Minecraft, Rocket League, Fortnite, etc CrossPlay on every Platform but Sony because...

[Silent_Buddha]

To be clear, you buy goods and access on one device, then access those same goods on PlayStation, and lose access to your paid-for goods on the other device? Without any warning even. There's no way this is going to stand, and it'll possibly lead to anti-competitive legislation ensuring cross-ownership of content. The same will happen on mobile too, that content bought for a service on one platform has to be enabled on the same service on the other platform. One hopes, anyway.

Yeah, I hadn't even thought about the fact that Sony's actions actually lock you out of the content on another platform if you bought things on that other platform. I can't see how that can be legal.

It's one thing to not honor purchases made on another platform. It's another to lock a user out of the content they bought on another platform on that platform.

Something like that would require the user to sign away their rights to the content on the other platform, but even then, wouldn't that have to be done with the other platform holder? Even with user consent Sony shouldn't be able to void a users rights to the content they bought on another platform on that platform.

Regards,
SB

 

[Nesh]

To be clear, you buy goods and access on one device, then access those same goods on PlayStation, and lose access to your paid-for goods on the other device? Without any warning even. There's no way this is going to stand, and it'll possibly lead to anti-competitive legislation ensuring cross-ownership of content. The same will happen on mobile too, that content bought for a service on one platform has to be enabled on the same service on the other platform. One hopes, anyway.

I cannot comprehend how an institution proceeded with the implementation of such a mechanism without thinking about the consequences in public image and consumer disatisfaction.
This is something that was most likely decided simultaneously by both Epic and Sony without thinking about what would follow. And it is perplexing how both agreed to move on

 

[Malo]

What's also incredible is that Epic signed whatever contract was required to both implement this and likely an NDA to not disclose this in any way. That means Sony demanded this as a requirement to get Fortnite on the PS4 and Epic caved because money.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I agree. Epic should not be above criticism in this situation. They're partners in this mess.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's easy to let this get overblown, but it just seems like a poorly thought out policy that needs correcting.

If that were true, Sony would have held up their arms, said, "our bad," and reassured gamers they'd fix this snaffu. That's not happening. Sony have buried their heads in the sand because changing their policy means changing the future financial stability of their DLC income. Cross-platform games with universal accounts is a Thing and Sony just have to be open to that.

I'm looking into how to support cross-device purchases in ionAXXIA so when you buy an unlock, it's unlock on any device that account is playing on. If Sony were to mandate that using the game on PS requires the account be locked out of other devices, I'd refuse to release on it. Or put a very public warning that that'll happen, pointing the finger squarely at Sony!

The walled garden isn't walled any more. It's more a picket fence. Sony need to get on board and all the reaction I'm seeing so far is merited; far from overblown.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

There's no way this is going to stand, and it'll possibly lead to anti-competitive legislation ensuring cross-ownership of content.

It won't because, ignoring Sony for a minute, other interested parties who care about consumer's [lack of] rights with regard to digital products are heavy political lobbyers. But your faith in democracy and common sense made me smile.

It's great that this is getting good mainstream media coverage but none of these outlets will be interested in this tomorrow and persistent outrage is the only way that anything changes. Look at the damage plastic is doing to the ocean's ecology and wider environment. It took David Attenborough to make a massive deal about it in bloody 4K video to even kickstart that conversation and pictures of dead dolphins and little fishies for weeks/months to keep politician's minds focussed on this enough to suggest measures to merely dis-incentivise not using plastic as much as we do.

Gamer's buying digital shit that they can't use on some other thing than they bought it on? Forget it.

Maybe in a generation when politician have grown up understanding (and caring about) this stuff.

Maybe..

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It won't because, ignoring Sony for a minute, other interested parties who care about consumer's [lack of] rights with regard to digital products are heavy political lobbyers. But your faith in democracy and common sense made me smile.

It's great that this is getting good mainstream media coverage but none of these outlets will be interested in this tomorrow and persistent outrage is the only way that anything changes. Look at the damage plastic is doing to the ocean's ecology and wider environment. It took David Attenborough to make a massive deal about it in bloody 4K video to even kickstart that conversation and pictures of dead dolphins and little fishies for weeks/months to keep politician's minds focussed on this enough to suggest measures to merely dis-incentivise not using plastic as much as we do.

