MGS2 tearing

Well it seems your agenda (bias) is quite clear now (thanks for coming "out", finally). :oops:

Now if you consider the DC as being the uber easy console to develop for and that many consider it to be more powerful than the PS2, then you would have to consider a Shenmue that is any less than utterly perfect as a complete failure. :p Hmmm... Perhaps those developers should have just passed on the DC and made their game natively on the PC platform? That would surely make their efforts foolproof, right? Let's just open a huge worm grenade and wonder why all GC and Xbox games aren't utterly flawless, given the power of their respective architectures and the ease of development environments? The sheer amount of experience base already established on the PPC 750 and the Pentium CPU architecture should make CPU issues in-game on Xbox and GC utterly nonexistent. ...unless you concede that the 2 CPU's are inadequate in some manner, thus flawed, and thus the respective consoles are inherently flawed... THE HUMANITY!!! There are no worthy, viable consoles on the market now?! The enjoyment we have derived is merely illusion as we have been playing horribly, pitiful shadows of true games.

...and this business of developers having to "fight" the PS2 architecture to extract good results (humorously, I guess you could say if you are unwise enough to "fight" the PS2, you will lose ;) ). Perhaps it is exactly because they are "fighting" it, that they are not getting the results they wish? Trying to program it like its a PC? Why not target its strengths and exploit them to swoon the PS2 architecture? Can't do it? Stick with the PC- the Mos Eisley for computer programmers. :p Leave the "alpha-programmers" and hardware wizards (and that is not meaning the basement nerd who builds their own PC and thinks they're God because of it) to discover and wonder what is possible on the PS2 hardware (not saying they will invariably succeed, but certainly the results will be quite unique).
 
JacksBleedingEyes said:
I think PC-Engine's beef with the PS2 has to do with the fact that it was a fairly big reason for the DC's downfall, among other things.

Is that what you always resort to when you don't have a valid rebuttal? :p

So according to your logic, anyone who praises Shenmue which was developed on older and inferior hardware and took about 2 years, yet complains about MGS2s imperfection, which took 3 years to develop and on superior newer hardware, is angry because the PS2 killed the DC? I love your conspiracy theories man. Why don't you stop making excuses and provide a rebuttal instead of resorting to conspiracy theories.. :rolleyes:

If MGS2 didn't take 3 F*King years I wouldn't be complaining in the first place you MORON!!

Why don't I complain about Shenmue? It didn't take 1/3 of a DECADE!!!

You sound like those kinds of people that can't take a NO for an answer or the sore looser type ;)

People have opinions and it doesn't have to agree with yours...LET IT GO MAN! GET OVER IT!

Metroid Prime is flawless and it didn't take 3 years to develop ;)

As a matter of fact none of the games on GCN or Xbox took 3 years therefore any games on those consoles with graphical flaws can be expected :LOL:
 
Give it some time- people will pick out the shortcomings once the "great game high" has wore off, just like with every "legendarily pristine" game that preceded it.
 
...and this business of developers having to "fight" the PS2 architecture to extract good results (humorously, I guess you could say if you are unwise enough to "fight" the PS2, you will lose ). Perhaps it is exactly because they are "fighting" it, that they are not getting the results they wish?

Hehehe indeed, you won't get very far fighting any system...

As a matter of fact none of the games on GCN or Xbox took 3 years therefore any games on those consoles with graphical flaws can be expected

Halo took around 3 years (probably more) to develop. Metroid had been in development for more than 2 years (not to mention Retro having to shit can a few projects to focus more resorces on Metroid)... And if Metroid is flawless, they why are there people complaining about the control scheme, and offering quite simple remedies? (I personally like the controls myself)

Contrary to what you believe, "difficulty" of the system is rarely a cause for massive development cycles. Quite often it's the content of the game or the complexity of its engine that leads to long development cycles...
 
Like I said already, don't compare small development studios with larger ones...

they why are there people complaining about the control scheme, and offering quite simple remedies? (I personally like the controls myself)

Because controls are subjective?

Tearing isn't subjective, it's graphical glitch ;)

Oh and please show me where it says MP took 3 years to develop? ;)

There's NOTHING in MGS2 that should take 3 years to develop on a developer friendly console like Xbox or GCN...NOTHING. It's MGS1 with some upgrades, it shouldn't have taken that long so the logical conclusion is obvious.
 
