Minecraft, Rocket League, Fortnite, etc CrossPlay on every Platform but Sony because...

[Deleted member 11852]

Of course it's within Sony's power. That's how it happened due to their large player base and Epic willing to go forward by virtue of money. You think Epic decided to enable this debacle simply because Sony asked nicely?

This is my point. This is not something that was technically within Sony's control because Fortnite accounts are managed by Epic, who were equally complicit.

What Epic should have done was refuse and wait for Sony to cave which they would have because Fortnite is the alternative to PUBG.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

It is absolutely within Sony's power. If it wasn't within Sony's power, they flat out would have come out and say so in order to stop the constant beatings their brand is taking on the social media platforms. Just take a look at every single tweet Sony has done since then to see unrelenting replies with #BlameSony or Sony:FuckThePlayers messages. It's not a good image when every single message you're trying to communicate is getting pissed on with the Fortnite hijacking message.

It's within Sony's power to surrender to the public pressure brought about by this Fortnite debacle, or to stand strong. It's within Epic's power to correct this issue with their accounts used across multiple platforms.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's within Sony's power to surrender to the public pressure brought about by this Fortnite debacle, or to stand strong. It's within Epic's power to correct this issue with their accounts used across multiple platforms.

No-one here actually knows what agreements are in place to be able to publish Fortnite as a F2P title on PSN. Ergo we know Sony's culpability in this mess, but not Epic's, who could have agreements and NDAs in place so unable to even express their position.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

No-one here actually knows what agreements are in place to be able to publish Fortnite as a F2P title on PSN. Ergo we know Sony's culpability in this mess, but not Epic's, who could have agreements and NDAs in place so unable to even express their position.

Epic seem content to keep a low profile, why stick your head above the parapet when people are throwing shit around? Epic know they screwed up and very quietly have been unfucking things which are on them alone. Fortnite's support website has a page warning of the dangers of unlinking a console platform, one of the consequences now reads:

"If you disconnect your PSN ID, Nintendo account, or Xbox gamertag from the Epic account that it is currently connected to, any purchases that you have made, as well as stats and other save data, will be no longer accessible on that platform."​

Prior to that update on 14 June that page was quoted in many forums, including posts on resetera, as reading:

"If you disconnect your PSN ID, Nintendo account, or Xbox gamertag from the Epic account that it is currently connected to, any purchases that you have made, as well as stats and other save data, will be no longer accessible."
​

So until two weeks ago, disconnecting any linked account (incl. Xbox and Switch) from Fortnite would have lost you all your purchases even if you had never linked it to a PSN ID.

 

[Malo]

This is my point. This is not something that was technically within Sony's control because Fortnite accounts are managed by Epic, who were equally complicit.

What Epic should have done was refuse and wait for Sony to cave which they would have because Fortnite is the alternative to PUBG.

Yeah we all agree with that, obviously Epic is culpable here since it's their accounts and they are definitely equally complicit and should receive their fair share of social and journalistic targeting because of it. But your statement was that Sony is unable to dictate what happens and I disagree. This is most definitely something Sony did dictate to Epic. They used their player base power to do so.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Yeah we all agree with that, obviously Epic is culpable here since it's their accounts and they are definitely equally complicit and should receive their fair share of social and journalistic targeting because of it. But your statement was that Sony is unable to dictate what happens and I disagree. This is most definitely something Sony did dictate to Epic. They used their player base power to do so.

Epic aren't some tinpot indie developer, they are a developer, publisher and toolchain vendor. The idea that Sony strong-armed them against their will is laughable.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

No-one here actually knows what agreements are in place to be able to publish Fortnite as a F2P title on PSN. Ergo we know Sony's culpability in this mess, but not Epic's, who could have agreements and NDAs in place so unable to even express their position.

Yeah we all agree with that, obviously Epic is culpable here since it's their accounts and they are definitely equally complicit and should receive their fair share of social and journalistic targeting because of it. But your statement was that Sony is unable to dictate what happens and I disagree. This is most definitely something Sony did dictate to Epic. They used their player base power to do so.

The strongest case against Sony dictating this exact mess is the plethora of multiplatform games that haven't suffered from this same issue.

