Point cards (as well as the Live membership cards).

It could be that they'll continue with that method of keeping retailers happy, but there's also a chance that if they feel they don't need retailers anymore or as much that they'll drop the point system which could allow them to lower the price of a game for consumers while at the same time increasing their own revenue from games (take half of the current retailer margin for the cards/MS Points and decrease the cost by that much).

I don't think they'll ever 'not' need retail. Unlike fantasies of doing everything online there will always be a large number of sales which will come from people physically going into retail stores. The most important thing there is the fact that retail stores distribute the physical consoles. Whilst they are supporting online distribution they cannot really take advantage of that fact unless they can bring the retail stores into the digital distribution model.

They could sell both PC games and Xbox games from the same place. Infact it would even be possible for people to buy the Xbox game and also play it on the PC as Valve does with the PS3 and Portal 2. When you move out of the idea of physical packaged goods to selling licences and royalties the possibilities really start to open up. If all they want is a 'Live' sale, the conflict of interest between the PC and Xbox enterprises starts to evaporate.

When you start to think of it, there are so many costs associated with retail distribution that affects so many things.

One thing that I would like to point out however, is that all of this will also come with a significant loss of jobs. But that's true for anything that reduces the cost to consumers. It is something to think about however with WW unemployment rates what they are, and the world still in a global recession.

Regards,
SB

Anything which has reduced costs and made the world more efficient has only ever improved the quality of life of people and created new economic opportunities elsewhere. I wouldn't think you'd regret the fact that one of the dish washers at your favourite resteraunt back in the day got fired because they got an industrial dishwasher?

 

[AlphaWolf]

As well as every single person involved in the whole manufacturing, packaging and distribution channel. Remove all those game disks from the manufacturing pipeline and DVD and BRD pressing volume will be greatly decreased. Likewise with the packaging and printing companies. Entire software distribution companies would go out of business or have to reduce their workforce as above if they distribute more than just software. Etc...

But as I mentioned, that isn't anything new, and happens anytime there's a paradigm shift that greatly reduces the costs to the consumer. But would come at a rather awkward time for the world economy.

Regards,
SB

As long as industry revenues stay the same or increase there should be a similar number of job $. They would just be applied differently.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The most important thing there is the fact that retail stores distribute the physical consoles. Whilst they are supporting online distribution they cannot really take advantage of that fact unless they can bring the retail stores into the digital distribution model.

Whooops I'd completely forgotten about that, despite my many arguments in the past that MS's point cards and large margin markup on Live Membership cards (hence MS probably only getting 30-40 USD from a 60 USD 1 year Live Gold card) mainly existed to keep retailers happy in the event they moved to a primarily digital distribution method of selling software when combined with razor thin console hardware margins.



Regards,
SB

 

[dobwal]

Well it looks like gamestop and Microsoft are getting together to push dlc content through the b&m stores.



http://phx.corporate-ir.net/Externa...9Mzg3OTgxfENoaWxkSUQ9MzkwNjYyfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

 

[AzBat]

Well it looks like gamestop and Microsoft are getting together to push dlc content through the b&m stores.



http://phx.corporate-ir.net/Externa...9Mzg3OTgxfENoaWxkSUQ9MzkwNjYyfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

Already been talking about that for months. Nothing new. Also reiterates the "Push to Box" technology(for Q1) I've mentioned before. I think it will just keep expanding. Looks like they're not really interested in kiosks either.

Tommy McClain

 

[Squilliam]

Well it looks like gamestop and Microsoft are getting together to push dlc content through the b&m stores.



http://phx.corporate-ir.net/Externa...9Mzg3OTgxfENoaWxkSUQ9MzkwNjYyfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

Thanks for the link, it's very interesting.

Already been talking about that for months. Nothing new. Also reiterates the "Push to Box" technology(for Q1) I've mentioned before. I think it will just keep expanding. Looks like they're not really interested in kiosks either.

Tommy McClain

I think that proves they could be interested Tommy. This is just a great way to test the waters without significant investment upfront. Thats just one step removed from an electronic point of sale where you input cash/card and the console back home immediately starts a background download. It is the next step where instead of being limited by the cards you take up to the counter you interface directly with the system and the the variety on offer is significantly greater. People could buy a game in the shop and by the time they get home it is playable. You can download 2GB at 1.2MB/s, in 30 minutes. All they would need is a peering arrangement with major ISPs in the U.K., U.S.A., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Botswana so that users aren't saddled with massive data charges where applicable.

