Metal Gear Solid 4 post:#1067

[Betanumerical]

DSR Sniper is a one shot kill on body as well as head...it also shoots through 2-3 people if lined up correctly

I find the full auto sniper rifle better (M14EBR) I also like the SVD(it was in MGS:3 )

I have found so far that the DSR-1 is great in MGS4 but useless in MGO.

 

[patsu]

I remember in Metal Gear AC!D (The first one), the Mosin Nagant was an armor-piercing anti-personnel sniper rifle with an extremely strong feedback.

In MGS4, I tried it on the Gekkos but nothing happened

Spoiler

I noticed that the grenade launcher and RPG will bounce off Gekko too. The only effective weapons (sometimes one-hit kill) against them are the Railgun and the Javelin. Is this accurate ? Where is their brain ? Sometimes I can kill a Gekko with just one shot, often I need to deal 3-5 hits.

 

[MJP]

In MGS4, I tried it on the Gekkos but nothing happened

Spoiler

You can use the grenade launcher and RPG on Gekkos. Use the grenade launcher to shoot them in the legs right around the weak spot (highlighted red in the Solid Eye) until they get sorta knocked down, then shoot the other leg. When it falls over completely, use the RPG or Javelin to hit it right in it's exposed "neck"

 

[Crayon]

The whole game is based around scripted sequences, scripted walking paths for the AI and respawning, the only thing the AI are good at is running towards the place where alarms go off. In firefights the AI is decent at best (they manage to come towards you, but they dont know how to flank you or take cover effectively), they are very stationary once they found you and you got all the time in the world to kill them if you want to.

AI doesn't neccessarily have to act like people to be complex or good.


Playing on The Boss Exreme, I was having a problem I didn't have so much before. I would be at a great distance from a soldier, moving slowly with a strong (50+) cammo index and he would "huh?" notice me from all that distance. Then I would stop moving, raising my cammo index and expecting him to not see anything and carry on. Instead, he would stand there for several seconds, them sight me and sound an alarm.

It took me using nvg thru a sniper scope to finally figure out what was going on....
The soldier saw "something" at a great distance.
He turned to inspect it, but saw nothing.
SO HE GRABBED HIS BINOCULARS
and re-inspected the rooftop a half mile away.
He found me and sounded the alarm.

That's not going to win a chess game but that's fairly complex behavior. Consider that you can have a dozen of these things running around, behaving according to what they can see and hear. Then remember they are put into level designs that are never less than very good.

In the scenario I was describing, my being caught by this particular fellow sent the scenario going in a direction I had never considered before. Impressive since I've attempted the thing 50 frickin times.

What makes the AI good (to me) is the way the enemies can react to what the player does, and to what each other do. INTERACTION (not simulation) is what they do and they do it, on the whole, with a consistancy that facilitates interaction and encourages experimentation with them.

The visual fidelity just isn't there for me to understand why all the areas are tiny, and we gotta load so much, even with repeated installs.

Ostepop, I'm not going to lie. I think you are being overly hard on MGS4 because you don't like Playstation games. It's okay, I still like you. =D I'm sure I'm the only one who feels this way. But the relevance here is that you are playing the game with blinders on. You aren't fooling me and you are cheating yourself because this is the finest** product to come out of this craft in a long long time. Try to enjoy it half as much as you are trying to dislike it and you will thank me.

**And yes, readers I think this is, the finest game I have personally played. Objectivly, I can't think of any other game that has this much polish, detail and richness. Graphics, sound, artwork all superlative. Gameplay, level design, and control all delicatly bound together like hands clasped in interlocking fingers. At very least, one must recognize that this game is top shelf, even if they played better ai last gen or the visual fidelity just isn't there for them.

 

[patsu]

MJP: Oh that's right.

Spoiler

I forgot that shooting its legs using RPG work too. But in general, Javelin and Railgun are the only 2 weapons that can kill a Gekko (sometimes) on a single, direct shot. RPG will require a few hits.

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

My god I cannot wait to play this game!! I'm going to dedicate a full weekend to it, with nothing else on the menu so I have no distractions and can take every single pixel in. I bought the game yesterday and I'm itching to play it but I want to make sure nothing can distract me from it's awesomeness during my play through.

