FEATURE: The Road to a Universal Platform

TheChefO

Banned
David Jaffe recently came under some criticism for a few statements to consumer website 1UP about his future visions of the game industry. The big headline, repeated across the Internet for a day or two, was "Ten years from now there will be one console". It was an unguarded comment, following his own nostalgia for the days of rampant console exclusivity. Jaffe expressed annoyance at the current standard of cross-platform development, and wondered if it was coming to the point where the only distinguishing factor from one console to the next would be its first-party software. From there he made the leap that this small distinction might not be enough justification for multiple consoles – therefore, he figured, perhaps we're on a road to a single universal platform...

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4751&Itemid=2

When do you think we will have a universal gaming platform?

Personally I think as long as the industry is as potentially profitable as it is we will always have multiple console choices/competition. Even the movie industry isn't immune to corporate greed getting in the way of standards for consumers. See BR/HD-DVD and HDMI.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks/hopes this will happen. Anyone who knows me knows I've been saying this should and probably will happen for a long time. I recall getting into a long conversation on these boards about the same thing a while back.

The PS5 generation is when I think it could practically happen from all angles the 3 giants agreed to it.

The only thing stopping it now is the seemingly required hardware subsidy that wouldn't fly very well on a single platform situation.

Judging by the way the industry is going, in another 2 generations hardware will probably not be such a huge limiter in types of games out. As it is, maxing out the hardware is going to be pretty costly and with the success of Wii, hardware power isn't necessarily required as long as it's still an upgrade from previous generations. If the companies got together and made a consortium/forum/association or whatever for a new platform, they could likely get the costs down to the point where they could sell the things at profit without charging an arm and a leg (you also have the benefit of multiple manufacturers and higher volume because there's only one).

From almost every angle a single format is the better choice when the content is essentially the reason for owning the format (in this case the console). There are benefits to doing it the way we do now, but overall the benefits of a single platform outweigh the it. From a developer standpoint it would likely make it so much easier -- single platform so every title can take full advantage of it, userbase is guaranteed larger so we could see more niche titles (like what happened with the PS2), etc., etc.

Sony/MS/Nintendo would turn into software companies more than before though as the hardware wouldn't necessarily be their responsibility (they could make their own branded box, but they wouldn't need to) -- they'd probably get a decent share of the royalties on each unit sold if it was set up similar to the DVD forum. They'd be just another publishing giant that happens to be a bit more responsible for some of the details than a company like EA or Ubi.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks/hopes this will happen. Anyone who knows me knows I've been saying this should and probably will happen for a long time. I recall getting into a long conversation on these boards about the same thing a while back.

The PS5 generation is when I think it could practically happen from all angles the 3 giants agreed to it.

The only thing stopping it now is the seemingly required hardware subsidy that wouldn't fly very well on a single platform situation.

Judging by the way the industry is going, in another 2 generations hardware will probably not be such a huge limiter in types of games out. As it is, maxing out the hardware is going to be pretty costly and with the success of Wii, hardware power isn't necessarily required as long as it's still an upgrade from previous generations. If the companies got together and made a consortium/forum/association or whatever for a new platform, they could likely get the costs down to the point where they could sell the things at profit without charging an arm and a leg (you also have the benefit of multiple manufacturers and higher volume because there's only one).

From almost every angle a single format is the better choice when the content is essentially the reason for owning the format (in this case the console). There are benefits to doing it the way we do now, but overall the benefits of a single platform outweigh the it. From a developer standpoint it would likely make it so much easier -- single platform so every title can take full advantage of it, userbase is guaranteed larger so we could see more niche titles (like what happened with the PS2), etc., etc.

Sony/MS/Nintendo would turn into software companies more than before though as the hardware wouldn't necessarily be their responsibility (they could make their own branded box, but they wouldn't need to) -- they'd probably get a decent share of the royalties on each unit sold if it was set up similar to the DVD forum. They'd be just another publishing giant that happens to be a bit more responsible for some of the details than a company like EA or Ubi.

