Please elaborate. I'd like to know in what ways, from a user point of view, the PS4 and PS4 Pro tech are similar in a way that the Xbox One and Scorpio are not.
Mixed Information on Consoles or How I learned to loathe PR *spin off*
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Please elaborate. I'd like to know in what ways, from a user point of view, the PS4 and PS4 Pro tech are similar in a way that the Xbox One and Scorpio are not.
Regardless as @mpg1 said, the message was a little mixed and I know at least one person who was under the impression the slim was the scorpio. You just need to realise the general public aren;t as switched on as others in the know who spend time discussing and disecting!
I don't understand your question. We know Pro is essentially PS4 with double GPU - it has everything else (roughly) the same but overclocked. Scorpio is being 'advertised' as 'state of the art' we know it's got more RAM a massively larger GPU and potentially a new CPU.
An interesting position to fall back on. I'm not sure this is a strong argument for your case, there will always be uninformed persons, people who thought the Galaxy was a iPhone 3G, the people that think iPhone 7 is an iPhone 6.
Looking directly at their competition using this argument is a tad weak since Sony suffers worse from it. They launched and announced two consoles side by side and one month apart from each other, On an Internet stream that was unable to convey the differences between high resolution and HDR. They didn't even show the two consoles running side by side to highlight the differences. Made a hoopla about 4K and HDR and didn't ship with a UHD player.
Ignoring this, meeting your point head on, I would say that consumers will make better an informed decisions as time goes on. We know today that PS4 benefitted greatly from how both companies launched. So great that there are people today who think XBO cannot sell their used games. There are people who think XBO is tied to digital online DRM and Kinect spies on them. PS4 had better resolution and so forth.
These are the rumblings of people being informed by word of mouth, the Internet, forums and so forth. All of this within 8 months of launch.
8 months. Scorpio is sitting at 15-18 months since their PR announcement. That's a ton of time for people to be informed.
Every review of the XBO S is always caveated by, not sure if I would buy this as Scorpio is coming next year, if 4K native gaming matters to you, you should wait.
Honestly. Read any review and you will see it.
As for half the data missing:
Tons of options available.
Skip it all:
Buy a gaming PC get Scoprio quality today and play your future MS exclusives.
If you own an OG XBO then:
Upgrade to XBO S, then to Scorpio
Skip upgrading go straight to Scorpio
Keep your OG XBO and buy a Gaming PC
If you don't own XBO
Buy XBO S
Wait a year buy a Scorpio.
Your games library moves forward.
The consumer gets to decide what they want to spend, when they want to spend it and on what platform.
You've got effectively,
Budget 1080p, Budget 1080p with 4K, 4K expensive, and your choice of performance on PC.
I'm pretty sure this has been MS messaging. And all of it revolves around when you want to buy a 4K TV and if you even care to... Ever
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I conversely found the Sony message clear - they showed both machines, explained the differences (regardless of the fact we couldn;t fully benefit at home) and then clearly showed price and a shot of both machines with launch dates...not sure how much clearer you want it?
I (personally) found the MS message clear - they were releasing slim soon and Scorpio in ~18 month, maybe they should have launched slim first and then revealed Scorpio? I don't know, I just know some people are not fully aware, I totally get that the message will become clearer but that doesn't help the people buying the console today under false ideas. You need to consider most people who buy things are not fully educated on the matter - even my son (18yo PC gamer) was like 'wow, scoprio looks awsome - gonna save up for that' and I said 'you do realise it's not out for 1 1/2 years right?' and needless to say he was not. Which I found odd - maybe people just saw 'Coming Fall' or something.
You're both basing this on anecdotal evidence at best, if not complete speculation.
I'm questioning why you believe a larger spec difference between the base and premium SKUs makes the two approaches fundamentally different from a user point of view. PS4 Pro is a better PS4. Scorpio is a better Xbox One.
True! But it doesn't harm him. No money was exchanged, there's no amount of hype that could let him put money down while he waits for Scorpio. Now that he is informed, he can makes choices on it. Learn more about Scorpio and decide if it's worth it.