But Shifty's right that we don't know who's dictated what to who. Maybe Sony decided they're big enough to try to lock people in, even from other networks; maybe Epic implemented cross platform play on every other platform, resulting in them just sort of forgetting about Sony's walled garden, and how that would impact Fortnite's microtransaction model.

It's certainly a royal cock-up, but it's not necessarily because Sony don't want to play with other networks. The Fortnite issue can be fixed without just opening up PSN to its smaller rivals (who stand to lose less from the move,) and that's what Sony and Epic are probably debating right now.

People can clamour for an opening of Sony's walled garden, but Sony clearly want to be the Apple of gaming, and weathering storms in teacups has served Apple well for decades.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Another remark to Sony's defence contradicting my own earlier observation about other platforms becoming more appealing because players are no longer locked into social choices - Sony already support cross-platform play between PC and PS4, so that issue wasn't a problem for them. This undermines a reason to lock out other consoles.

So until two weeks ago, disconnecting any linked account (incl. Xbox and Switch) from Fortnite would have lost you all your purchases even if you had never linked it to a PSN ID.

It makes sense that unlinking an account loses access to that account's content. We're not talking about player's unlinking an account here, though; at least not themselves. We're talking about them linking a Sony account to an existing account and losing access.

Do XBox and Switch have the same conflicts? If you buy something on one of those platforms and play on the other, do you lose access to the content on the former? Or does the act of linking both console accounts to the Epic account not result in a conflict the same way Sony's platform does?

 

[BRiT]

It could also be that Sony has different terms for F2P games than purchased games when it comes to DLC and in-game items, so thats why only Fortnite is having cross-account issues.

 

[BRiT]

We're talking about them linking a Sony account to an existing account and losing access.

Do XBox and Switch have the same conflicts? If you buy something on one of those platforms and play on the other, do you lose access to the content on the former? Or does the act of linking both console accounts to the Epic account not result in a conflict the same way Sony's platform does?

Its only Sony.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It makes sense that unlinking an account loses access to that account's content. We're not talking about player's unlinking an account here, though; at least not themselves.

It doesn't really make sense at all because this data is stored in your Fortnite account. The only non-transferable things in Fortnite are platform exclusive content and the in game currency, V-Bucks, that have been purchased for real money. Purchased V-Bucks are local to the platform purchased on (PC, mobile, Xbox, Switch or PS4).

We're talking about them linking a Sony account to an existing account and losing access.

I think there are a couple of issues being talked about. The first is linking your Fortnite account to a PSN ID and losing access to it on other platforms. This is entirely down to Epic and Sony. Sony wanted it, Epic actually did it. Epic control Fortnite accounts.

The second issue was Sony irretrievably "stealing" your content. I assume this was a consequence of the first issue, i.e. people linking their PSN account then finding themselves locked out on other platforms, then unlinking their PSN ID and losing everything. This wasn't Sony's taking your stuff, this was Epic's unlinking policy. The same would be true if you had an Xbox linked to your Fortnite account and want to Unlink it - you'd lose everything :|

Since Epic's policy change, if you link your Fortnite account to PS4, you are locked out for as long as it's linked. But you can unlink it apparently with no greater consequences than any other platform, which is what you would expect.

 

[AlNom]

It could also be that Sony has different terms for F2P games than purchased games when it comes to DLC and in-game items, so thats why only Fortnite is having cross-account issues.

Yeah, I was wondering about this as it’s a cross-buy situation where the royalty terms of the digital store need to be addressed.

Essentially they are giving a license for “free” to use the content potentially bought on another platform.

 

[BRiT]

IGN finally has an article on things, titled "Sony's Stubborn Stance on Cross-Play Is Embarrassing"

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/07/02/sonys-stubborn-stance-on-cross-play-is-embarrassing

We now have lovely videos of Microsoft and Nintendo working together, PC gamers happily playing with people on Switch and mobile, and even major developers like Epic and Bethesda publicly calling out Sony for their unwillingness to adjust.

Players want PS4 cross-play. Developers want PS4 cross-play. Essentially everyone in the world except Sony wants PS4 cross-play, and it’s getting embarrassing to watch as that world changes around them.