Agreed it would be great for the industry. How would you feel about a set "minimum" spec that HW co's could add if they chose to but it must at least sit at a certain level?

For example:
must have edram >/= x Bandwidth >/= x Size
sys ram >= etc
cpu
gpu
...so on

Reason for a possible up spec would be to mirror some aspects of the pc realm where users could spend more to get a game to render at say 1080p 16xaa instead of the required 1080p 2xaa etc.

The games would have to be written open ended in this regard but I think the option would be a great thing as it allows some of the flexibility of the pc but the ease of use of a console.:smile:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Agreed it would be great for the industry. How would you feel about a set "minimum" spec that HW co's could add if they chose to but it must at least sit at a certain level?

For example:
must have edram >/= x Bandwidth >/= x Size
sys ram >= etc
cpu
gpu
...so on

Reason for a possible up spec would be to mirror some aspects of the pc realm where users could spend more to get a game to render at say 1080p 16xaa instead of the required 1080p 2xaa etc.

The games would have to be written open ended in this regard but I think the option would be a great thing as it allows he flexibility of the pc but the ease of use of a console.:smile:
That would probably work, but I think they'd need to be careful on that. I don't think offering different display modes is the good way to go about things, necessarily though -- it should be a to-the-spec thing... games should be done to the spec and not planning for out of spec modes (like DVDs, etc.). That just gets into dangerous territory -- I don't think they should be trying to emulate the PC world in that regard...

I imagine the rendering pipeline on every unit should be the same -- what happens after the finalized framebuffer image could be up to the CE company (meaning they could stick a realta scaler in or none at all, for example). If you allow for waffling in the rendering pipeline (different AA modes, etc.) then you open the doors to all kinds of messes that I think they'd probably want to avoid.

It would be cool if it was done sort of like DVD players though -- some may have spectacular scalers and offer other features (like divx playback in dvd players now, etc.), but they should all play the game at the same framerate and look the same (framebuffer wise -- output may differ).

There would be a lot of work for something like this to work, but it would be totally doable for the CE/Game industry giants to pull off.
 
I am dumbfounded how anyone can think this would be "great" for the games industry. I am personally of the opinion that it would be absolutely terrible. Sure, there's a definite upside: no more console exclusivity, no more split userbases, arguably greater maxing out of the power of each console. But the downsides are massive.

With the loss of competition, console features would stagnate. Think of all the great, innovative features we are getting this gen: wireless standard out-of-the-box, new motion sensing control schemes (e.g. Wii/Sixaxis), HD movie playback (PS3/360), AV capabilities (e.g. photos, music), online capabilities, custom soundtracks (360), etc. There are more, too; the list goes on and on.

In addition, with a single, dominant console, there's very little incentive to come out with a new console - unless you have a significant competitor breathing down your neck. For example, if there were no Wii or 360, how long do you think Sony would have milked the PS2? A long, long, long time - I mean, it's still doing great now even with all the next-gen offerings out there.

Competition causes these console makers to try to innovate to differentiate themselves, then match each others features to achieve parity, and also to offer maximum value in their offerings to undercut each other. All of these are great wins for the consumer. The advantage of a unified userbase does not even come close to negating that. Would prefer to still be playing a PS2 on your HD set? Or how about playing all your games on $75 Nintendo-sanctioned cartridges? Just a few examples, of many, of what console competition has brought us...
 
I am dumbfounded how anyone can think this would be "great" for the games industry. I am personally of the opinion that it would be absolutely terrible. Sure, there's a definite upside: no more console exclusivity, no more split userbases, arguably greater maxing out of the power of each console. But the downsides are massive.

With the loss of competition, console features would stagnate. Think of all the great, innovative features we are getting this gen: wireless standard out-of-the-box, new motion sensing control schemes (e.g. Wii/Sixaxis), HD movie playback (PS3/360), AV capabilities (e.g. photos, music), online capabilities, custom soundtracks (360), etc. There are more, too; the list goes on and on.

