Microsoft upset over leaked images of the 360

[Carl B]

I personally think we'll be given something similar to THIS

I've mentioned prices before. They're no longer listed at M-Systems from what I can see, but the first retailer I googled is here...
http://www.web-tronics.com/25idefasflas.html
1 Gigabyte FFD = $1,250

Now tell me we're gonna see 20/40 gigabytes made out of this stuff in XB360

Oh damn! Wow, good find Shifty. I knew this stuff was supposed to be expensive, but I didn't think it could be on that order. Is that an M-Systems drive? Still, I don't put it past Microsoft to have worked out a special arrangement with them as far as pricing and volume. But I'm going to be shifting gears and maybe placing my bet now on that supposed in-system cache.

Though maybe it is indeed the case that M-Systems has been reduced to the memory provider for the memory cards. I mean, what else could there possibly be besides either the 'hard drive,' some sort of cache, or tthe memory cards?

 

[Acert93]

Here's hoping Bungie has higher resolution models and textures somewhere in their hard drives, cause Halo2 on a big screen at 720p/1080i with the same textures will look like a blurry mess. Just sharper. And let's not even get into the geometry issue.

The rumor IGN reported on for Halo 2.5 did state it would have higher resolution textures, fixed the LOD popping on cut scenes, and other touches. Still a rumor... but bundling Live 360, Halo 2.5, and a HDD would be a hot seller imo.

The only problem I see, still, is if they offer Live w/o a HDD. That begins to fragment your userbase:

Xbox 360
Xbox 360 w/ HDD
Xbox 360 w/ Live
Xbox 360 w/ HDD & Live

I really think they need to make Live 360 a HDD bundle, and throw Halo 2.5 in to make it enticing. (MP3 player features on the HDD would just be icing). This way there is the core system, Xbox 360, and the "Multi Media Online" Xbox 360 which would have a good market penetration.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is that an M-Systems drive?

It was a search for 'Fast Flash Disk FFD' which is the name M-Systems use. I'm pretty certain it's the same stuff, and even if not these are the sort of prices I was finding at M-Systems. When M-Systems' partnership was first announced I went straight to their site. I read the excellent specs, thought 'this is the future', then saw the price tags!

Which explains why FFD hasn't replaced HD in mainstream portable storage, and won't replace it in the near future either. I'm at a loss as to what they bring to the table for XB360 too, unless they were just keeping prices high to milk the miltary market and will broker a deal to tap into mainstream. But surely they'd have done this ages ago with laptops, PDAs and such, if they could get the prices down?

 

[Phil]

I've no idea what Sony will do, but I think it views Microsoft as its most serious threat, so I wouldn't be surprised if it looked at what MS is doing and then adapted its plans to deliver a knockout punch.

in addition, I think it's clear Sony is expecting to sell 80+ million units of the PS3, while I'm not quite sure what Microsoft can realistically expect... 20 million?

This basically means that Sony can invest more into something that has a high chance of turning a profit somewhere down the road. Microsoft on the other hand... well, loosing too much of money on something that may not sell all that much better might be a bit of a gamble. Of course, things could go wrong for Sony too, but it seems they're pretty confident. So yeah, maybe Sony will launch later packing more with a higher loss...

 

[Acert93]

in addition, I think it's clear Sony is expecting to sell 80+ million units of the PS3, while I'm not quite sure what Microsoft can realistically expect... 20 million?

20M?

I am not predicting the X2 will sell more than the PS3 (I do not think it will... at least based on what we know so far). I think the PS3 will be the market leader, and probably by a health margin.

That said, I think 20M is a rediculous number. They sold that many Xboxes in 4 years, and the Xbox has some serious hurdles.

1. MS was an unknown coming in and a lot of gamers had doubts.
2. MS had to struggle to establish franchises against two competitors with rich franchise traditions.
3. MS launched a year later.
4. MS was constantly behind the price curve with a more expensive unit

MS now has established itself as a real console maker (not just someone leveraging the PC and PC games), they have some exciting franchises, will be launching earlier, and have a better price strategy (no bad licensing deal with nVidia, PPC proc, HDD not included, etc...)

