Microsoft acquired Activision Blizzard King for $69 Billion on 2023-10-13

I Disagree... Since it´s an IP owned by Sony, I see it just as outsorced work. Owning the IP makes all the diference! If the IP was from From, then Sony would be paying for it not to come out on Xbox.

I agree. Sunset overdrive being exclusive to Microsoft platforms and Demon Souls and Bloodborne being exclusive to Sony platforms seems really clear cut. It's when IP has a history of appearing on a platform then disappears is when it gets more complicated.
 
Perhaps I really am missing the point of the argument...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but no one in the conversation has said "exclusive games are bad" as literally everyone does exclusives, right?

But that the scope and scale of a major publisher acquisition in the manner MS are attempting would inherently close the market down from other players without MS direct consent and approval process.

And call of duty being a historically third party franchise for 99 percent of its life cycle and having sales that equal a huge percentage of the gaming market sales annually inherently would most clearly show the disparity in what we are talking about right?

Which is why I thought cod was being brought up in the court documents. If Sony is outright just saying "exclusivity is bad, how dare they", of course that's stupid and makes zero sense as an argument on top of being hypocritical as heck.

But in this specific situation my assumption was that's not what's being presented, regarding how MS are attempting to snap up many publishers and lock down dominance of what is normally a huge part of the third party market.

Sony for example out right attempting to buy square enix for example would also I think be a completely different scenario than making a deal for a handful of exclusive games, timed or otherwise.

Again if I misunderstood the argument being made by Sony that MS is responding to then that's on me. But that is the argument I would be making if i was Sony, if they were smart. Not about exclusivity as a concept which is a fact of the industry, but the scale and enormity of said attempted exclusivity being inherently anti competitive in practice.

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Although I will say it's pretty funny how everyone ignores Nintendo in the console market depending on their convenience despite actually being the market leader. What an equally enviable and frustrating position to be in. Maybe switch 2 will change things up for them

All you are doing is trying to change what is happening to make it into a negative. what is the difference between buying Activision/ Blizzard a process that started in January and will not end until at least half way through 2023. and buying 10 game studios over the course of two years What makes one or the other better ? Sony sold double the amount of consoles as MS did last generation. Since the start of this generation Sony has bought about a dozen developers including bungie. How else would you expect MS to compete ? Grow their own studios and only grow their own studios ? There is no way a company can catch up to the market leader that is starting their own studios , making exclusive deals and buying up developers by simply growing internal studios.

You state stuff like Oh COD was historically third party. What does that matter ? Why yet another arbitrary mincing of words ? It was third party because they never launched their own platform. Now they will be owned by a console maker and have their content on that platform. It's no different than something like Insomiac that has made games for all platforms and is now only making them for Sony.

COD is brought up in documents because Sony doesn't want to loose the revenue stream and exclusive perks they get due to their marketing deal with Activision. Why bring up Square just bring up Bungine that Sony already bought. If you want to bring up Square then you can look at the Square titles that sony paid to be exclusive to the playstation platform.


I think you are missing the arguement. MS is saying Look the market leader is growing their own studios , buying up third party content and buying up third party developers. So if the market leader can do this then why can't we ? MS has also stated they hey unlike Sony we are willing to keep ssome of the games on their platform because it makes financal sense. Not just that but it also makes sense that if it isn't exclusive to our platform it might as well be on as many platforms as possible. So that is why they reached out to Valve who only just in the last year got COD back I believe and nintendo who has never had it. COD on the switch would give them a platform with another 120m users. Not only that but cod isn't on any streaming platform. So ms can reach even more that way. This is all already more than anything sony has ever offered.



From my stand point if you want a more competitive market you are going to restrict the market leader. It makes zero sense to restrict the third place party . All that will do is make it harder for them to compete until they leave the market.

I think you even see that with MS's response and them saying hey if you want to do an anti trust case in the gaming market lets do it because we don't have any market share to be a monopoly.


