Microsoft screwing up format unification says Next-Gen

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by ROG27, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. QtombeD

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    Thx you just posted just what I thought this save me al lot of typing....:wink:
     
  2. patsu

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    Hypocritical is too strong, IMO. After reading through the thread, I think it's just a case of personal preference plus incomplete information perhaps ?

    What MS has done is to _extend_ a format war. That is expected and consumers will have to vote with their dollars now (and risk losing them should one format loses). This tends to delay adoption due to people sitting on their fences to wait for the victor.

    The only thing I am trying to decide is:
    * Do consumers really need a choice of format ? I mean do I want to choose between TCP/IP and OSI stack (as a consumer) ? Probably not. I'd prefer just 1 standard for format.

    However, the immediate benefit of the format war now is that HD-DVD brought down the reference price (Because they announced a cheaper drive for a start). The low and mid tier BluRay offerings will have to match (and I believe they can).

    It should be good news for consumers, but it may also put the future of BluRay and HD-DVD at risk (if none of the vendors earn enough from this segment to be worhwhile). If the accounting numbers come up short for an extended period, then companies may look elsewhere for $$$ and won't spend that much resources pushing for adoption.

    I reckon I don't want to switch DVDs in the middle of a movie or game. And I'll be getting HD TVs since I want to get rid of my 8-year-old TV. So I hope things work out for the vendors. If Sony stays true to its course, then perhaps I will have a glimpse of BluRay future in PS3 (I don't watch TV/movie on my PC, so HD-DVD support on Windows will have lesser impact for me personally).
     
    #82 patsu, Jan 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2006
  3. fulcizombie

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    HAHAHA ,Sony fans are against monopolies except:
    For the home videogames' industry where they were celebrating all over the net when sega became 3rd party,theywant nintendo to ALSO go third party and they hate the fact that MS entered this industry.

    For the home-movies' industry where they want only the sony format to exist(despite sony being the company that caused this format war) and they are offended and enraged because other companies don't bow down to sony.

    Personally i hope that HD-DVD is the winner.Oh and it's funny how this article mentions disney as a blue ray exclusive but doesn't mention Universal as a HD-DVD exclusive.I really like how MS is putting the heat on a,in a really bad financial situation,Sony.
     
  4. Carl B

    Carl B Friends call me xbd
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    Qualify 'Sony fan'? ;)
     
  5. aaronspink

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    Sony isn't promoting superior technology, it is promoting a more expensive technology which it makes a greater amount of money on via royalty licensing. They expect to make so much money that they are willing to pay cost differentials for certain studios to get them to release content on their proprietary format. Sony is the reason there is a format war. End. Stop.

    HD-DVD and BRD are different. And both are inferior technologies that are at most a point solution as neither has enough data capacity nor bandwidth to support where we really need to be to distribute high quality 1080P motion video content. The industry, and consumers would be better off if both failed until they have a disc format that can deliver 100GB per disc cheaply and reliably.

    Aaron Spink
    speaking for myself.
     
  6. aaronspink

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    Sony moved into the content business relatively recently. In fact, I'm pretty sure that MS has been in the content biz for longer than sony.

    Aaron Spink
    speaking for myself inc.
     
  7. aaronspink

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    They won't put extra episodes on a disc. They already have the capability to due this with many TV shows and purposely choose to distribute the movie across more discs instead. The primary reason being is that consumers don't like paying $100 for 2 discs.

    Aaron Spink
    speaking for myself inc.
     
  8. Sxotty

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    I do not claim to have any insight into which of these formats is better, but I do wonder when has Sony not screwed up format unification? All sony does is come out with proprietary crap that makes other people pay them liscencing fees and then they wonder why they lost money for the first time. They were afraid of MP3 players b/c oh no someone might copy a song so they ceded to market to Apple, and the list goes on. Their management is run by girly men apparently :) Afraid to take risks, they really should remember they made some awesome hardware and they should continue to do so instead of infecting computers with spyware and going crazy wasting money on DRM and developing new standards that are uneeded such as Atrac...
     
  9. patsu

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    Bigus, is this the objective and commonly accepted reason for Sony to push BluRay and for so many others to follow suit ? What do other supporters see in BluRay independent of Sony ? I don't track the format war that closely...

    The initial BluRay mantra was "The best consumer experience [to entice adoption], more room for storage [longer future]". I'm guessing also more room for hi-end players like Sony to innovate rather than cookie cutter low cost manufacturing.

    While HD-DVD was "cheaper to start mass manufacturing [driving cost down quickly], lesser pricing pressure and hence lower risk". Longer future is less relevant because starting investment is minimal. After various iterations of fights and improvements, the boundary is blurer now.

    If we can have the best consumer experiences at lower price, then I'm really glad the HD-DVD camp introduced the low cost players to set the consumer reference price. If BRA plays by the book, they will most likely match the HD-DVD price (with a slight premium probably) for low and mid-level players and content. Afterall, Sony *must* deliver BR drive at very low cost to prevent losing too much money selling PS3.

    The flip side of this "skirmish" is both HD-DVD and BluRay have become stronger since their inceptions. What's left is the marketing message to the consumers: How to attract, differentiate and prevent confusion. May be it's not such a bad thing afterall.
     