 

[deepbrown]

AI doesn't neccessarily have to act like people to be complex or good.


Playing on The Boss Exreme, I was having a problem I didn't have so much before. I would be at a great distance from a soldier, moving slowly with a strong (50+) cammo index and he would "huh?" notice me from all that distance. Then I would stop moving, raising my cammo index and expecting him to not see anything and carry on. Instead, he would stand there for several seconds, them sight me and sound an alarm.

It took me using nvg thru a sniper scope to finally figure out what was going on....
The soldier saw "something" at a great distance.
He turned to inspect it, but saw nothing.
SO HE GRABBED HIS BINOCULARS
and re-inspected the rooftop a half mile away.
He found me and sounded the alarm.

That's not going to win a chess game but that's fairly complex behavior. Consider that you can have a dozen of these things running around, behaving according to what they can see and hear. Then remember they are put into level designs that are never less than very good.

In the scenario I was describing, my being caught by this particular fellow sent the scenario going in a direction I had never considered before. Impressive since I've attempted the thing 50 frickin times.

What makes the AI good (to me) is the way the enemies can react to what the player does, and to what each other do. INTERACTION (not simulation) is what they do and they do it, on the whole, with a consistancy that facilitates interaction and encourages experimentation with them.




Ostepop, I'm not going to lie. I think you are being overly hard on MGS4 because you don't like Playstation games. It's okay, I still like you. =D I'm sure I'm the only one who feels this way. But the relevance here is that you are playing the game with blinders on. You aren't fooling me and you are cheating yourself because this is the finest** product to come out of this craft in a long long time. Try to enjoy it half as much as you are trying to dislike it and you will thank me.

**And yes, readers I think this is, the finest game I have personally played. Objectivly, I can't think of any other game that has this much polish, detail and richness. Graphics, sound, artwork all superlative. Gameplay, level design, and control all delicatly bound together like hands clasped in interlocking fingers. At very least, one must recognize that this game is top shelf, even if they played better ai last gen or the visual fidelity just isn't there for them.

Aye the AI has surprised me a number of times. I'd like to think I'm more clever than them...but they can still surprise me in their movements, and their reactions to each other.

At the moment I like shooting them with laughter bullets and watching if they kill each other....mwah haha

 

[Crayon]

Anyone else find the digital camera?


CAN YOU FIND THE CRAYON IN THIS PICTURE?

 

[rounin]

Anyone else find the digital camera?


CAN YOU FIND THE CRAYON IN THIS PICTURE?

What are you talking about

 

[Crayon]

It was a joke.
I'm Crayon. And I'm standing right in the middle of the picture ... (playing as Snake), so there's no real need to find me.

EVERYBODY STOP LOOKING FOR THE CRAYON NOW.

Here's another one. Here.... you'll see me about to get wasted because I was fumbling around with the camera. =)

 

[RobertR1]

My new 80GB MGS4 bundle should be here next week. What difficulty should I start out on?

I'm really into FPS and beat CoD4 on Hardened, Halo3 on Heroic, Rainbow Six 1/2 on Realistic, Gears on Insane. Due to my lack of experience with stealth games, I'll play this like a good ole shooter so what would you guys recommend?

 

[phat]

Aah, the camera. It's very useful for the boss encounters...

Spoiler

They'll even strike poses for you!

 

[Crayon]

My new 80GB MGS4 bundle should be here next week. What difficulty should I start out on?

I'm really into FPS and beat CoD4 on Hardened, Halo3 on Heroic, Rainbow Six 1/2 on Realistic, Gears on Insane. Due to my lack of experience with stealth games, I'll play this like a good ole shooter so what would you guys recommend?

My vote goes to Big Boss Hard,which is the hardest one available at the outset.

The dowside: Places where you are forced to fight (boss fights, generally) can get very difficult, and frustrating because there is nothing to do but fight!