For me I think if this does go through and sony never signs the 10 year agreement it will be extremely hilarious if MS says nope to bad and just puts it on everything else known to man . Cod amico addition !
 
I agree. Sunset overdrive being exclusive to Microsoft platforms and Demon Souls and Bloodborne being exclusive to Sony platforms seems really clear cut. It's when IP has a history of appearing on a platform then disappears is when it gets more complicated.
Insomniac owns Susnset over drive IP. MS allowed them to keep the ip in exchange for exclusivity. So they are different scenarios. Sunset over drive 2 can come out on ps5 if they wanted to make it. Bloodborne 2 can never come out on the xbox
 
It is part of why Microsoft decides to buy up publishers and developers when they can. 2nd party deals have burned Microsoft. The last one that worked, I think, was Gears. Epic was the perfect partner at the perfect time, but as for the rest, Microsoft has not been doing that great with them. It also takes a long time to startup studios from scratch to make "AAAA" content. Even longer than past generations. With Bethesda and Activision, at least Microsoft has a chance to right the first-party ship. There is little downside for them, exclusive or not. Well, outside of regulatory bodies, that is.

Don't forget Mass effect. First one was PC/Xbox and then they started putting them on other platforms. Really hurt MS as that was a great franchise
 
All you are doing is trying to change what is happening to make it into a negative. what is the difference between buying Activision/ Blizzard a process that started in January and will not end until at least half way through 2023. and buying 10 game studios over the course of two years What makes one or the other better ? Sony sold double the amount of consoles as MS did last generation. Since the start of this generation Sony has bought about a dozen developers including bungie. How else would you expect MS to compete ? Grow their own studios and only grow their own studios ? There is no way a company can catch up to the market leader that is starting their own studios , making exclusive deals and buying up developers by simply growing internal studios.

You state stuff like Oh COD was historically third party. What does that matter ? Why yet another arbitrary mincing of words ? It was third party because they never launched their own platform. Now they will be owned by a console maker and have their content on that platform. It's no different than something like Insomiac that has made games for all platforms and is now only making them for Sony.

COD is brought up in documents because Sony doesn't want to loose the revenue stream and exclusive perks they get due to their marketing deal with Activision. Why bring up Square just bring up Bungine that Sony already bought. If you want to bring up Square then you can look at the Square titles that sony paid to be exclusive to the playstation platform.


I think you are missing the arguement. MS is saying Look the market leader is growing their own studios , buying up third party content and buying up third party developers. So if the market leader can do this then why can't we ? MS has also stated they hey unlike Sony we are willing to keep ssome of the games on their platform because it makes financal sense. Not just that but it also makes sense that if it isn't exclusive to our platform it might as well be on as many platforms as possible. So that is why they reached out to Valve who only just in the last year got COD back I believe and nintendo who has never had it. COD on the switch would give them a platform with another 120m users. Not only that but cod isn't on any streaming platform. So ms can reach even more that way. This is all already more than anything sony has ever offered.



From my stand point if you want a more competitive market you are going to restrict the market leader. It makes zero sense to restrict the third place party . All that will do is make it harder for them to compete until they leave the market.

I think you even see that with MS's response and them saying hey if you want to do an anti trust case in the gaming market lets do it because we don't have any market share to be a monopoly.


For me I think if this does go through and sony never signs the 10 year agreement it will be extremely hilarious if MS says nope to bad and just puts it on everything else known to man . Cod amico addition !
Why are you so annoyed that Sony is just better than MS at their console business that you want MS to buy off important multibillion multiplatform studios and their most mportant multiplatform IPs in gaming history as a supposed "balancing" act?
Sony is the market leader because they deserve it and are simply better.
 
Don't forget Mass effect. First one was PC/Xbox and then they started putting them on other platforms. Really hurt MS as that was a great franchise
And XBOX got Tekken, Final Fantasy, Ridge Racer, Air Combat, Devil May Cry and a shitload of other ex-Playstation exclusives. I dont get your whining.
 
