Microsoft announces external HD-DVD drive for Xbox 360

[London Geezer]

Actually HDTV hasn't even taken off yet because it's still hundreds of dollars offer a HD reciever and you get like 10 channels.

If MS will have HD Tuner cards for windows next year that's good timing, the broadcast stations won't be all HD until 2009.

So while they're losing ground, it's just a trickle right now as the support for HDTV stations is paltry. And I don't think windows will ever overtake the set-top box, but what they will offer is users a probably more affordable choice, and different options. Also the abilitiy to stream one show to many screens in your house is a good selling point.

Well i don't know about the US, but in the UK the HDTV standard was only finalised in September (i think) and still, one third of the flatscreens sold in 2005 in the UK were HDTVs. In 2006, analysts expect 3 million HD-Ready (Europe's HDTV standard) TVs will be sold. That's a lot of units and it will keep on growing. And that's WITHOUT any HD broadcasts, which means all of those are technically "early adopters"!! Pretty amazing if you ask me, it shows people are more willing to get quality stuff for their houses, and the fact that flatscreens just look better in a house than big bulky CRT TVs.

Obviously some people (still the majority) will choose the cheaper option, but that's valid for anything, and HDTVs in Europe have come down in price so much and so quickly, acceptance will only grow. Especially with Sky HD starting this spring, HDDVD in march, X360, one day PS3... It will only get better!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The World Cup is probably the prime selling point of HDTVs in Europe, I'd guess. Buy now to be sure of that HD goodness as England thrashes the rest of the world!

 

[London Geezer]

The World Cup is probably the prime selling point of HDTVs in Europe, I'd guess. Buy now to be sure of that HD goodness as England thrashes the rest of the world!

Basically yes, and even MORE amazing is that it's still NOT 100% guaranteed that we'll get to see the World Cup in HD!!!
For once though, the power of football comes in handy

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Isn't it?! It's not actually confirmed the Cup will be broadcast in HD?!

 

[London Geezer]

Isn't it?! It's not actually confirmed the Cup will be broadcast in HD?!

It's "likely" to be broadcast in HD............

If SkyHD launch in time AND the BBC simulcasts it, then yes we'll get it... But you know how things are like here in good old Brittany.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well i don't know about the US, but in the UK the HDTV standard was only finalised in September (i think) and still, one third of the flatscreens sold in 2005 in the UK were HDTVs. In 2006, analysts expect 3 million HD-Ready (Europe's HDTV standard) TVs will be sold. That's a lot of units and it will keep on growing. And that's WITHOUT any HD broadcasts, which means all of those are technically "early adopters"!! Pretty amazing if you ask me, it shows people are more willing to get quality stuff for their houses, and the fact that flatscreens just look better in a house than big bulky CRT TVs.

Obviously some people (still the majority) will choose the cheaper option, but that's valid for anything, and HDTVs in Europe have come down in price so much and so quickly, acceptance will only grow. Especially with Sky HD starting this spring, HDDVD in march, X360, one day PS3... It will only get better!

sorry, I meant HDTV as in HD TV Broadcasts, they haven't caught on since there's hardly any channels available right now. For windows to get HD tuner cablecards next year is good timing in the scheme of things.

 

[Carl B]

I'm trying to scale back my involvement in this thread (it's a bitter slog!), but thought I'd dump this piece of info here rather than start a new thread for it or put it elsewhere. I don't think it *means* much, but it's interesting to see an analyst make such a decision/statement after CES rather than before.

...“It's time to put a stake in the ground regarding the future of the high-definition DVD format: Blu-ray has won,” declared Adrienne Downey, senior analyst with Semico Research Corp., in an e-mail newsletter issued on Tuesday (Jan. 10).

“Walking around CES, it was obvious that much of the enthusiasm and momentum is on the Blu-ray side. The Blu-ray Disc Association's booth was prominent, as were the Blu-ray displays (actual products) at each of the companies supporting the format,” Downey said in the newsletter...

http://www.eet.com/news/latest/show...1XZEAGQSNDBCCKHSCJUMEKJVN?articleID=175803569

 

[expletive]

Some very releveant news from Amir on AVS Forum:

Good news! Just received confirmation from Toshiba that their players indeed support 480P/720P/1080i on component output. We are asking them to have their retailers/specs updated to properly reflect the capabilities of the player.

Amir

Heres the thread, post #2100:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=625238&page=70&pp=30

Aside from the obvious, this leads me to believe that an HDMI out on the 360 is LESS likely on the current revision than it was before, but we'll see. This makes that actually LESS relevant BUT it will prevent the 360 from upsampling DVDs (to 720p, 1080i )for those who would ever care about doing that.