The upside: The rest of the game comes into it's own by forcing you try different approaches. I'm not sucha great shooter myself, so there where parts that I tried to blast thru, but ultimatly had to take the stealth route. Had the game been set on an easier level, there are a lot of stages where my initial stealth attempt (I almost always start off that way!) having failed would be the only one because I could have shot my way thru that extra 100 feet to the exit. With the extra difficulty, the stakes up when getting caught. The level design was so thoughtful that I almost never minded having to try over and over. And there are several little suprises I would have never found if I hadn't tried a new approach out of desperation. =)

I think the beauty of a well-designed game (and this game is on top) is that it is malleable in the hands of the player, and lets them play whatever way comes naturally to them. It can be fun without being challenging because the player is truly "playing". ie:discovering experimenting, learning and interacting. Then (in a well-designed game!) as the challenge rises, the game demands a mastery of the skills that the player practiced alot... just playing with them. Because they where fun in the first place.


Also to keep in mind thru the game: There is no punishment for dying or losing here, especially on the first playthru. Just enjoy the shit out of it.

 

[RobertR1]

Can I adjust the difficult in between the Acts or is it Ninja Gaiden style, where you live (or often die!) by your choice throught that whole gameplay?

 

[patsu]

Some people are turned off by Big Boss Hard. It can get tedious and frustrating later. Why not start with Solid Normal first ? If you like the first round, chances are that you'll replay it once more. I don't think you can switch difficulty mid-way.

The story is long winded; you should not expect too much out of it. In fact, I forgot who I was fighting for and why, about halfway into the game. By the time I reached the final Act, I didn't care who's who anymore. It's great fun nonetheless.

EDIT: Ahem.. http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008...d-4-guns-of-the-patriots-database-on-the-way/

The MGS4 Database is a free, downloadable interactive application that contains the official knowledge base of everything that is Metal Gear, reaching all the way back to the very beginning of the franchise. Including complete storylines, character profiles, relationship diagrams, and much more! The MGS4 database is a great way to catch up for someone new to Metal Gear, as well as a useful resource for any veteran of the series, with complete official details on every aspect of the intricate Metal gear lore.

The MGS4 Database also contains a special feature – if you want to make use of the database, but have not yet fully played through MGS4 yet and are worried about spoilers – all MGS4 spoilers are “blacked out” until you’ve beaten MGS4. Give it a try!

RobertR1, I have a feeling you'll hate the story. I'm on my second playthrough. I'll see you in MGO someday.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Once I got the tranquiliser gun I was back in MGS3 mode !Also, sleep Gas mines are super fun. First check out the patrol route of a gaurd, sneak behind him , place the SG mine, run back and hide and watch the fun unfold! B) Well, it burst out gas when someone comes close, and off to sleep he goes!

I am in

Spoiler

Shadow Moses

right now, just the start of Act 4. I like how I keep finding music files! such a neat addition to the game. I want all of them!

Spoiler

I miss the EVA I knew in MGS3 Everyone loses their innocence and love for life as they get old in MGS, or in real life too !Well, it was fitting that Snake (Big Boss) and Eva died together as, I think, Eva is the only love Snake had in life ! Heroes are always alone(How come Spiderman got married )

I won't be able to play untill Sunday again! Work , my friends, one of inevitable evils of life !

 

[betan]

Disagree about the graphics. Hate to bring up professional reviews like IGN and Gamespot, but they appear to agree (as do others in this forum) that it's incredibly detailed and breathtaking.

It has its fair share of wow moments and graphics are definitely up there, but again no streaming, some out of place flat ground textures (especially bad if you are an Inch Worm), lighting baked textures, simple shaders, lack of LoD system, presetup Octocamo texturing mean it could have been much better.

Story is as poor as ever? I think i should probably steer clear of this...but the story whips every game that's come out this generation...bar none.

I mostly agree, but that doesn't tell much, does it?

The emotion, the depth, the relation to present day politics and world events, as well as typing together complex happenings in the previous games with style - creating surprises and twists you'll not find in other games...or even films.