I Disagree... Since it´s an IP owned by Sony, I see it just as outsorced work.
Owning the IP makes all the diference! If the IP was from From, then Sony would be paying for it not to come out on Xbox.
Sort of splitting hairs here, because the reason why any platform holder would make a deal with a 3rd party to work on an original IP that the platform holder would own would be to exclude the release of that IP on other platforms. In the case of Bloodborne, Sony would also ignore it when they were going back and patching games for Pro and PS5, excluding it from enhanced next gen support.
 
Sort of splitting hairs here, because the reason why any platform holder would make a deal with a 3rd party to work on an original IP that the platform holder would own would be to exclude the release of that IP on other platforms. In the case of Bloodborne, Sony would also ignore it when they were going back and patching games for Pro and PS5, excluding it from enhanced next gen support.
Insightful. Didn’t see this perspective.
 
Sort of splitting hairs here, because the reason why any platform holder would make a deal with a 3rd party to work on an original IP that the platform holder would own would be to exclude the release of that IP on other platforms. In the case of Bloodborne, Sony would also ignore it when they were going back and patching games for Pro and PS5, excluding it from enhanced next gen support.
Sony didnt patch any of its first inhouse games either. Infamous? Killzone? DriveClub? None got it. The reason was that these games didnt make much sense businesswise patching. A lot of third party games didnt either. So I think this is very irrelevant.
As for the reason of the deal being primarily to exclude, is very subjective and depends what the deal is. If the project pre-exists and then the platform owner comes and get the rights to exclude others is one thing. A platform owner coming to a third party to assign a project to them is another. The latter isnt to exclude. Its to develop exclusive content from scratch.
 
All you are doing is trying to change what is happening to make it into a negative. what is the difference between buying Activision/ Blizzard a process that started in January and will not end until at least half way through 2023. and buying 10 game studios over the course of two years What makes one or the other better ? Sony sold double the amount of consoles as MS did last generation. Since the start of this generation Sony has bought about a dozen developers including bungie. How else would you expect MS to compete ? Grow their own studios and only grow their own studios ? There is no way a company can catch up to the market leader that is starting their own studios , making exclusive deals and buying up developers by simply growing internal studios.

You state stuff like Oh COD was historically third party. What does that matter ? Why yet another arbitrary mincing of words ? It was third party because they never launched their own platform. Now they will be owned by a console maker and have their content on that platform. It's no different than something like Insomiac that has made games for all platforms and is now only making them for Sony.

COD is brought up in documents because Sony doesn't want to loose the revenue stream and exclusive perks they get due to their marketing deal with Activision. Why bring up Square just bring up Bungine that Sony already bought. If you want to bring up Square then you can look at the Square titles that sony paid to be exclusive to the playstation platform.


I think you are missing the arguement. MS is saying Look the market leader is growing their own studios , buying up third party content and buying up third party developers. So if the market leader can do this then why can't we ? MS has also stated they hey unlike Sony we are willing to keep ssome of the games on their platform because it makes financal sense. Not just that but it also makes sense that if it isn't exclusive to our platform it might as well be on as many platforms as possible. So that is why they reached out to Valve who only just in the last year got COD back I believe and nintendo who has never had it. COD on the switch would give them a platform with another 120m users. Not only that but cod isn't on any streaming platform. So ms can reach even more that way. This is all already more than anything sony has ever offered.



From my stand point if you want a more competitive market you are going to restrict the market leader. It makes zero sense to restrict the third place party . All that will do is make it harder for them to compete until they leave the market.

I think you even see that with MS's response and them saying hey if you want to do an anti trust case in the gaming market lets do it because we don't have any market share to be a monopoly.


For me I think if this does go through and sony never signs the 10 year agreement it will be extremely hilarious if MS says nope to bad and just puts it on everything else known to man . Cod amico addition !
I tend to agree with @Nesh here. And the issue is it didn't need to be this way. You seem very into this deal to "help underdog MS compete".

But taking away entire publishers from other platforms isn't competing as no one else can replicate such a thing.