In addition, with a single, dominant console, there's very little incentive to come out with a new console - unless you have a significant competitor breathing down your neck. For example, if there were no Wii or 360, how long do you think Sony would have milked the PS2? A long, long, long time - I mean, it's still doing great now even with all the next-gen offerings out there.

Competition causes these console makers to try to innovate to differentiate themselves, then match each others features to achieve parity, and also to offer maximum value in their offerings to undercut each other. All of these are great wins for the consumer. The advantage of a unified userbase does not even come close to negating that. Would prefer to still be playing a PS2 on your HD set? Or how about playing all your games on $75 Nintendo-sanctioned cartridges? Just a few examples, of many, of what console competition has brought us...

Agreed - but there will come a time when these "features" will fulfill the desires of most gamers out there and if the consensus amoung the game counsel (that decides the standard spec/features) is that a feature should be added in the new version then it would be added.

Innovation would be slowed for sure, but there will come a time when this won't matter. That's the question, when do you think this time will be?
 
I think a AMD-Nvidia like model would be a more practical approach as the hardware production and development would still be manufacturer specific but all software would be hardware independent. Where buying any game would work regardless of the platform. This would allow MS, Sony and Nintendo to compete hardware wise but without the detrimental effects of a fractured software market, which forces consumers to buy all 3 console for full access to the software library of any one generation of consoles.
 
I think a AMD-Nvidia like model would be a more practical approach as the hardware production and development would still be manufacturer specific but all software would be hardware independent. Where buying any game would work regardless of the platform. This would allow MS, Sony and Nintendo to compete hardware wise but without the detrimental effects of a fractured software market, which forces consumers to buy all 3 console for full access to the software library of any one generation of consoles.

I think this model would be too open as one game might perform very poorly on one cpu type/HW set vs another.

I agree with Bobbler that the hardware should perform equally but allow for advantages in superficial things such as AA level, AF level, texture detail, etc.
 
Ain't gonna happen. The market is going to expand further and you'll get more and more niche stuff. You may get some kind of cross-platform standard for basic game stuff, but there will (and should!) always stay some kind of specialisation. Maybe one platform is going to perfect the 3d on a 2d screen thing, and another platform is going to get the 'real' 3d thing right. Maybe one gets crazy with a bodysuit controller, and the other is all about mind-controllers. It will and should never end. Even in the movie industry you've got different standards for sound competing, and its all definitely a good thing and should stay that way. It's an innovation driven market, and the innovation inherently isn't going to come from software alone.
 
I think this model would be too open as one game might perform very poorly on one cpu type/HW set vs another.

I agree with Bobbler that the hardware should perform equally but allow for advantages in superficial things such as AA level, AF level, texture detail, etc.

Name a PC game where peformance is severely affected by what graphics company's video card it was run on? How often is this a major issue and is felt throughout the settings range and not just in the case where an extreme resolution, high AA or high AF was used? AA, AF and texture aren't superficial as they along with resolution are the most prominent settings in PC gaming.
 
I am dumbfounded how anyone can think this would be "great" for the games industry. I am personally of the opinion that it would be absolutely terrible. Sure, there's a definite upside: no more console exclusivity, no more split userbases, arguably greater maxing out of the power of each console. But the downsides are massive.

With the loss of competition, console features would stagnate. Think of all the great, innovative features we are getting this gen: wireless standard out-of-the-box, new motion sensing control schemes (e.g. Wii/Sixaxis), HD movie playback (PS3/360), AV capabilities (e.g. photos, music), online capabilities, custom soundtracks (360), etc. There are more, too; the list goes on and on.

In addition, with a single, dominant console, there's very little incentive to come out with a new console - unless you have a significant competitor breathing down your neck. For example, if there were no Wii or 360, how long do you think Sony would have milked the PS2? A long, long, long time - I mean, it's still doing great now even with all the next-gen offerings out there.

