Microsoft UWP Discussion

[Deleted member 13524]

http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-pc-games-development-epic-games-gears-of-war

I’m not questioning the idea of a Windows Store. I believe Microsoft has every right to operate a PC app store, and to curate it how they choose.

(...)

The specific problem here is that Microsoft’s shiny new “Universal Windows Platform” is locked down, and by default it’s impossible to download UWP apps from the websites of publishers and developers, to install them, update them, and conduct commerce in them outside of the Windows Store.

(...)

...the good PC stuff isn’t there, with the exception of Microsoft’s own software products. Does Microsoft really think that independent PC developers and publishers, who cherish their freedom and their direct customer relationships, are going to sign up for this current UWP fiasco?

(...)

In my view, if Microsoft does not commit to opening PC UWP up in the manner described here, then PC UWP can, should, must and will, die as a result of industry backlash.

(...)

This day has been approaching for over than 18 months, and I need to give credit to Microsoft folks, especially Phil Spencer, for always being willing to listen to Epic’s concerns with UWP’s paradigm, and to proposed solutions. Because they listened very patiently, I hoped and believed that Microsoft would do the right thing, but here we are. Microsoft’s consumer launch and PR around UWP are in full swing, and this side of the story must be told.

 

[BRiT]

Oh, and here I thought this would be more like his stance that gpus would die and software cpu rendering would be the way forward rants ... that he's been going on about for the past 20 years.

 

[Ike Turner]

Oh, and here I thought this would be more like his stance that gpus would die and software cpu rendering would be the way forward rants ... that he's been going on about for the past 20 years.

Damn you just beat me to it! Came here to post this haha.
Hard to take his views on the industry seriously after his past predictions/rants or even the (IMO) fucked up launch of UE4 (nearly 12 months of hype about it having SVGI then they suddenly realize that not a single consumer PC can get this to run at acceptable perfs while it was pretty clear from Cyril Crassin's 2011 paper that this was not going to be possible..).

Anyway this whole thing sounds like the FUD that Gabe was spreading back when Win8 was launching...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You beat to me creating a thread to cover this. I've read the Eurogamer article on this and I don't get it. What's the big advantage to UWP applications over the applications you can freely distribute? I.e. what is Sweeney worried may be locked behind a walled garden? Is it just apps that'll run on Windows, Xbox and WindowsMobile?

 

[BRiT]

The benefit I can see to UWP is easier ability to deploy to nonPC targets such as phones and consoles. If you're not going for phones and consoles too, then I dont know why you'd target UWP to begin with.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Well TBH although I agree with him on this, I also think it's a little hypocritical that he's so concerned about Microsoft's potential monopoly on software DRM+distribution, but then he's happy to put Gameworks code directly into UE3/4 which contributes to nVidia becoming a monopoly as well.

 

[Ike Turner]

BTW is takes exactly 4 CLICKS to enable side loading in Windows 10.

 

[Rodéric]

Well TBH although I agree with him on this, I also think it's a little hypocritical that he's so concerned about Microsoft's potential monopoly on software DRM+distribution, but then he's happy to put Gameworks code directly into UE3/4 which contributes to nVidia becoming a monopoly as well.

But nVidia either give him tech for free or pay him, whereas MS is trying to get some money from his sales instead...

 

[DieH@rd]

BTW is takes exactly 4 CLICKS to enable side loading in Windows 10.

In how many clicks can I access downloaded game files on my local storage, delete/rename annoying BINK intro so that can boot into the game faster? And will the UWA game even run after that?

Spoiler

Or go to INI file to change some visual setting that is not exposed in the game UI? Or add a shortcut command? Check if too optimistic texture setting is hitting my vram limit?

 

[Ike Turner]

In how many clicks can I access downloaded game files on my local storage, delete/rename annoying BINK intro so that can boot into the game faster? And will the UWA game even run after that?

Spoiler

Or go to INI file to change some visual setting that is not exposed in the game UI? Or add a shortcut command? Check if too optimistic texture setting is hitting my vram limit?

Unfortunately +90% of the users gaming on their PC don't care or know about everything you just enumerated...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Four clicks. THE HORROR!!!!

 

[AzBat]

Looks like Sweeney had a change of heart after a tweet from Phil Spencer...

UWP is a fully open ecosystem, available to every developer, and can be supported by any store. Broad range of tools http://bit.ly/1QIHTf0

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/705795213709561857

I like the sound of this, and look forward to thorough technical details on UWP's planned openness at //build.

https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/705802742883864576

Nice. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[Ike Turner]

Doesn't seem like Tim knew a whole lot about the subject...
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/705851794048602113

 

[iroboto]

Doesn't seem like Tim knew a whole lot about the subject...
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/705851794048602113

He did and does. It's likely being resolved in the background so he is tweeting to slow/stop this movement.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Doesn't seem like Tim knew a whole lot about the subject...
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/705851794048602113

Like much of the internet. It's just easier for people to jump to (bad) conclusions if Microsoft is involved rather than attempt to find out the truth.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Like much of the internet. It's just easier for people to jump to (bad) conclusions if Microsoft is involved rather than attempt to find out the truth.

What truth? Tim Sweeney didn't say any lie.
The Windows Store is the sole place where you can buy certified UWP apps and games. This is part is true and it's what he's complaining about.
It's the equivalent of Valve not letting anyone else sell keys for Steam or CD PROJEKT not letting The Witcher 3 be sold outside GoG.

If you think that's good for the consumer and the market, that's another story. But as of right now there isn't any other truth to the matter.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Except that's patently false as it isn't always the case. There are Microsoft developed UWP games in the Microsoft store that are also on Steam. The Halo: Spartan games are a great example. There's other examples of Windows Store games on Steam as well like Skulls of the Shogun.

UWP games in the Microsoft Store aren't contractually required to ONLY be available in the Microsoft Store. Whether the developer wants to release a version outside of the Microsoft Store for PC's is entirely up to the developer unless it was an exclusive contracted by Microsoft, in which case it'd be up to Microsoft. Now if we're talking about UWP Windows Store apps for Windows Phone, you'd have a point. But it isn't as if console level games are going to be able to run on smartphones anytime soon anyway.

Again, people on the internet jumping to conclusions with regards to Microsoft before bothering to attempt to find out the truth.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Except that's patently false as it isn't always the case. There are Microsoft developed UWP games in the Microsoft store that are also on Steam.

- There is no 3rd-party marketplace that can sell certified UWP apps / games.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Having read a lot more about this and I now understand where Tim Sweeney is coming from, even if he articulated it badly. He is concerned that Microsoft may lock UWP support behind their App Store acknowledging that while you can side load now, that is intended for developers (it's clearly marked as such) and he is concerned Microsoft may enforce/restrict this in some way in the future and/or lock other technologies behind their App Store - just like Apple did with the Mac App Store.

Taking a 30% cut of some potential future software sales sure has to be tempting and they need to replace that Windows OS licensing revenue somehow if Windows 10 will really just be updated for free forever.

 

[iroboto]

Which I'm sure right now concerns are being addressed behind curtains. PR teams are involved etc. Meetings are happening. Tim's quick back track is more of a sign that his concerns were heard by the right people.

We will know the result of this I imagine in a couple months time.