You talk about how Sony is "high end console market leader"(which again is such a weird distinction no matter who tries to use it, even Activision blizzard) but they got that way investing into studios continusly and gradually over many decades.

Their failure in the PS3 generation only made them invest even more in building up the devs they worked with and owned into what they are right now. They put in the the work.

Something MS could have been doing and I wanted them to keep doing in the 360 era when they basically dropped Japanese investment into new properties and new IP in general, and started relying on nothing but third parties and 2 or 3 franchises they owned to do all the heavy lifting for years. Among other silly pet ventures like Kinect.

Which leads to the unfortunate end result. MS is in the situation they are in due to their own actions. Nothing anyone else did. Sony just exploited MSs failure to capitalize on their own momentum after 360 leveled the playing field after Sony's previous failure. And the way Sony did that was simply do what they always did better.

The idea that MSs response to that is not to build up their first party studios gradually and take a hard look at what their failure at 343 and coalition really meant, but simply buy up all the publishers in the wider market to cover their losses in a rapid timescale is ridiculous and they should absolutely be called out for that.

Nothing is stopping MS from competing in the games investment space with Sony, except them not wanting to put in the time and the work anymore.

Gamepass as a service is a good first step to competing on their own merits and it in turn forced Sony to come up with a similar subscription service which gives users choice. That is competition.

Buying entire publishers isn't competition, because it doesn't benefit anyone but MS to have this type of monopoly on the gaming industry when they are a platform holder.

You talk about weird hypotheticals like Sony buying up tens of development houses in a year being similar to this, but in the actual reality we live in there is no situation where they could possibly do such a thing, so it's not even a valid comparison to make.

They have only bought around 18 to 20 individual dev studios in almost 30 years (some of which don't exist anymore) whereas MS wants to buy a publisher that by itself owns roughly half the dev teams Sony has bought over all that time which all count toward games being made by a third party that PlayStation and Nintendo get by default due to being independent. Like I said it's not even a real comparison.
 
Bloodborne, being a new IP at the time, I assumed that Sony owned it like they own Demon's Souls. The thought of it coming to the Xbox never crossed my mind.
Final Fantasy 7: Remake and Street Fighter 5 is another story. I know the backstory of Street Fighter 5, so I won't go there, but these series were multiplatform for a time, and you can't blame Xbox owners for expecting that these would make their way to the Xbox eventually. It is not like Sony owns the IP, right?
It's not that Sony making multiplats exclusive is wrong. It is that, in many cases, it is left dangling as to why it is exclusive, leading to some negative narratives about the Xbox and Xbox owners.

Whereas if a platform holder buys an IP, developer, or publisher, the consumer is able to make an informed decision if they can go without the game or not. Reading threads on Era and Neogaf, some people, even at the last E3, still thought it was possible that Final Fantasy 7:Remake would be announced for the Xbox. Some people assumed that Final Fantasy 16 would arrive eventually as well. In this case, I blame MS more for not informing their consumers than anything else. They might not have because they had nothing of that quality to replace it. Still should have let people know, though.
 
Bloodborne, being a new IP at the time, I assumed that Sony owned it like they own Demon's Souls. The thought of it coming to the Xbox never crossed my mind.
Final Fantasy 7: Remake and Street Fighter 5 is another story. I know the backstory of Street Fighter 5, so I won't go there, but these series were multiplatform for a time, and you can't blame Xbox owners for expecting that these would make their way to the Xbox eventually. It is not like Sony owns the IP, right?
It's not that Sony making multiplats exclusive is wrong. It is that, in many cases, it is left dangling as to why it is exclusive, leading to some negative narratives about the Xbox and Xbox owners.

Whereas if a platform holder buys an IP, developer, or publisher, the consumer is able to make an informed decision if they can go without the game or not. Reading threads on Era and Neogaf, some people, even at the last E3, still thought it was possible that Final Fantasy 7:Remake would be announced for the Xbox. Some people assumed that Final Fantasy 16 would arrive eventually as well. In this case, I blame MS more for not informing their consumers than anything else. They might not have because they had nothing of that quality to replace it. Still should have let people know, though.
Perhaps in these situations, Microsoft was trying to see if there was some way these games would appear before writing them off. Microsoft never did perpetuate that they would ever appear either, so their approach was neutral.