There's NOTHING in MGS2 that should take 3 years to develop on a developer friendly console like Xbox or GCN...NOTHING. It's MGS1 with some upgrades, it shouldn't have taken that long so the logical conclusion is obvious.

It probably took 3 years to build up the hype and build up PS2 user base, so I think they are just taking their time. Hype sells you know. :)
 
PS2 hardware sucks!

Some of you might bring up the, oh PS2 is 1999(even this is giving Sony the benefit of the doubt) hardware blah blah bleh blah, but it really is bad crap. 8)

Sony in their quest for raw polygon processing power, decided to ignore image quality, which includes texturing and pixel effects(1999 GF1 and Matrox G400 had that, to a certain extent, so did DC.)
Of course, once you apply more texture layers, PS2 polygon rates drop drastically. :(

I wont talk technical, since i aint no programmer, but most PS2 games i played are bad looking imagewise, even on a small 20" TV with component inputs. Cannot imagine how they will look on larger screens :(
That is what really matters, actual gaming "benchmarks".

Jaggies, low-res washed out look, textures shimmering, blurry simplistic textures, resolution drops, image breakups are the usual complaints, which from my experience, IS VERY TRUE!

PS3 CELL might sound promising to some, but i fear for Sony since Nvidia have proven that they are superb with graphics. Unless Sony gets ATI or Bitboys or some other specialized graphics hardware group, they might get badly ass-raped again. :cry:
 
Like I said already, don't compare small development studios with larger ones

OT but, I dont think KCET used 100 of 1000 people to develop MGS2.
We should compare respective development teams rather than Konami vs Bungie.
 
the point here is,

did they actually spent 3 years ON THE GRAPHICS ENGINE!?!?


if u really think that they used a whole 3 years to give birth to the engine then something's wrong here..... :rolleyes:

what about the whole script, cut scenes construption (from a cinematographical point of view), voices, art design and the oh-my-god physics engine... without forgetting the AI engine...

and since when this board has become a trolling ground??
 
Like I said already, don't compare small development studios with larger ones...

Indeed I'm all to familiar with how large Konami is (my girlfriend used to work there). However that doesn't automatically mean the entire company was producing MGS2, there were other games in development ya'know... :rolleyes: And it's not like Retro didn't have a sizeable staff on Metroid Prime (not to mention the assitance of NCL)...

Because controls are subjective?

Fair enough. I still had occasional camera issues (heh, what game doesn't?) in corners while in Morph Ball mode, and troubles when enemies got stuck behind or in obstacles (the most annoying case was in the Magmoor Caverns and having the little Triclops dudes get stuck in the openings you needed to pass).

There's also been a few complaints about the game locking up on elevators (solution is to not mess around with the control stick on them), however I haven't encountered that problem... (I even tried to induce it when I heard about it)

Of course I'm not going to sit here and blame every little glitch (and minor ones at that) like that on the system.

Oh and please show me where it says MP took 3 years to develop?

I said over 2 years, and I only say this because I knew about it before Spaceworld 2000...

There's NOTHING in MGS2 that should take 3 years to develop on a developer friendly console like Xbox or GCN...NOTHING. It's MGS1 with some upgrades, it shouldn't have taken that long so the logical conclusion is obvious.

Oh really? And what's to keep a few critical personal from getting sick or in an accident? Or quitting or going to some other developer? Or how about some poor sap accidentally checking in the wrong code and losing weeks worth of work? Or some minor little change engine change that causes the months of art reworking? How about some personel working on more than one title at a time? What about publisher/producer input that causes additional time to be spent reworking a few things? What about losing your publishing contract and having to find another publisher? What about if your music composer takes a little maternity leave (or the baby comes earlier than expected)? What about delays introduced because some critical part of the developer documentation hasn't been translated yet? How about when a really cool game comes out and half the staff spends a little too much time on that instead of work (hey, we all like to think we're professionals but hey we're still human)? What about nasty acts of nature (e.g. like being delayed a week while your building is being inspected because of an earthquake)? How about your tool guys leaving? How about time updating your tools to a new platform? How about having to fix them? Don't even get me started on fixing bugs...

And I'm barely even bringing up *real* development problems... There's a hell of a lot more problems that arise that can cause delays, dev cycle time estimates to get rather conservative, etc. than just something as nebulous a system being "hard to program"...
 
PS2 hardware sucks, DC hardware is over rated, but i still do not see serious MGS2 tearing. :cry:
 
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