Two other variables:

1) Xbox Live has established itself as the premium online service. With 215M broadband customers online by the end of 2005 broadband is beginning to make mainstream penetration a reality. This gen it was a nice selling point; next gen it will be a battlezone and MS has the leg up.

2) MS is going head on against Sony, and it seems Nintendo (at least according to Iwata) is looking more for other Niches and will possibly have a slightly different gaming paradigm. Nintendo is not going to disappear but it is becoming more and more clear that MS and Sony are it for mainstream gaming.

Other factors are MS has better 3rd party and 1st party support now and will most likely aim for a 5 year, not 4 year, cycle with X2. Another factor will be the price that Sony brings the PS3 in at and how much game support the new PS3 will have--if MS can continue its 3rd party growth it could even more positives for MS.

So that is my case that MS will do much better this gen. The ground is set to easily surpass 20M consoles--they did that with a long uphill battle. But 20M seems to totally dismiss the hurdles MS has overcome and the direction they are going.

So you got me interested: Why the 20M number Phil?

What makes you think MS will not be able to build on their first offering?

 

[Qroach]

The only problem I see, still, is if they offer Live w/o a HDD. That begins to fragment your userbase:

Xbox 360
Xbox 360 w/ HDD
Xbox 360 w/ Live
Xbox 360 w/ HDD & Live

I really think they need to make Live 360 a HDD bundle, and throw Halo 2.5 in to make it enticing. (MP3 player features on the HDD would just be icing). This way there is the core system, Xbox 360, and the "Multi Media Online" Xbox 360 which would have a good market penetration.

Quick question, but what makes you think live would be sold seperate from the hard drive?

 

[London Geezer]

A LOT, of which:

4. MS was constantly behind the price curve with a more expensive unit

Just to nitpick, PS2 was paradoxically the most expensive system for a long time. Sony were using their position to keep the price high. Higher than their "more advanced" competitors. They kept selling PS2s like cherries, so they didn't really need to lower the price for a while, and the Xbox was actually cheaper than PS2 for a long time.
Now i think they're pretty much equal, which is still funny when you think about it

 

[Acert93]

Quick question, but what makes you think live would be sold seperate from the hard drive?

Well, that is the question, is it not?

Live has never been sold with a HDD--and cost like $80/yr.

So the question is what is MS going to do with Live. Will it continue to be a separate purchase or will it be part of the HDD bundle to ensure ALL Live users have a HDD. If you know, please tell. I am not aware of any information on this... just past trends.

I am only bringing up the issue--a very real one--that differing SKUs can fragment a user base. MS already appears to be doing this with the X2 and X2+HDD. In the past (Sony HDD, DD64; and other non HDD periphrials like VR, CDs, 32-Rex, etc) addons sold separate from the unit have failed and fragmented. I think the X2 HDD will do well for a lot of reasons.

The question is where does Xbox Live fit in. So far they have charged money for this. Is MS willing to give away a free year with a HDD?

 

[Acert93]

Just to nitpick, PS2 was paradoxically the most expensive system for a long time. Sony were using their position to keep the price high. Higher than their "more advanced" competitors. They kept selling PS2s like cherries, so they didn't really need to lower the price for a while, and the Xbox was actually cheaper than PS2 for a long time.
Now i think they're pretty much equal, which is still funny when you think about it

Yep, your right, my bad.

 

[AzBat]

I understand that some of the prices you've found for M-Systems hard drive replacement tech are expensive, but they did say at the time of the announcement that the technology Microsoft licensed wasn't available yet. Has M-Systems released any new technology since that announcement that would work just as well? They did announce a new venture with SanDisk called U3(www.u3.com).

Tommy McClain

 

[Qroach]

The question is where does Xbox Live fit in. So far they have charged money for this. Is MS willing to give away a free year with a HDD?

Why not? Well think about it this way. If you need thehard drive for xbox live, then there's not much point in selling it seperately form the live package. Xbox live won't cost MS anything siginificant if they decide to bundle it wth something you need/or want. I have a feeling if there's an updated halo 2, it will come on a DVD (not installed) along with the hardrive and xbox live for 100 bucks. After all, its currently is the premier xbox live game.