Competition causes these console makers to try to innovate to differentiate themselves, then match each others features to achieve parity, and also to offer maximum value in their offerings to undercut each other. All of these are great wins for the consumer. The advantage of a unified userbase does not even come close to negating that. Would prefer to still be playing a PS2 on your HD set? Or how about playing all your games on $75 Nintendo-sanctioned cartridges? Just a few examples, of many, of what console competition has brought us...

You'd be talking a 10 year lifecycle with this box (or until there was some reason that it needed an upgrade like DVD and HDTVs), but how much do you think graphics are going to matter then? Unless there is a drastic change in the way content is created, seriously drastic, hardware power isn't going to matter as much (especially with successes like Wii/DS proving that it's already marginalized) -- we're going to hit a ceiling of financial investment vs content output that just won't make the mentality of maxing out the hardware practical.

The problem with most of those things you mention is they have little impact upon the core reason people buy consoles... the actual games; the content! Those differences only exist to get you to buy the stuff in the first place and have little actual impact upon the actual experience while playing the game. Maybe I'm the only one, but if all my game box did was play every single game released, I'd be pretty damn pleased!

It's going to turn into the movie industry sooner or later in that respect, where the content on the disc matters, rather than what disc it's on -- the medium type should be irrelevant and as long as a spec is made with enough future proofing too. Look at the HD DVD/BR specs -- they put in a lot of extra room in BD-J and HDi for interesting things to come and I'm not sure why you don't think they wouldn't in something like this.

Also, there is nothing that says something like an Eyetoy or Wiimote couldn't be created mid way through -- accessories like that could be easily added to the spec as they don't change the core spec, only add to it, optionally. There is plenty of room for continued innovation throughout the devices lifespan. The companies would still be competing to bring you content -- your dollar is still fought over.

I guess I don't see these continued "innovations" as all that important to the end experience of me picking up a controller and playing the game I bought. They are novelties at best and mostly just continuations of previous ideas or taken directly from the PC world (which means when making this theoretical box you'd have them borrowing ideas and improving them still, so it isn't like this box would be a console that only played games and nothing more). Wireless controllers was the next step, Online play was an obvious next step, media playback has been there ever since disc based media was used because it was easy to add, other features (picture viewers, web browsers, etc.) are all slowly evolved over time (mostly from the PC).

Even in the DVD world, DVD player features aren't quite stagnant (even in a old format that was created around '95) -- we have some that play SACDs/DVD-As, some that play Divx movies, some that will record stuff, some that are fantastic upscalers, etc. There is still going to be competition, because you'll have half a dozen or more manufacturers trying to vie for your dollar. There'd be a lot more room to play in something like a game console than a DVD player.

And yes, if PS3, for example, had every game exclusively for the next 10 years, I'd be happy as could be. Hell, even if PS2 had all the games exclusively made for it for the next 5 years, I'd still be happy (and PS2 has almost no extra features, but it plays games!).

There are benefits to console competition, but they certainly don't outweigh the benefits of a single platform like you say! Unless... you buy consoles merely for playing in the GUI and not playing games?
 
Only way console-makers would agree to this is if they could screw you, one such scheme is:

  • They each make a part of the system (cpu, gpu, assembly, controller, peripherals) and get the manufacturing price down themselves and charge whatever they want but have the consequences of too high a price not being beneficial.
  • Game developers pay higher royalties but have lower programming costs, game prices WILL rise.
  • Developers will view the machine as a MONTSTER BEHEMOTH FROM HELL and while there will be shitloads and shitloads of software making the console manufacturers happy, who's going to feel like making a AAA game?
  • They'd all launch handhelds and figure a way to screw you up the ass if you don't have their handheld.
 
Name a PC game where peformance is severely affected by what graphics company's video card it was run on?
I'm pretty sure if you use an S3 card or built in Intel graphic chipset for anything, you'll be pretty severely limited in any game. But that's besides the point. Replacing a user base of a handful of incompatible systems with a user base of compatible systems but with infinite hardware variations is not much (if any) of an improvement.The PC development model is not something you really want to emulate here; the support and compatibility issues alone are enough to drive most developers crazy.
 