 

[BTOA]

Some very releveant news from Amir on AVS Forum:



Heres the thread, post #2100:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=625238&page=70&pp=30

Aside from the obvious, this leads me to believe that an HDMI out on the 360 is LESS likely on the current revision than it was before, but we'll see. This makes that actually LESS relevant BUT it will prevent the 360 from upsampling DVDs (to 720p, 1080i )for those who would ever care about doing that.

Wow, if thats true I wonder what Hollywood has to say about this.

But in other news, it'll mean that Xbox 360 can output HD-DVD content via component then.

 

[Mmmkay]

Aside from the obvious, this leads me to believe that an HDMI out on the 360 is LESS likely on the current revision than it was before, but we'll see. This makes that actually LESS relevant BUT it will prevent the 360 from upsampling DVDs (to 720p, 1080i )for those who would ever care about doing that.

Post #2156 makes things a bit clearer:

OK, here is some AVS Forum exclusive news . Folks have been debating the status of ICT for a while. So I thought I share the latest with you.

The whole ICT situation is now settled. It is part of the spec (sorry). If the flag is set, the resolution needs to be lowered. This part you knew I assume.

The new part is what I alluded to yesterday. Namely, having clear labeling on the disc if the ICT flag is set. This is now in. No, it won't say the disc will self destruct if you play it . But you will be able to clearly identify discs with the flag set with standardized messaging to the consumer on the disc. So if you want to vote with your pocketbook, you can.

There is a provision for the flag not being set if the local governmental rules disallow it. So you may want to brush up on your foreign language skills until such time we have regulations like this in the US . Now, where did I put my Nihon-go book….

Amir

Which (and as I was pretty much expecting it to be in the end) means that HD over component is entirely at the whim of the content provider. This is not withstanding the fact that the 360 addon would still require HDCP over a digital output to conform to AACS and HD-DVD Licensing Agreements anyway.

 

[BTOA]

Originally Posted by amirm
Oops. Sorry.

Both BD and HD DVD discs will use AACS. AACS has a feature, borrowed from an earlier standard (DTCP) that says if a flag is present in the source, the ICT, the player must lower the resolution of analog video output to 960x540. Note that once this is done, the player is free to upsample back up to 1080i, 1080p or whatever. Of course, upsampling doesn't bring back the details lost but does allow easy compatibility with your display so that it doesn't have to mode switch. It is up to player vendors to upsample or mode switch btw.

As I mentioned, this reduced resolution is still above current DVD resolution of 720x480. And since downsampling will clean up noise to some extent, the actual picture quality may be somewhat better than these numbers represent. Finally, if your display can't resolve better than 960x540, you have no worry. You also have no worry if you have HDCP DVI or HDMI input on your display.

I came back from CES with a terrible cold so hopefully this is making sense to you .

Amir

It still sounds like it'll look the same as regular DVD. :|

 

[randycat99]

...DVD level resolution, but at a data density of 36 Mb/s or so... So that isn't so bad for the lower end of hdtv users and all sdtv users. It suggests a rock solid DVD-esque image, virtually free from any possibility of compression artifacts (hopefully). If the downsampling is done "right" in the player, it ensures best high frequency utilization for typical sd resolutions (something that DVD has to "smooth down" as you approach its resolution limit).

The unexpected perk from all of this, is contrary to claims that BR/HD-DVD will not have any benefits for 85% of video users, this will serve that 85% with a theoretical benefit for getting the player and buying the discs. It's not the full benefit, but "a" benefit, nonetheless. Quite possibly, a benefit more pronounced than buying a fancy Monster cable...and we know how easily the average consumer will fall for "cable mania" and manage to see a benefit in the end.

 

[Mmmkay]

...DVD level resolution, but at a data density of 36 Mb/s or so... So that isn't so bad for the lower end of hdtv users and all sdtv users. It suggests a rock solid DVD-esque image, virtually free from any possibility of compression artifacts (hopefully). If the downsampling is done "right" in the player, it ensures best high frequency utilization for typical sd resolutions (something that DVD has to "smooth down" as you approach its resolution limit).

The unexpected perk from all of this, is contrary to claims that BR/HD-DVD will not have any benefits for 85% of video users, this will serve that 85% with a theoretical benefit for getting the player and buying the discs. It's not the full benefit, but "a" benefit, nonetheless. Quite possibly, a benefit more pronounced than buying a fancy Monster cable...and we know how easily the average consumer will fall for "cable mania" and manage to see a benefit in the end.

Well it's not like the video is re-authored at that bitrate, and native resolution artefacts will still be present. Yes it will be better quality than DVD, but surely that was always known.