That can't be considered a terrible thing. You k own what I mean? Sometimes marketing and hype is so strong, that once the hype is over and people break out of the spell of instant gratification, what remains are good purchasing decisions. I can't fault MS for that. They nuked XBO S sales for us to be able to decide what we really want.
I can't honestly say the same with Sony. Lots of people riding that hype wave. I was really tempted to buy 4K TV after their presentation. And after a week of letting the hype settle, I've made my final arrangements to invest everything into PC. But was so close to buying XBO S. Etc
I believe it's been mental gymnastics for everyone, you, me, everyone the last little while. But once I broke from the hype the path I need to take became clear.
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Oh yeah, I'm just saying it's happening - I suppose it'll happen on any product tho as pointed out
I've not said there is (have I?). The main difference I'm talking about is that Sony said 'here's the slim and the pro, slim does this, pro does that, slim is $300, pro is $400, slim out 'now' pro out November. MS said 'slim out 'now' @ $300, by the way we're making this monster console due out in 1 1/2 years but don't worry all your games and accessories will work' no mention of price so how can someone make a full informed choice.
So because they never gave a price on a console that comes out in a 1.5 years time, it's confusing and people cant make an informed decision what they should do?
I could understand some what if it was a new gen, but the fact that all games are compatible, then it seems pretty simple.
You can either wait to hear more about it, you don't want to wait and buy something now, and if you decide on slim you know you don't need to worry about games.
It's a business not a charity. That's not the reason they unveiled scorpio 18 months in advance without showing any game, nor a console, nor a price, after they mocked Sony for unveiling the PS4 without having the final enclosure. It's because Sony is launching a year earlier, at a lower price, and will end up with a gigantic lead in performance for the next 12 months, and increase their market share even more. Announcing Scorpio that early is a compromise.
Sony did exactly the same thing with the PS3, they started talking about it and how awesome it's going to be in 2004 to prevent losing too many sales over the 360 launch year and price advantage.
Only two years ago, they were claiming 40% difference in GPU power is not really noticeable. And that the difference between 900p and 1080p cannot be seen on a 60 inch TV. And that frame rate is more important than resoluton etc... PR is business.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-vs-ps4-resolution-microsoft-challenges-yo/1100-6421047/
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I don't disagree, but the result is the same and it worked out in consumers favour.
They could have gone the other route, made an announcement next year around now, and say hey Scorpio is here. Buy it next month, and all the XBO Slim recent purchasers would have been shafted. (Standard practice)
The topic is whether you would get shafted by MS when Scorpio comes due to the power difference, with all the knowledge that is available today, it's likely a very limited scenario.
Also this is mid-generation. It's never been done before, so a slight change from the status quo of expecting a new console every 6 years, the shafting effect could be higher and twice when the actual generation following swings around mid-gen.
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And they learned that they was wrong and a big thing has been made of that difference during that time.
So now they've decided it's a bigger deal than they originally thought.
Is that just pr, or deciding they was wrong regardless if they could see a difference or not?
X1 and X1S owners don't have anything to fear from Scorpio - for a few years at least it's going to get all the same (none VR) games. PS4 owners don't have anything to fear from PS4P either - same games. It's how PS4P and Scorpio fare when their successor systems are announced and released where things may (or may not) differ.
4K HDR and UHD BR were a good move for MS as despite the Scorpio announcement it gives X1S something to make it very tempting in the here and now. And all the games and accessories will seamlessly transfer to newer generations of the X1 "family". It's a pretty low risk proposition.
4K HDR and UHD BR were a good move for MS as despite the Scorpio announcement it gives X1S something to make it very tempting in the here and now. And all the games and accessories will seamlessly transfer to newer generations of the X1 "family". It's a pretty low risk proposition.
I'm sorry but not revealing a price will have one of 2 negative impacts; 1) too high - I waited and should have gone with the slim/pro 2) too low - i already bought the slim and now you're selling so much more power for just a bit more I should have waited. Hardly anyone buying today will be thanking MS when they launch Scorpio IMHO.