 

[iroboto]

Epic aren't some tinpot indie developer, they are a developer, publisher and toolchain vendor. The idea that Sony strong-armed them against their will is laughable.

Deal with the Devil
to recall,
Fortnite was doing not so well across all the platforms. Very few were playing/paying for standard Fortnite, they were absolutely desperate for that game to succeed, and I don't think Epic thought much of it.

Deals were made and no one gave a shit.

Then they released Fortnite BR and it exploded.

I'm not going to say whose to blame, but I don't think Epic or Sony expected this level of success. It's rare for a game to have this much success and it's not reasonable to make it seem like Epic knew they had this on their hands. They didn't, they lifted PUBG and it exploded for them. If it wasn't for PUBG Fornite would be doing as well as Lawbreakers.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/07/02/sonys-stubborn-stance-on-cross-play-is-embarrassing

IGN's PC Editor seemingly fails to acknowledge the economics here, stating confidently: "The truth of the matter is that this decision benefits no one, especially not Sony."

If that was the case, this wouldn't be a thing. IGN discussed the same thing, in considerably more detail, on their GameScoop podcast recently and those guys seemed very clear that this was about money because it is indeed about money. People close to Sony and people who used to work for Sony, have said that this is about money. This is certainly benefiting Sony financially and only one of two things will cause a change for Sony:

1. The point of announcing PS5 gets close and they don't want this issue, if it's still an issue, to cloud that.
2. Sony actually start seeing cross-platform multi-player games sell less on PlayStation compared to other platforms and are confident this is the cause.

Until one of those two things happen, Sony have nothing to lose because PlayStation 4 is a licence to print money to a greater degree than PlayStation 2.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

2. Sony actually start seeing cross-platform multi-player games sell less on PlayStation compared to other platforms and are confident this is the cause.

Until one of those two things happen, Sony have nothing to lose because PlayStation 4 is a licence to print money to a greater degree than PlayStation 2.

The problem isn't so much PS4 software sales now, but future platform sales. If this continues to be a thing and to grow, people are going to be discouraged from buying Sony in future. Those who only game on one platform won't care, but then Sony has nothing to lose from those people anyway. Those who game on multiple platforms or want to share game experiences with friends will care, and will be incentivised to choose differently. No-one can predict what the economic fall-out next-gen will be, making it hard to cost the gains versus the losses.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The problem isn't so much PS4 software sales now, but future platform sales. If this continues to be a thing and to grow, people are going to be discouraged from buying Sony in future.

The core market are already bought into PS4 at this point, for people buying PS4 five years after launch this likely barely registers on their radar. As I said in point one above, when Sony get near to the point when they're thinking about when to announce PS5, this policy will be a consideration. If Sony are concerned then the smart thing to do would be to announce a change in policy 6-12 weeks ahead of announcing PS5 thus defusing this criticism. This let's everybody feel happy that Sony are doing the right thing and enjoy it, while maintaining a respectable time ahead of the PS5 reveal so it's less obviously a blatant marketing tactic.

Of course, if PS5 plays PS4 games and Sony are confident about the PS5 package, they may decide it's worth not changing the policy on the basis that people generally don't like to give up things like content libraries if that's an actual product buying choice. PS5 with multiplayer lock-in or consider switching to another platform? Hmmm.. tough one.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

It just reminds me of so much sociopolitical commentary in the current zeitgeist: people are willing to peddle any old nonsense with whatever degree of hyperbole, disregarding the truth of the matter, because they consider their agenda paramount.

And then, when increasing amounts of people start to distrust the media because of these tactics, do they decide that truth might be worth pursuing? Do they bollocks. They double down, and call their critics stupid, nazis, or communists.

Bring on our robot overlords.

 

[mrcorbo]

https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/1/17522794/fallout-76-ps4-xbox-one-cross-platform-play

Edit: Polygon confirms that this developer did indeed weigh in on this as linked by Scott_Arm here.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Another developer weighs in.

Posted above - the actual comments were made in June.

It's gone quiet again so once again there is zero pressure on Sony to change. Their statement basically acknowledged some disgruntled but promised nothing. And that's what will change: nothing.