 

[Mythos]

Plus.. throw in that MS according to rumors will have supply capacity of X 360 as: 20% of low end X360 @ $299 and then 80% premium w/ HDD and stuff for $399. You're either forced to go high end or you're screwed with the low supply of the low spec. X360.

WHAT?


You can update the base model with a hard disk! A person isn't screwed at all by the entry level console. For an online game console, you really need a HDD for real functionality. For those that aren't intrested in online, I think it's a nice option to be able to purchase a console without the HDD because they will see less benefit from the HDD. The money they save they can put towards games instead. Later on if they get cable/dsl and decide they want to go online they can upgrade their console with a HDD. I thought it was fantastic when Sony offered a HDD.

Got it all wrong...

MS is forcing initial X360 buyers into the premium package because the low end X360 will sell up quick. Thus, forcing those that really want a console to either go up stream or wait.

 

[Kolgar]

Halo 2, schmalo boo. I know I'm in the minority, but an upgraded version of this game will not sell Xbox 360 to me. Last night I finally brought myself to finish that dreaded game, and today I've already traded it in.

Gah. Bad on so many levels.

 

[Qroach]

It's not to sell the Xbox 360, it' to sell xbox live.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why would Halo2.5 sell Live! when Halo2 didn't? Wasn't it something like 1 million new subscriptions from 6 million Halo2's sold with free 3 month trial? That's 1/6 cared to try the free trial, and few of those renewed their subscriptions from what I remember reading.

Online gaming isn't a big thing in that way, it seems. Rather than meet up with your friends for some online gaming, I guess people prefer to meet up with their friends in real life. The importance of online is for content distribution.

 

[function]

MS is forcing initial X360 buyers into the premium package because the low end X360 will sell up quick. Thus, forcing those that really want a console to either go up stream or wait.

Or maybe their research has shown them that a large number of people actually want the hard drive.

I don't think that a $300 console + $40 memory card is really that much more appealing than a $400 console bundle that includes the only memory card you'd ever need a plus access to a whole lot of extra perks and services to boot.

Halo 2, schmalo boo. I know I'm in the minority, but an upgraded version of this game will not sell Xbox 360 to me.

I rather get the feeling that nothing will sell an Xbox 360 to you at launch.

 

[AlNom]

Why would Halo2.5 sell Live! when Halo2 didn't?

And why would nothing sell Live by itself?

 

[jvd]

Got it all wrong...

MS is forcing initial X360 buyers into the premium package because the low end X360 will sell up quick. Thus, forcing those that really want a console to either go up stream or wait.

what like the psp value pack in japan ? where that was the only one on shelves as they made so few of the 150$ unit ?

 

[Kolgar]

Got it all wrong...

MS is forcing initial X360 buyers into the premium package because the low end X360 will sell up quick. Thus, forcing those that really want a console to either go up stream or wait.

what like the psp value pack in japan ? where that was the only one on shelves as they made so few of the 150$ unit ?

Is that really the same, though? If you don't buy the PSP value pack, you still need some of those components (case, memory stick, earbuds) and may have to buy them separately. Besides, wasn't PSP only like $199 at launch in Japan? A steal.

I don't see the Xbox 360 hard drive the same way as a PSP case or earbuds - it's optional. Or it is until Microsoft makes the benefits of Xbox Live so compelling that no one would want to be without it.

 

[jvd]

Is that really the same, though? If you don't buy the PSP value pack, you still need some of those components (case, memory stick, earbuds) and may have to buy them separately. Besides, wasn't PSP only like $199 at launch in Japan? A steal.

the only thing u need from that value pack is the memory stick which is 32 megs and costs like 20$ . The rest is high priced trash. You get a pouch not a case and spider man 2 on umd .

I don't think that its worth the extra 100$ in japan . Def not a steal .

I don't see the Xbox 360 hard drive the same way as a PSP case or earbuds - it's optional. Or it is until Microsoft makes the benefits of Xbox Live so compelling that no one would want to be without it.

I don't use ear buds , i don't need a case , i don't need a spider man 2 umd . That is all optional filler crap to sell a system.

I would consider live and a hdd more vital than spider man 2 on umd , ear buds and a pouch