I think, at the end of the day, most of us who want the deal to go through, sees one of the world's wealthiest companies, coincidentally the preeminent software developer in the world, finally finds gaming interesting/important to invest heavily in. Better late than never I suppose but they need content to fill the Gamepass beast and they need it to be great to sustain it. Crazy as it sounds, Call of Duty will become an even bigger deal under Microsoft than it was Activision, similar to how they've grown Minecraft. Microsoft is the only company that can create a Flight Simulator in its current incarnation for example. With their melding of technologies together, we can get more of these experiences from them in the future.
 
Bloodborne, being a new IP at the time, I assumed that Sony owned it like they own Demon's Souls. The thought of it coming to the Xbox never crossed my mind.
Final Fantasy 7: Remake and Street Fighter 5 is another story. I know the backstory of Street Fighter 5, so I won't go there, but these series were multiplatform for a time, and you can't blame Xbox owners for expecting that these would make their way to the Xbox eventually. It is not like Sony owns the IP, right?
It's not that Sony making multiplats exclusive is wrong. It is that, in many cases, it is left dangling as to why it is exclusive, leading to some negative narratives about the Xbox and Xbox owners.

Whereas if a platform holder buys an IP, developer, or publisher, the consumer is able to make an informed decision if they can go without the game or not. Reading threads on Era and Neogaf, some people, even at the last E3, still thought it was possible that Final Fantasy 7:Remake would be announced for the Xbox. Some people assumed that Final Fantasy 16 would arrive eventually as well. In this case, I blame MS more for not informing their consumers than anything else. They might not have because they had nothing of that quality to replace it. Still should have let people know, though.
FF 7 remake and SF V are very very few exceptions. SF 6 is heading to the XBOX. So this is one of the phenomenons that demonstrate how crucial is for a platform owner to NOT own a big development studio that has big multiplatform IPs.
Sony doesnt own Capcom, and thus SF (and all of Capcom's franchises) are NOT up to Sony's case by case decision making unlike ABK or Zenimax's games. Thus why SF 6 s arriving to XBOX, but as it seems, no large single player games from these MS acquired studios will be heading to PS.
FF games are still arriving to XBOX in one form of another, with FF7 games like Crisis Core still coming to XBOX. And truth be told, I have no idea what the XBOX complaints are regarding that franchise. When people were glossing around 360, back in the day, FF was expected to be exclusive to Playstation. So obviously they didnt really care about this Playstation asscosciated franchise when they were buying 360's. Of course Square announced FF13 for the 360 since the Playstation 3 was not doing as well as the PS2. But that was situational. And still demonstrates the benefits of having these kind of studios independent. Because if Squaresoft was owned by Sony, no FF game would have been released on the 360 to begin with.
FF7 is assosciated in general with Playstation. And considering the success of the PS4 and how many games like FF7 ended up exclusive to PS4, it is literally nitpicking. There is still a chance the game will eventually come to XBOX hence why the spin offs of FF7 are heading to XBOX.

Also there is a possibility that something else might be involved to the reason why FF7 is exclusive so long. According to wikipedia:

The Remake project began when Final Fantasy producer Shinji Hashimoto broached the subject to Kitase, Nojima, and Nomura. All three were reaching a stage of life that they defined as "that age": all felt that if they waited much longer, they might not be alive to or would be too old to develop a remake, and passing the project on to a new generation did not feel right.[32][33][34] Another reason for developing the remake was that Square Enix was creating a growing library of PlayStation 4 titles, and the team hoped to increase the console's popularity.[34] Nomura was appointed as director much to his own surprise when it was decided to create the remake but he was busy with the making of the video game Kingdom Hearts III at that time.[35]