When it suits them. Will be interesting to hear what they have to say when PS5 is revealed, all of a sudden true 4k60 on all games won't matter because DX13/cloud mk2/insert MS PR here
Or... most of them will end up with goldilocks #3 "I based my decision on widespread speculation, and I'm glad the price ended up exactly at $499 with a 2TB drive" ;-)
But yeah, if the price falls anywhere else, some will be unhappy. People are happy/unhappy based on how things match rumors and speculation. Like we knew for a long time already PS4P was 4.2TF and there are people who are unhappy because they trusted the made up crap from the internet about some imaginary upgrade to 5.5TF. Or the 10TF scorpio which is the first post in the scorpio thread.
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trainplane
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I'm pretty sure if MS could keep Scorpio under wraps, they would have done so. They announced it because it was going to leak like the Titanic anyway.
Also, I think people are overestimating the impact of Scorpio on current sales. Neo was announced in E3 in the same way, very vague, but I don't think it impacted PS4 sales a ton. A ton of stuff that gets upgraded on an annual basis doesn't impact current sales as much as we like to think. Smart phones, cars, TVs.
And why do we care so much about corporate strategy? I care about what the consoles mean to me as a user. Is MS eating the cost of including a UHD drive in a $299 device? Great, more bang for buck for consumer. Was Sony worried about the bottom line in not including a UHD for $399? I'm not a shareholder so that that doesn't concern me. MS, Nintento, and Sony need to fight for our dollars. Let them fight.
Also, I think people are overestimating the impact of Scorpio on current sales. Neo was announced in E3 in the same way, very vague, but I don't think it impacted PS4 sales a ton. A ton of stuff that gets upgraded on an annual basis doesn't impact current sales as much as we like to think. Smart phones, cars, TVs.
And why do we care so much about corporate strategy? I care about what the consoles mean to me as a user. Is MS eating the cost of including a UHD drive in a $299 device? Great, more bang for buck for consumer. Was Sony worried about the bottom line in not including a UHD for $399? I'm not a shareholder so that that doesn't concern me. MS, Nintento, and Sony need to fight for our dollars. Let them fight.
your saying you can make a better more informed decision by having less information, If they didn't announce Scorpio at all. As this wasn't a launch, it was a general announcement, and vision of where they see the Xbox going(ecosystem etc)
Hmmm ok, guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
if that's the way you choose to see it then just like every company, 1080p120, 1080p60, emotion engine.
it's just pr that they could release it for cheaper because they said you can go out and get another job in the past.
I see it as learning from what happened. Regardless of the pr involved, they learned and decided on a different approach. Only way for it not to be just pr in your eyes is if they are stubborn and not change. Then you would just say, see pr and they won't listen and change.
edit : And to answer your question what will they say when ps5 is revieled.
x2 is a year out(maybe less), 50% more power, all your games will work, and play better, 4k30 will run as 4k60, 1080p60 1440p60, whatever
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What about 2 weeks ago before the slim and pro were announced ?
People bought $350 ps4 fats and now there are $300 slims and $400 pros coming .
Its the same with any tech. MS announced that the new console is coming out in a year. people can wait if they want or not wait. Its up to the consumer since they actually know a year not a month before release. its a better situation for the consumer
D
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I agree in principle but in practise there isn't enough information on Scorpio for consumers to make an informed decision, key information not known is price. What Microsoft have thrown into the mix is uncertainty and it was clearly intended to impact Sony Pro sales but I think there is greater chance of it impacting a year of Xbox One sales. We aren't looking at a clean break generation we're looking at new consoles building on the traction of existing consoles and the traction is on Sony's side and they're launching a year early. Xbox One has less traction to begin with and I can't see how the early announcement of Scorpio helping. The next year of sales will be telling.
Take your receipt back to the store and they'll credit you the difference. You usually have 30 days of price protection.
No, I'm saying more information - see this;
Exactly. This is all I'm saying, some here have said 'people can make an informed choice' - that's simply not true.
Well let's face it, it happens with all hardware - eventually it's replaced or prices come down. There will always be a few people who buy (or sell or upgrade etc) at the 'wrong' time - there is never a perfect time...but as @DSoup said - Scorpio announcment was nothing more than a side-swipe at the impending Pro reveal.