It does mean however that the 360 addon could be entirely transparent to the end user by upsampling the 540p content back to 1080p (or whatever is set in the dashboard) before passing it over component.

 

[randycat99]

Re-authored? What benefit would that be, if it was the case?

Also, compression artifacts of native resolution will be scaled down in size, as well. Most likely they will be scaled to the point of imperceptibility at ED+ resolutions. I'll agree though that color depth resolution at dark levels could still be an issue. Hopefully 36 Mb/s of image data should be sufficient to minimize it effectively.

 

[Sis]

...DVD level resolution, but at a data density of 36 Mb/s or so... So that isn't so bad for the lower end of hdtv users and all sdtv users. It suggests a rock solid DVD-esque image, virtually free from any possibility of compression artifacts (hopefully). If the downsampling is done "right" in the player, it ensures best high frequency utilization for typical sd resolutions (something that DVD has to "smooth down" as you approach its resolution limit).

The unexpected perk from all of this, is contrary to claims that BR/HD-DVD will not have any benefits for 85% of video users, this will serve that 85% with a theoretical benefit for getting the player and buying the discs. It's not the full benefit, but "a" benefit, nonetheless. Quite possibly, a benefit more pronounced than buying a fancy Monster cable...and we know how easily the average consumer will fall for "cable mania" and manage to see a benefit in the end.

Actually better than DVD level resolution, at 960x540 (vs DVD at 720x480). But totally agree with your point about benefits even with non-HD sets.

 

[Mmmkay]

Re-authored? What benefit would that be, if it was the case?

Also, compression artifacts of native resolution will be scaled down in size, as well. Most likely they will be scaled to the point of imperceptibility at ED+ resolutions. I'll agree though that color depth resolution at dark levels could still be an issue. Hopefully 36 Mb/s of image data should be sufficient to minimize it effectively.

Well it was just the way you said "DVD level resolution, but at a data density of 36 Mb/s" I mean downsampling by nature will discard a proportional amount of data from the 36Mbit stream. Saying it's like a DVD at 36Mb/s is a bit disingenuous.

Imagine a (hyperbolic) scenario with a 1080p MPEG2 video authored at 8Mbps having ICT applied, versus a 540p video authored at 8Mbps.

 

[randycat99]

Well, I don't really see what the great distinction would be between 36 Mb/s downsampled to DVD resolution and a real 36 Mb/s DVD (if one were to exist). Basically, I was just making mention of the perk of a high-detail "master" associated with a 36 Mb/s feed squeezed down to ED+ resolution will result in all the detail that can fit into that resolution will be present plus HD-level noise artifacts will be shifted out-of-range (hopefully) when downsampling and presenting on SD/ED format. Otoh, I would agree with you that if there are excessive motion-related artifacts or drastic loss in detail under high motion effects in the HD feed at 36 Mb/s, there won't be much benefit gained when downsampling and presenting at SD/ED formats.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

That still represents a 50% pixel density increase vs. DVD. Not that this is what I'd be aiming for if I wanted to move to a HD video format, but at least lets get all of our numbers in order.

 

[expletive]

That still represents a 50% pixel density increase vs. DVD. Not that this is what I'd be aiming for if I wanted to move to a HD video format, but at least lets get all of our numbers in order.

Well that means people without HDMI get to pay early adopter prices but dont get the early adopter benefits. I dont see people shelling out what theyre going to be asked to shell out for an HD movie player for such a marginal improvement. In terms of adoption i would conclude that those with component only will probably fall 'out of scope' in terms of potential consumers for the new movies. Plus its adding another layer of complexity that would keep a lot more on the sidelines. I suppose i understand why the studios are doing this but i think it REALLY hurts them in terms of adoption.

 

[randycat99]

You act like these "early adopters" have bought the last hdtv they ever intend to buy. The very nature of them being early adopters suggests they are willing to (and have the expendable cash to) buy whatever is up and coming. Most certainly they will be in the market for a newer generation hdtv. Quite likely, they will have an eye on one of those 1080p hdtv's for their next tv purchase, just to have the best thing that can be bought. So the irony is that this looks pretty good for the coming hd disc formats- the early adopters will be leading the charge! Hmmm, maybe they should be named more accordingly...oh wait, they are already called early adopters.

...and maybe this is news to you, but early adopters always get burned in some way or another, as technology advances. That's inherent to the early adopter lifestyle. The upside is they are always playing with the latest gadgets before everyone else. Being a real "early adopter" essentially means you feel the risks are worth indulging in the latest stuff- hence, the resultant buying habits.