Gamer's buying digital shit that they can't use on some other thing than they bought it on? Forget it.

Maybe in a generation when politician have grown up understanding (and caring about) this stuff.

Maybe..

This is a bit different. The stuff in the ocean is a fairly big NIOBY (not in our back yard) type of thing. This actually affects people. It involves the most popular console with the most popular console to own when you already own the most popular console.

IE - it affects a lot of people that game on PS4 and have a Switch. Fortnite's popularity exploded with their mobile release showing that the game was so popular people would play it on mobile phones just to be able to play it on the go. So it being released on Switch has gotten a bunch of people to think that all their stuff would carry over to the Switch just likes it does from the PS4 to mobile devices.

Only, they're finding out that their account becomes locked and their purchases can become invalidated on another device. They go to see why this is happening and if it's a bug, only to find out that it's because this is what Sony wants.

If it was just PS4/XBO then no public outcry. People that own both are rarely going to want to play Fortnite on both. So it becomes more of a philosophical discussion as less people are actually affected (those that want to play with friends but they are on separate consoles).

But with Switch in the mix. People with XBO and Switch have no problems. People with PS4 and Switch have problems. Now it's real.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

This is a bit different. The stuff in the ocean is a fairly big NIOBY (not in our back yard) type of thing. This actually affects people. It involves the most popular console with the most popular console to own when you already own the most popular console.

This impacts a small percentage of a small percentage of people who game. Trying to convince a politician to do something about this is a zero sum game. Even in their largest market PS4 owners are < 1% of a voting population.

If this little mattered, why is weed still prohibited in most places?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If this little mattered, why is weed still prohibited in most places?

Because a lot of people still don't want it. Also, now that it's legal in many places in the US, we're finally started to get good data on it's effects. One of the side effects that wasn't expected by proponents of legalizing weed is that while testing positive for Marijuana increased, testing positive for harder drugs has also increased to a similar but lesser extent a few months after. Hard drug use in states where weed has been legalized is now on the rise again after it'd been on the decline in many of those states for years. It's still too early to say for sure, but at least currently it appears there may be some validity to marijuana being a gateway drug to harder drugs.

A recent psychological research paper is now starting to see and document correlation between long term marijuana use and the development of Psychosis (https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20110301/marijuana-use-linked-to-risk-of-psychotic-symptoms ), especially schizophrenia.

The popular view prior to this was that people with psychosis were drawn to marijuana and not that marijuana was a cause of psychosis.

One of my friends is a psychiatrist that works for the city here to help rehab. people that have a drug addiction and brings a lot of this stuff to my attention.

Personally, I was for legalization before it impacted me personally. I live in a non-smoking community. It was great before marijuana was legalized, now that it is, I can't escape the stink. For some reason people are fine with violating the rules here if it's marijuana but not if it's tabacco. Ugh. I really hate those people.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Because a lot of people still don't want it.

Exactly. And this is how it works in politics but voices aren't equivalent. As a citizen and voter, my view is insignificant unless it's shared by another dozen million people. But the people who own and sell digital content, who may be significant party contributors, their view is worth literally millions more than mine.

And that's why things don't change.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Exactly. And this is how it works in politics but voices aren't equivalent. As a citizen and voter, my view is insignificant unless it's shared by another dozen million people. But the people who own and sell digital content, who may be significant party contributors, their view is worth literally millions more than mine.

And that's why things don't change.

That's not necessarily true. Just look at the EU forcing Microsoft to make a version of Windows without Internet Explorer. Almost no-one in the EU wanted that (it sold almost no copies in the EU), yet the EU still forced them to do it.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If that were 100% true, why'd the GDPR come into effect? Sony's move is taking people's paid-for goods from them. There's no stronger moral enforcement in society than regards Money, Commerce, and their Stuff.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If that were 100% true, why'd the GDPR come into effect? Sony's move is taking people's paid-for goods from them. There's no stronger moral enforcement in society than regards Money, Commerce, and their Stuff.

Yeah, privacy advocates are a very small minority of the population with a lot of political cache. Most people don't care about their privacy, look how many people use mobile devices which are all about harvesting information about you.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

That's not necessarily true. Just look at the EU forcing Microsoft to make a version of Windows without Internet Explorer. Almost no-one in the EU wanted that (it sold almost no copies in the EU), yet the EU still forced them to do it.