I give you complexity, depth and relevance but those are not enough (not even necessary) to make a good story. In MGS and some other Japanese games there are those common problems (not really spoiler but better safe than sorry) :

Spoiler

Every piece of information presented by the game may be inaccurate, contradictory or resolution may be illogical. Relatedly secondary characters seemingly switch sides frequently for no good reason. And there are those "I know it but I won't tell you now, come back later" or "we are actually in the same team, I was only torturing you for fun", or "to advance you need to kill your mother who actually wants you to advance but still will fight you to the death" moments. It is difficult to care about the plot or characters after a point.

So yes, I don't like the story, thank god there is presentation which is what makes MGS shines. That said, old snake is great character.

And yes I also loved that moment! I knew...no I hoped...that would happen...and I'm sure Kojima wanted us to think it would happen...but the pay off was so great (combined with the music). I truly love that scene...and wish I could just play it over and over again.

Yep, I count that scene as part of the possibly greatest

Spoiler

boss battle

ever, despite player not doing much, since the switches between gameplay and "cutscene" are so smooth afterwards.

Still surprised no-one agrees with me about the loading during

Spoiler

chase scenes

...it spoiled them for me.

Another case for streaming and lod system, but I cannot say it spoiled anything for me, it was a little disconnected minigame, no immersion there. However for those who played MGS3, the fact that that part is there should be enough to appreciate Kojima.

Anyway, in spite of all of its flows, MGS4 is the first masterpiece I have ever played. In a way, it is depressingly sad. :|

Can I adjust the difficult in between the Acts

I don't think so, and I too recommend normal (NA/PAL default). It was a little easy time to time but possibly best to get used to and experiment different styles. Also I doubt simply gunning on hard would be fun, I have a feeling it would be more like gunning and running (if you survive) rather than the other way around.

 

[Crayon]

Also I doubt simply gunning on hard would be fun, I have a feeling it would be more like gunning and running (if you survive) rather than the other way around.

Hey! Who said "simply gunning"?

I had to do everything in my power to get past most of the areas!!!

My second playthru I did Solid Normal and I found that If I really cared to, I could usually win an extended shootout without proper planning. Which, in a way... is actually more free form gameplay.

Buuut my argument for the harder difficulty is that when your plans fall thru you are that much less likely to make it out alive. And I've found that in this game, like any well designed game, the satisfaction goes up with the demand of meeting the challenge.

Plus, Robert has gone out of his way to describe his gaming ability and tbh he sounds alot more adept than myself.

My first playthru -on Hard, remember!- took 50 hours. Ouch. THat was hard. HUNDRES of resarts. I even got the Chicken emblem. =)

 

[deepbrown]

It has its fair share of wow moments and graphics are definitely up there, but again no streaming, some out of place flat ground textures (especially bad if you are an Inch Worm), lighting baked textures, simple shaders, lack of LoD system, presetup Octocamo texturing mean it could have been much better.
I mostly agree, but that doesn't tell much, does it?

I give you complexity, depth and relevance but those are not enough (not even necessary) to make a good story. In MGS and some other Japanese games there are those common problems (not really spoiler but better safe than sorry) :

Spoiler

Every piece of information presented by the game may be inaccurate, contradictory or resolution may be illogical. Relatedly secondary characters seemingly switch sides frequently for no good reason. And there are those "I know it but I won't tell you now, come back later" or "we are actually in the same team, I was only torturing you for fun", or "to advance you need to kill your mother who actually wants you to advance but still will fight you to the death" moments. It is difficult to care about the plot or characters after a point.

So yes, I don't like the story, thank god there is presentation which is what makes MGS shines. That said, old snake is great character.

My favorite part about the MGS games is the complexity of every character...and it steps away from the common tradition found in games and even films where characters are innately good, or innately evil. Noone is evil in MGS, each boss could be your friend or foe, and each has a backstory to explain their actions. If at first you don't understand their actions, read into their backstory.

My favorite characters are Eva (good or bad?), Ocelot (good or bad?) and Big Boss/Naked Snake (good or bad?) - playing as the latter in MGS3 really adds a lot of depth to MGS4. It'd be very hard to gain that kind of feeling from the player, without playing at least MGS1 and MGS3 beforehand.

 

[Simon F]

Moderator note: One comment by Darkon, was, frankly, a little immature and has been removed along with the responses which, though far more civilised , became irrelevant after the initial removal.