*merge/rename* The Importance of an H.D.D. (e.g. caches, streaming etc)

[FutureCTO]

I'm almost scared to reply to this only to be hit with a 4000 word reply But here goes. You don't need larger textures on PS3 to get a similar visual result to the 360 version. The same size textures will work just fine.

Oi,
If it helps, that was only 888 words. :smile:

If what you say is true, then that great news.
My current impressions haven't seen this yet and I hope to see a developer say it is true.

Even though Xenus is not DirectX 10 complient,
DX10 shaders will typically out eyecandy DX9 shaders.
So here is hoping placing more load on the SPU will free up RSX to better enhance the output.

 

[FutureCTO]

FutureCTO :

Nobody uses openGL ES on ps3.Well ,nobody should ,at least.

Thank, God?
I was really unimpressed by the graphical specifications I saw when visiting Kronos Group.
It had me afraid they had hack and slashed the capabilities of the RSX graphics core.

OH WOW! BREAKING NEWS! What a difference a year makes!
Check it out = http://www.khronos.org/

This site is totalling going into my open all in tabs folder. :smile:

 

[one]

From a dev of the Bourne Conspiracy
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=183810

"Developers certainly benefit [from a hard drive]," he went on to explain, adding: "if you have a hard drive, the whole game loads faster. Obviously you'll be facing a short install time, but the developer benefits from it and you definitely benefit from it as a player.

 

[woundingchaney]

I look forward to learning more about this issue.
Could you name and link, some developers other than Capcom who have released games mandating an install to HDD?

Hot Shots Golf 5 (SCEA)
Resistance: Fall of Man (Insomniac)
Call of Duty 3 (Treyarch/Pi Studios) - not sure
Call of Duty 4 (Infanty Ward)
Oblivion (Bethesda)
MLB '07: The Show (SCE Studios San Diego/SCEA)

These are only ones I found quickly on the net. Im fairly sure the list is reasonably accurate. Im thinking Skate, Warhawk (disc verison), Assassin's Creed, GT5 also require an install as well as various other titles I have played on my PS3.

 

[Arwin]

Ratchet requires a fairly large install as well, I believe. Though a big difference with Capcom is that it doesn't take nearly as long.

Isn't that one of CAPCOM's real problems?: 5GB shouldn't take 20 minutes to copy, unless you're doing it very inefficiently.

 

[djskribbles]

Hot Shots Golf 5 (SCEA)
Resistance: Fall of Man (Insomniac)
Call of Duty 3 (Treyarch/Pi Studios) - not sure
Call of Duty 4 (Infanty Ward)
Oblivion (Bethesda)
MLB '07: The Show (SCE Studios San Diego/SCEA)

These are only ones I found quickly on the net. Im fairly sure the list is reasonably accurate. Im thinking Skate, Warhawk (disc verison), Assassin's Creed, GT5 also require an install as well as various other titles I have played on my PS3.

resistance installs ~400MB, CoD4 doesn't install anything, Oblivion installs ~4GB (i think), HSG installs ~5GB (i think) and i think CoD3 installs a few hundred MB. to add to that list, Heavenly Sword installs 2GB, UT3 installs ~2-3GB. there are probably others, but i believe we've listed all the games that install more than 2GB.

 

[sevanig]

20 mins to copy 5 gigs of data seems long...
But I assume its unpacking it into some sort of data structure?

 

[AntShaw]

Hot Shots Golf 5 (SCEA)
Resistance: Fall of Man (Insomniac)
Call of Duty 3 (Treyarch/Pi Studios) - not sure
Call of Duty 4 (Infanty Ward)
Oblivion (Bethesda)
MLB '07: The Show (SCE Studios San Diego/SCEA)

These are only ones I found quickly on the net. Im fairly sure the list is reasonably accurate. Im thinking Skate, Warhawk (disc verison), Assassin's Creed, GT5 also require an install as well as various other titles I have played on my PS3.

Add Lost:Via Domus to this list. 3764mb (7 min) mandatory install.

 

[Arwin]

20 mins to copy 5 gigs of data seems long...
But I assume its unpacking it into some sort of data structure?

Yes, I was saying this too in another thread. I suspect they are doing something inefficient there.

 

[Neb]

Sorting the data or perhaps encrypting it? Well something more than just copying it becouse 20min is a longtime for 5GB. I mean installing a game that fills up ~5GB of the disc-media takes around 5min (PC).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How do uninstalls work? Are some of these installs transparent, or do they all ask for so many GB's of space and give the option to remove the files?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why do they need encrypt it when the hard-drive file system is proprietary? And why not encrypt it on the disc and copy it over in encrypted format? Unpacking makes no sense as there's room to spare on the BRD so they can preserve the file structure - packing ought to make a more efficient installer! Worst case is the files are spread all over the disc and the head's chasing around copying files willy-nilly, which if true would smack of HDD installs being a last-minute idea.

 

[AntShaw]

Your game data, and game save data are separate. You can delete the game data without losing your save, but will be forced to re-install upon trying to play the game again.

With the Lost install, it doesn't tell you how much space it was going to take up. Only gave a time, which was 7 minutes. Not sure what kind of error you get if you don't have enough free space.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is there clear labelling on the boxes?

 

[cthellis42]

...though that seems to run at odds with other statements from Capcom that they were wanting to do an install on the 360 as well and were denied, which would make it seem that they were keeping it in mind to begin with.

If that's the case, it could be that they were aiming at the lowest common denominator and needed to conserve space for DVD installation purposes (having to keep in mind considerations both for the 360 and PC), and they didn't bother to rework things when the situation changed, or for any platform specifically. (On that note, I suppose we MIGHT find out more when the PC version releases.)

Regardless, it seems like they were simply unwilling to take extra steps and potentially delay the release further, while they could instead inconvenience your PS3.

 

[cthellis42]

Most games don't tell you how much space they're going to take up, nor do they give "uninstallation" directions in the game itself--you just have to know they're in your Game Data folder so you can delete it yourself. (Most people aren't likely to figure this out, so it would be good to reorganize the way it's laid out, or at least put an "uninstaller" of sorts into prominent mention on the XMB.)

I know some game boxes are clearly labelled on the matter, but I can't vouch for many/all of them.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Ratchet requires a fairly large install as well, I believe.

Ratchet installs 417 MB.

 

[Blade47167]

Oblivion's install was very non-intrusive. It installs as you play the game so you really never know that it has taken place.

 

[djskribbles]

Oblivion's install was very non-intrusive. It installs as you play the game so you really never know that it has taken place.

UT3 does the same thing (if you don't do the optional "full" install that is).

 

[PARANOiA]

The original Xbox installs/cache did the same thing. This is the best model IMO, having all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages. IIRC it automatically allowed for three games to have a cache at any one time, and did the copying on the fly (eg, during the intro movies or whatnot). Once you insert your fourth game, it overwrites the old cache, so if you went back to game #1, it would take longer to load that if you played it before moving on to game #4. Very clever and sensible, though obviously the caches were <5gb.

I think we all agree that HDD's are useful and a good thing, it's just a shame when it goes beyond to be (to some of us) an obtrusive problem. It's a shame more 360 games don't take advantage of this - they are certainly encouraged to use a HDD if present.