I don't se this as remotely equivalent Gamers as indivudals (and sometimes voters) have no voice in politics. In this specific case it's a subset (Fortnite players) of a subset (people who like multiplayer) of a subset (who bought digital content) of a subset (who wan to play on PS4) who are are affected. Not is this a cause which is likely to gain public interest, let alone backing.

The EU has power because it's a powerful collective. As are the lobbying groups who represent the interests of corporations who sell digital content.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Let's not venture too far into politics as that's inappropriate outside of RSPCA forum. Suffice to say something may or may not happen to change the law about content ownership and accessibility.

I'd have thought in the US, a class action lawsuit would be filed resulting in a ruling that Sony can't lock out accounts, without any particular laws being needed.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You can't separate law from politics unless you live in dictatorship or communist country. Law is the absolute embodiment of democracy's tolerances. It's pointless debating a legislation solution because it's wishful thinking if you live in Europe or North America and know how new laws are passed.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Talk about what's happening and what might happen next. Don't talk about why the seas of full of plastic and whether governments are on the payroll or not.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

As a gamer, off course I would like Cross Play across all platforms... As a Gamer I would like Microsoft exclusives on PS4 and Switch, PS4 exclusives on XBox, PC and Switch, and Nintendo Exclusives on PC, PS4 and Xbox!
But hey... let's wake up!

Younger people might not know, but this story was completly the other way around in the past. In other times Cross play existed and companies wanted it on all platforms. Sony was not really against it (although I never heard them say they were in favour), but Microsoft... Oh boy... Microsoft, at the time X360 sold like hot cakes, was tottaly against it.

Not only they were against it on Xbox 260- PS3, but also on X360 - PC. No way in hell Cross Play could happen!

Here's some statements from that time:

"Trion Global Brand Director Alex Rodberg said that while this cross-platform mingling can be done, it's extremely unlikely that such a thing would ever reach live servers: "Microsoft won't let Sony players play against them.""

"Microsoft scrapped plans to allow PC and Xbox 360 gamers to play shooters like Unreal Tournament 3 and Gears of War online together because during tests "console players got destroyed every time"."

"Valve bossman Gabe Newell has said he'd like to implement Steamworks on Xbox 360, but Microsoft has repeatedly resisted, instead placing restrictions on Xbox Live functionality"

What were people saying at the time in foruns?

"... it's against Microsoft's business interests to let Sony piggyback on Live's much larger pool of online players."

So, let's wake up... This is business. And this time roles are inverted. PS4 is on top, and Sony has Microsoft position. This is business... and money rules, whether we like it or not!

Sony is not against Cross Play... Check the lists of supported cross play games... Which system has more games supporting it? Yeap... Sony!

Sony is on the same position as Microsoft was... It doesn't want competition to piggyback on PSN+ much larger pool of online players... It´s sad? It´s business!

Now... this Fortnite stuff...

It sucks... This has nothing to do with Cross Play though! The log in problem could even happen on a single player game. This is a matter of "cross stats" ou "cross login". Not "Cross-Play". Could you log in and nothing would change in the way Cross Play works!

Why this happens???

I don´t know.. maybe it was badly thought... or maybe... It´s Epics fault!

Remeber when Fortnite allowed Cross Play between Xbox and PS4??? It happened several times, and was all over the news... and Epic corrected it... or at least they claimed! But the situation happened several times.

Maybe Sony just got tired and did not liked Epic's attitude. And decided to block non PS4 accounts.

Well.. this needs to be sorted out... I agree... but although the cause of this might have been related to Cross Play, what is at stake here, as I see it, it is not Cross Play at all! Just a Blocked Log in situation.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Eurogamer: Ex-Sony dev says PS4 / console cross-platform block is all about the money

Just in case anybody still buys Sony's position.

 

[iroboto]

Eurogamer: Ex-Sony dev says PS4 / console cross-platform block is all about the money

Just in case anybody still buys Sony's position.

Well to be fair, even Spencer says he totally gets why they have made the choices they have.

I just think ever since Satya, they're okay with opening up the walled garden, which really started in windows, office, etc and even using Apple products at WWDC before we saw big moves in the gaming space to cross play/buy etc.

Perhaps in time Sony will come around if it benefits them which I think it could one day if there are really strong 3P MP titles to cross play in.