You'd be talking a 10 year lifecycle with this box (or until there was some reason that it needed an upgrade like DVD and HDTVs), but how much do you think graphics are going to matter then? Unless there is a drastic change in the way content is created, seriously drastic, hardware power isn't going to matter as much (especially with successes like Wii/DS proving that it's already marginalized) -- we're going to hit a ceiling of financial investment vs content output that just won't make the mentality of maxing out the hardware practical.
I fundamentally disagree with the premise of your argument. Sure, in a hypothetical world where we can't find much more use for increases in computing power (remember, it can be applied to more than just graphics), then yes, we must as well standardize on a common hardware platform. However, I just don't see this coming to pass, at least not anytime in the very-far-distant future. There are so many frontiers out there left to tap - "real" AI, virtual reality, vision and camera schemes, other control mechanisms that haven't even been thought of - that to discuss this is just nonsense. I mean, we might as well also talk about whether this mythical system will be portable enough to fit in my personal spaceship that I'll have by then, too (obviously, that's sarcasm, but my point is that it's such a pipe dream at this point that it's not worth discussing).
 
Ain't gonna happen. The market is going to expand further and you'll get more and more niche stuff. You may get some kind of cross-platform standard for basic game stuff, but there will (and should!) always stay some kind of specialisation. Maybe one platform is going to perfect the 3d on a 2d screen thing, and another platform is going to get the 'real' 3d thing right. Maybe one gets crazy with a bodysuit controller, and the other is all about mind-controllers. It will and should never end. Even in the movie industry you've got different standards for sound competing, and its all definitely a good thing and should stay that way. It's an innovation driven market, and the innovation inherently isn't going to come from software alone.

The market is get bigger and bigger and eventually someone going to end up the Windows/Intel of the videogame market and someone is going to end up the Linux/IBM of the video games market. If you could run Windows apps on Linux and x86 oses on PPC you would see more diverse marketplaces. Market competition is good for consumers but not at the price of access.
 
Only way console-makers would agree to this is if they could screw you, one such scheme is:
I don't quite agree with those points:
They each make a part of the system (cpu, gpu, assembly, controller, peripherals) and get the manufacturing price down themselves and charge whatever they want but have the consequences of too high a price not being beneficial.
The production would be done by whatever CE companies want to -- competition prevents gouging for long if that's what you're implying (uptake might take over a year, as initial prices might be higher, I admit, but they will fall fast).
Game developers pay higher royalties but have lower programming costs, game prices WILL rise.
Game developers (or big publishers) would be part of the group responsible for making the system, so they'd have a say. Royalties wouldn't need to be very high, because there wouldn't be a hardware loss that needed to be offset. In all likelihood game prices would drop a bit over time, because competition between software is actually increased when they all have to play on the same platform.
Developers will view the machine as a MONTSTER BEHEMOTH FROM HELL and while there will be shitloads and shitloads of software making the console manufacturers happy, who's going to feel like making a AAA game?
I'll answer this with: Why do movie studios still make 100+m dollar movies? Surely they could get away with just making 1million dollar low budget movies! I don't understand why you'd think software developers/publishers would get complacent when they are very much going to be competing. Ridiculous movie budgets should tell you there is little reason to fear that -- EA/Sony/Nintendo/MS/Capcom/Namco/Ubi/SE/etc. are still going to be spending out the ass to get your dollar.
They'd all launch handhelds and figure a way to screw you up the ass if you don't have their handheld.
I don't quite understand this logic, as the same could be done for the handheld world... but who cares because at worst it would be just like it is now (which seems preferable for some of you) -- I don't know why they'd all of a sudden try to screw people in the ass on the handheld front.
 
I'm pretty sure if you use an S3 card or built in Intel graphic chipset for anything, you'll be pretty severely limited in any game. But that's besides the point. Replacing a user base of a handful of incompatible systems with a user base of compatible systems but with infinite hardware variations is not much (if any) of an improvement.The PC development model is not something you really want to emulate here; the support and compatibility issues alone are enough to drive most developers crazy.