 

[AzBat]

I think that proves they could be interested Tommy. This is just a great way to test the waters without significant investment upfront. Thats just one step removed from an electronic point of sale where you input cash/card and the console back home immediately starts a background download. It is the next step where instead of being limited by the cards you take up to the counter you interface directly with the system and the the variety on offer is significantly greater. People could buy a game in the shop and by the time they get home it is playable. You can download 2GB at 1.2MB/s, in 30 minutes. All they would need is a peering arrangement with major ISPs in the U.K., U.S.A., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Botswana so that users aren't saddled with massive data charges where applicable.

I agree with your idea that they'll go digital distribution in that way, but what you describe doesn't necessary require a physical kiosk. That's why I said I don't think they interested in kiosks. They see kiosks as one of the reasons why Blockbuster failed against Netflix. GameStop looks interested in keeping up with the technology. Which is smart because if they don't the game industry will just pass them by just like the movie industry passed by Blockbuster.

Tommy McClain

 

[Squilliam]

I agree with your idea that they'll go digital distribution in that way, but what you describe doesn't necessary require a physical kiosk. That's why I said I don't think they interested in kiosks. They see kiosks as one of the reasons why Blockbuster failed against Netflix. GameStop looks interested in keeping up with the technology. Which is smart because if they don't the game industry will just pass them by just like the movie industry passed by Blockbuster.

Tommy McClain

Gamestop has that technology, yeah, but what about other retailers who they want to bring in on the scheme? Gamestop as a specialist game retailer has an advantage there which a place like Walmart cannot match. It is unlikely that Walmart will be able to implement this given the supermarket style operation. So unless they roll out the kiosks this card system will remain exclusive to Gamestop and nowhere else.

Besides anything else, having something like a kiosk would enable them to price the downloaded games/movies lower than the price of physical media because retailers will be able to partake in the sale of those goods.

 

[zed]

4 out of 10 bluray discs i get from netflix are bad.

wow thats literally unbelievable
how do they stay in business if they have to refund/replace 40% of their products, oh wait they cant, thus the actual figure must be an order of magnitude lower at the very least

 

[Squilliam]

wow thats literally unbelievable
how do they stay in business if they have to refund/replace 40% of their products, oh wait they cant, thus the actual figure must be an order of magnitude lower at the very least

So like 0.4%??? Is that an order of magnitude?

 

[DuckThor Evil]

4%.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I don't think zed has a clue how badly the netflix stuff gets mangled, It seems like its far from an uncommon occurrence. Just do an internet search on netflix and bad disks. I'd guess 40% is high like 4% is low. There's threads where a number of users have reported canceling their netflix blu-ray subs because of ongoing problems with cracking.

(I should add I don't really think blu-ray or dvd failure is a problem for people that use and care about their own stuff, but I would never think about buying a used disc because I know most people don't actually take care of stuff)

 

[Squilliam]

I don't think zed has a clue how badly the netflix stuff gets mangled,

Both Zed and myself are from New Zealand where netflix isn't available. He is likely commenting without first hand experience. Even if hes used a similar service here, the handling aspects of the postal service in the U.S.A. will still be unknown to him.

In short, Zed is evil and infact you should only trust the New Zealander known as Squilliam hence forth.

 

[corduroygt]

I don't think zed has a clue how badly the netflix stuff gets mangled, It seems like its far from an uncommon occurrence. Just do an internet search on netflix and bad disks. I'd guess 40% is high like 4% is low. There's threads where a number of users have reported canceling their netflix blu-ray subs because of ongoing problems with cracking.

Only people whose discs get scratched or cracked care enough to post it on the internet, just like people and their cars. If you're going to trust forum posts, then you'd think no car is reliable since the internet is full of people complaining about every make and model. Netflix has been successfully running a mail order disc rental business for years, it's ridiculous to think the bad disk rate is anything close to those numbers.

 

[Platon]

I've had more flash memory go bad on me than Blu-ray discs, which have never gone bad on me, even ones I've rented. Last I checked, buying a game from a kiosk was slower than buying the disc since you had to wait for the transfer.