    #89 patsu, Jan 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2006
  10. Gibson

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    This topic makes no sense. Toshiba, LG, Sanyo, NEC, Samsung, etc. will all be selling HD-DVD players and drives sans Microsofts involvement. How did Microsoft end up as the culprit behind the high definition format war? Microsoft feels they need a next generation media player to be competitive with the PS3. What other option do they have besides HD-DVD? Blu-Ray for the 360? I shouldn't have to elaborate on why that's not a smart move.

    Sony dropped out of the DVD forum without even submitting the Blu-Ray spec as a candidate for the next generation of optical media. There whole business strategy for developing Blu-Ray was "format war". Just as with Betamax, UMD, Minidisc, etc. they want to be the sole distributor of their proprietary format with all the royalties that entails going directly into their pocket. I don't necessarily blame them for trying to get that marketshare, but putting the blame for this on Microsofts shoulders is really, really reaching. Sony should just change their name to FormatWar Inc. and be done with it.
     
  11. ROG27

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    (*just arguing for arguments sake) show me the definitive market line...I have explained to you what has made Sony an entertainment company all along...and you say no based on your own definitions--no where is it outlined that they are not. Nintendo has always been an entertainment company...have they produced movies or music?...no...but they've always made games...not even videogames...just games in general...is a board game not a form of entertainment? Entertainment industry is defined as the following...products and services with the intention to provide customer with the means to be entertained.

    Why should I concede that I am wrong on a point just because you say to. That is ridiculous. That's like if you told me to say the color black was white because you said so.
     
  12. ROG27

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    Aaron...I'm not speaking about just content...I'm speaking about the entertainment industry as whole--an industry Sony has always had a vested interest in...while MS has recently just come aboard.
     
  13. Platon

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    Man, if you knew how much I agree with you. I really really wouldn't mind seing both those formats crash and burn badly...
     
  14. Carl B

    Carl B Friends call me xbd
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    Gibson - first, welcome to the forum.

    Second, Sony *couldn't* submit the blu-ray spec to the DVD Forum because it's format was inelligible for entry. Part of the submission criteria was backwards compatability with DVD equipment. Other than that I agree they wanted (or chose to have) a fomat war.

    As for 360, I don't think MS went with HD-DVD because they *need* a next-gen media player. As has been discussed, their move seems to have more to do with scuttling blu-ray than actually supporting HD-DVD. Which is valid.
     
  15. Platon

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    For consumers sake we should wait for HVD which is clearly the superior technology...
     
  16. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    /agree
     
  17. archie4oz

    archie4oz ea_spouse is H4WT!
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    True for the most part, although I'd tilt in favor of Blu-Ray since the the organization existed and demo'd long before AOD (HD-DVD's predacessor) was even a paper spec...

    Proprietary formats is hardly a benchmark... Especially for a company had to develop its own media at times in order to sell a new product...

    Wikipedia would be off by about 20 years since Sony first bought into the *entertainment industry* in 1968 when it entered a joint venture w/CBS records and formed CBS/Sony Records

    Actually they don't... It's not their's to do as they please.

    Except Sony didn't *Enter* it, it was invited into a partnership... And it wasn't the first either as JVC had been involved w/the music industry for many years before Sony was, and Pioneer for example also started getting involved w/the movie industry around the same time as Sony, so it's not like Sony was setting some sort of precedent that the record labels or movies studios would panic over...

    Wow, talk about ignorance... :) Blu-Ray (nor HD-DVD) can't be considered proprietary in the classic sense since neither are wholly owned by one entity or another. And by *we* I presume you're referring the consumers who've been buying up 1366x768 panel tv's (or gads worse, some of those 854x480 ED plasmas) for the past couple of years, and wouldn't know 720p from 1080i? "We" don't *need* any of that, it's all just a luxury... I won't speak for HD-DVD, but for the record, yes you can have 1080p content on Blu-Ray...

    I rest my case...
     
    #97 archie4oz, Jan 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2006
  18. Mortimer

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    I'm with Aaron on this. You won't get more episodes per disc for the reason people will not pay the same amount for one disc versus 5 disks for a season of tv-show.

    It's just psychological that people seem to think they don't get their moneys worth if they have to pay 100$ for one disc with one whole season vs. 5 discs.

    That's also one of the reasons Sony is using mpeg2 for their blu ray releases to make it seem like the space is really needed. The other reason is that they don't have to learn to optimize new codecs when mastering the movies.
     
  19. Squeak

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    There are, as with all concepts, shades in between. Very few corporations are completely good or bad but some are worse than others and a few a lot worse.

    microsoft had a "lucky" brake when they were "chosen" to supply the OS for the IBM PC. They have since done everything in their power and used any means to exploit that opportunity to the fullest.
    No corporation ever, before or since, has been able to get such a vice grip on a marked by “natural” means.

    Two things about microsoft worth noting:

    1. They haven't been able to gain monopoly in any marked, where they weren't able to leverage their monopoly.

    2. In all their years of monopoly (25 years), being sole valid provider of a PC OS and being one of the worlds richest corporations, they haven't made one, not even one single breakthrough product, invention or discovery.
     
    #99 Squeak, Jan 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2006
  20. Sis

    Sis mental_v-sync=off;
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    This could just be my scanning through it looking for when they purchased their first entertainment company. Regardless of actual date, the point remains.
    How is that different than any of the other participants? In fact, your very own post seems to indicate this:
     
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