S3 cards or Intel IGPs aren't meant to seriously compete as 3d gaming cards. Videocards do serve other functions like driving your display so you can see your emails and or type your posts.

MS, Sony and Nintendo aren't going to create as many variations as Compaq, Dell, GateWay and about 100 other PC and component manufacturers. PC gaming has to deal with that and not console gaming where inclusion would revolve around the control of 3 companies not a 1000.
 
Nintendo will never pair up. Sony and MS, a pair up has been speculated about as a sony builds the hardware and ms the system software type thing. Personally I'm not for this, as I think the hardware will take a big hit if there's no high end competition. Basically, I think PS3 had no competition would have had a 7600GT instead of a 7800GTX, because with no competition, why not? It'd still be vastly more powerful than Nintendos console.

So yeah, this wont happen. It's one of those things that's been kicked around for years.
 
I fundamentally disagree with the premise of your argument. Sure, in a hypothetical world where we can't find much more use for increases in computing power (remember, it can be applied to more than just graphics), then yes, we must as well standardize on a common hardware platform. However, I just don't see this coming to pass, at least not anytime in the very-far-distant future. There are so many frontiers out there left to tap - "real" AI, virtual reality, vision and camera schemes, other control mechanisms that haven't even been thought of - that to discuss this is just nonsense. I mean, we might as well also talk about whether this mythical system will be portable enough to fit in my personal spaceship that I'll have by then, too (obviously, that's sarcasm, but my point is that it's such a pipe dream at this point that it's not worth discussing).

As I said, unless there are drastic fundamental changes to the way content is created (programming of all things, art, sound, etc.), it's going to get way too costly to hit the limits of hardware. Very few games will do that this generation on 360/PS3, I'd say -- only the best teams and/or biggest budget are going to get close. With the way the market is, it's not going to get easier to swallow those budgets.

Do you think 20+ million dollar budgets are practical for all that many games? A good selling game now days isn't going to be necessarily selling more than a good selling game of 5 years ago -- it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that after a certain point ridiculous budgets to get the prettiest and most complex games just aren't going to be practical. I think we'll find this gen that almost no 20million game is going to be practical (especially with the much more even sales split -- no 100+m user bases this gen). I think we found that out last gen, even -- how many games busted past 20million and made a profit? a handful at most? There's going to be a very real financial limit that'll likely be hit before graphics/gameplay/whatever limits can be in the future. I only mentioned graphics because that takes a significant amount of the system resources -- their power requirements also don't scale nearly as fast as graphics do.

Real AI isn't going to just magically come from more powerful hardware -- it's going to be a significant money investment to do something like that, regardless of hardware power which makes it impractical. None of those things you mention are magically free with more power and new control methods have little to do with console power (they are essentially accessories). They all cost time and money, some things mentioned would cost significantly more than they are worth too, even with the current setup in the console market.

Console power is going to be marginalized one way or another in the generations coming up -- if not by sales trends of Wii convincing Sony/MS/Nintendo that it isn't necessarily or financing of games getting outrageous, it'll be because consumers just won't see the benefit of upgrading when they can barely make out the difference between games for a new system and games for an old one and.
 
Nintendo will never pair up. Sony and MS, a pair up has been speculated about as a sony builds the hardware and ms the system software type thing. Personally I'm not for this, as I think the hardware will take a big hit if there's no high end competition. Basically, I think PS3 had no competition would have had a 7600GT instead of a 7800GTX, because with no competition, why not? It'd still be vastly more powerful than Nintendos console.

So yeah, this wont happen. It's one of those things that's been kicked around for years.

Except nobody is talking about now -- if they tried it now, that would absolutely be the case, I've no doubt about it... but what happens in the future when console power isn't necessarily most important thing? (diminishing returns, etc.)

What happens when financial limits create artificial walls where it just isn't profitable to create the graphics that would max out the highest end hardware because of a finite user base? Is it really necessary to put the most powerful thing in a box and sell it at a loss then?
 
Back
Top