This might involve non monetary incentives, like the historical value of the game on Playstation and supporting a japanese business like a partnership of having good relations. PS4's success totally provided such environment to support such incentives
 
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FF 7 remake and SF V are very very few exceptions. SF 6 is heading to the XBOX. So this is one of the phenomenons that demonstrate how crucial is for a platform owner to NOT own a big development studio that has big multiplatform IPs.
Sony doesnt own Capcom, and thus SF (and all of Capcom's franchises) are NOT up to Sony's case by case decision making unlike ABK or Zenimax's games. Thus why SF 6 s arriving to XBOX, but as it seems, no large single player games from these MS acquired studios will be heading to PS.
FF games are still arriving to XBOX in one form of another, with FF7 games like Crisis Core still coming to XBOX. And truth be told, I have no idea what the XBOX complaints are regarding that franchise. When people were glossing around 360, back in the day, FF was expected to be exclusive to Playstation. So obviously they didnt really care about this Playstation asscosciated franchise when they were buying 360's. Of course Square announced FF13 for the 360 since the Playstation 3 was not doing as well as the PS2. But that was situational. And still demonstrates the benefits of having these kind of studios independent. Because if Squaresoft was owned by Sony, no FF game would have been released on the 360 to begin with.
FF7 is assosciated in general with Playstation. And considering the success of the PS4 and how many games like FF7 ended up exclusive to PS4, it is literally nitpicking. There is still a chance the game will eventually come to XBOX hence why the spin offs of FF7 are heading to XBOX.

Also there is a possibility that something else might be involved to the reason why FF7 is exclusive so long. According to wikipedia:



This might involve non monetary incentives, like the historical value of the game on Playstation and supporting a japanese business like a partnership of having good relations. PS4's success totally provided such environment to support such incentives
They say that in public, while having some kind of contract on the backend that is not fully disclosed. What you have in quotes sounds similar to what is said about a great deal of 3rd party exclusives. Does not change the fact that, at least with some of them, they have some contract that stops it from going somewhere else. Ownership, on the other hand, is clear-cut most of the time. Other than MLB: The Show, there are no expectations that a franchise owned by Sony, the platform holder, will go to another console.
 
A platform owner coming to a third party to assign a project to them is another. The latter isnt to exclude. Its to develop exclusive content from scratch.
To be exclusive you must exclude. It's impossible to be exclusive without exclusion.
Reading threads on Era and Neogaf, some people, even at the last E3, still thought it was possible that Final Fantasy 7:Remake would be announced for the Xbox. Some people assumed that Final Fantasy 16 would arrive eventually as well. In this case, I blame MS more for not informing their consumers than anything else. They might not have because they had nothing of that quality to replace it. Still should have let people know, though.
It isn't Microsoft's place to comment on the availability of IPs that they don't own. The terms of many contracts are hidden by NDAs, and even if Microsoft representatives knew the inner workings of those contracts (like a time limit to the exclusivity), they wouldn't be fast to disclose them without putting whoever leaked that information at risk. You will find that in the corporate world, most companies will show respect to contracts that they are not part of because they want other companies to respect the contracts that they are in turn not part of. So talking about information that's protected by an NDA would be in bad taste if you want others to not talk about your information that's protected by an NDA.
 
Other than MLB: The Show, there are no expectations that a franchise owned by Sony, the platform holder, will go to another console.
And thats not problem at all unless they bought a big studio that owns multiplatform IPs and that studio as significant presence in the console multiplatform space.
Complaining that Sony's games dont come to XBOX is irrational. It is like complaining why Forza, Halo, Super Mario, Zelda, F-Zero etc are not multiplatform.
 
Nevermind he is using old numbers. I don't think PS+ subscribers is a fair comparison. How many Xbox Live subscribers have yet to convert to Gamepass? I know it is off topic but I think Microsoft should find someway to do the same thing Sony has done when it comes to Xbox Live users. Some tier of Gamepass at the cost of Xbox Live that still makes sense. I don't think GamePass with ads will be enough to make it work.
 
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