DD has advantages, sure, but Kiosk model doesn't.

The durability of DD comes from the fact that you don't need any media. Your game or whatever it is is attached to an account and can just be downloaded again if you flash, hard drive or whatever else screws up. Try changing a scratched DVD at your gamestore...

 

[Dregun]

Best of both worlds..!?!?

The kiosks have a BD Burner and burns a "Copy" of the game for you. When you purchase the game you are logged into your PSN/Live account and it "activates" your console to play that copied game as during the burning processes the kiosks adds a serial number to the game as it burns it.

Now thier is no expensive portable mediums that need to be brought to the kiosk to store a potentially very large game on and since the kiosk is hooked up to the network it has the ability to create a wide selection of games based on its internal storage.

For those people without internet connected consoles a simple usb,flash or some kind of proprietary flash reader/writer could have the customer insert their drive into the system so it could create a key for the person to play that newly created game. (think gifting maybe a $1 charge extra to have the machine dispense the card) or they could bypass it completely and just have an activation code..who knows. If security measures would allow it maybe the person buying the game would be allowed to "search" for the person they are buying the game for. Timmy Smith, then it asks what state and city Timmy Smith lives in, then asks for the approximate age of Timmy Smith to help narrow down any confusion and it activates Timmy Smiths console.

BD discs will be cheaper then any form of flash medium for a very very long time. I wouldn't want to wait to download a 30-40gb game on my 10mb connection as compared to visiting a kiosk and getting a game burned for me in less then 10 minutes. They can even do the same thing they do for photo printing. Give you a reciept with a barcode on it and the machine scans the barcode and fetches the game it completed for you so people don't have to worry about standing in line behind someone else who is getting a game made. The machine could send a text message saying your game is ready to be picked up or Live or PSN could have an app on your phone that sends those messages to you.

Then once and for all these companies would have a viable solution to the second hand market. You visit the box and insert one of your old games, it reads it; verifies its authenticity and then says it will give you a credit towards your next purchase. You accept; it uses a process to damage the BD and now the consumer was able to "trade" his game to get a discount on a new game. It then offers that exact game as a "discount title" to anyone ANYWHERE and by doing so it no longer has any trade in value but the person who wants to buy it pays the same amount that the previous person got for a discount. So John in Texas trades in Madden 2014 and immediatly after, Steve in NY has it show up on his kiosk or a message telling him a copy of Madden he was interested in is available at that exact moment for purchase.

Win win!!

Exact numbers of copies of games sold, the turn around factor of games being traded in and an extra level of security to help prevent pirating. The best part is they could reduce the cost of games by $10 and still make more profit per game then they do today.

 

[JB9861]

Never had an issue with Netflix shipments arriving damaged, but there is a major studio (can't remember who atm) that sells rental discs that can only be best described as barebones in terms of features. And in addition to that previews that can't be skipped quickly.

 

[acaeus]

Best of both worlds..!?!?
The kiosks have a BD Burner and burns a "Copy" of the game for you. When you purchase the game you are logged into your PSN/Live account and it "activates" your console to play that copied game as during the burning processes the kiosks adds a serial number to the game as it burns it.

Interesting proposition, but the issue remains that the console would still need to be connected to the internet. I bet the vast majority of people around here have wireless net in their home, but that's not true to all... Don't forget that merely having internet access wouldn't be enough as people would have their computers hooked up to a modem, not their consoles or other devices.

I'm all for more convenient/faster ways of distribution, but realistically I still find it hard to believe companies would forgo a potentially large group of ppl without wireless in their homes. Anything that could possibly shrink their potential userbase is a no-go.

 

[acaeus]

Only people whose discs get scratched or cracked care enough to post it on the internet, just like people and their cars. If you're going to trust forum posts, then you'd think no car is reliable since the internet is full of people complaining about every make and model. Netflix has been successfully running a mail order disc rental business for years, it's ridiculous to think the bad disk rate is anything close to those numbers.

Agreed. So much so that there are investors who question whether netflix can remain the top dogs in the DD world. They argue that netflix's advantages in the mail delivery system would not be there in the DD world and other companies could be better positioned to take their candy.