Manhunt 2

Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by Natoma, May 26, 2007.

  1. pc999

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    The only way I can see one agreeing with that is if the govern consider that game a health risk for the pedophiles.

    But why would stop in games, why not take out all references to those thrills or any other form of "extreme" violence in any form of art, would you like that, do you know how many masterpieces you would losse? If not why only games do affect people.

    Responsability needs to come from people or by POSITIVE education, plus that argument that "People do become desensitized to things if they are exposed to it frequently" it is not true" at least talking about personal experience, they do become desensitized to more of the same but in a given medium, not for real life, in fact I do belife tha this kind of things can help society see what violence is so they dont do as much of it and help deal with violent instincts that (all) people have.
     
  2. Simon F

    Simon F Tea maker
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    +10 rep if I could give it.
     
  3. DJ12

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    Law and Order has also been pulled from the shelves.

    It contained CCTV footage of Jamie Bulger being kidnapped and used his likeness on posters in the game.

    I think this really is in poor taste and a line needs to be drawn.

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=166296

    Quite why it's taken 4 years for this to happen I'll never know.

    I heard it on the radio this morning and thought the game had only just been released.
     
  4. tongue_of_colicab

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    Oke so rockstar just have to say well this game isnt about killing, its about sneaking you're way out of the game and that its alright? because apparently it doesnt matter that its possible if the game isnt about that.

    Its just bollocks. Some jerk from the Dutch government now also wants to ban the game, were is this going? we blame countries as China for not being free while my (our) governments arnt doing anything else than telling us what is best for us. Smoking is bad, drinking is bad, dont speed, cant play this game. As Eddie murphy would say: Get the fuck out of here :D
     
  5. Nightz

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    Explain yourself, pointless in what way?

    You said its unacceptable "to tell the public what they are and aren't allowed to buy". When in fact there wouldn't be such bodies if it wasn't in the public interest. You have to draw a line somewhere. Rockstar knew the rules very well.

    "The Board will attempt to deal with films, videos or DVDs which are unacceptable at any category through intervention such as making cuts or requiring the addition of warning captions. If this is not possible or not acceptable to the distributor, works may be refused classification altogether. ‘Taboo’ themes are acceptable, but not if their treatment is likely to encourage harm to viewers or, through their behaviour, to society. The following are of particular concern:

    * graphic rape or torture
    * sadistic violence or terrorisation
    * illegal and glamorised drug use
    * material likely to incite racial hatred or violence
    * portrayals of children in a sexualised or abusive context
    * sex accompanied by non-consensual pain, injury or humiliation
    * material likely to be found obscene by the courts."
     
    #45 Nightz, Jun 20, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2007
  6. Nightz

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    Horror movie Ads are not a problem. The problem is not mere violence but the context in which and content of which.
     
  7. Subtlesnake

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    The point is that in the cases he outlined it's considered acceptable for the government to override the individual's autonomy, for the good of society as a whole. Indeed, that's the entire basis of law in the first place - to provide a framework of rules to maximise social wellbeing.

    In some cases, breaking the law won't result in harm to society, making the 'criminal' morally justified in some sense. From his perspective, the state is bearing down on him for no justifiable reason. However, if the rule was not in place we'd all be worse off, so we have to accept these problem cases. It's the same situation with censorship. Products are censored not because it's judged that the individual doesn't have the right to decide for himself, or because he's seen as automatically morally/emotionally/intellectually inferior to some authority, but because giving him the ability to choose carries significant costs of its own; social costs that occur when individuals make the wrong choices.

    Such censorship is normally out of the question, because we value individual freedom so much, and because in practice giving government these powers opens up the potential for abuse - the slippery slope. There's also the fact that the costs/benefits of censorship are hard to determine, especially when you consider 'the erosion of belief in civil liberties', i.e the situation where individuals stop questioning the governments' right to control their life.

    However as mentioned previously, in certain cases, as with drugs and pedophillic material, it's judged that 'the slippery slope' isn't a factor and that the social cost of the choices individuals are making is so large, that the government must intervene - at the expense of civil liberty. So this idyllic society where individual freedoms are always respected simply doesn't exist. And nor does taking away some freedoms automatically doom us to languish in some Orwellian dystopia. In reality the issues are far more complex.

    When considering the BBFC's decision, we have to recognise that the BBFC has always had the power to ban games! And the last time they banned a title was 10 years ago. Furthermore, they operate according to strict guidelines and must be able to effectively justify their decisions if they're to retain their credibility. So I simply don't buy that their powers represent a 'dangerous precedent', or are open to abuse. The precedent already exists and has existed for some time.

    The question then becomes 'were the BBFC right?'. Are there large costs to releasing Manhunt? Are these costs worth overriding individual liberty? Well, none of has have even played Manhunt 2, so I don't see how that could be judged. And any decision will based on a subjective assessment of probabilities/moral values.

    So it's all very unclear. However I hope in this post I've demonstrated that things are nowhere near as black and white as: 'stopping someone from buying a product they want is always an unacceptable violation of their liberties'. In reality, liberties are very fuzzy indeed.
     
  8. tongue_of_colicab

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    But how much does this game damage the social wellbeing? non I think. Instead of banning games they should make sure people not old enough to buy the game cant buy the game.
     
  9. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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    I'm pretty sure you can find even more experts to testify that young persons being able to see such images (commercials like that, movies like that, heck, even violence on the news) is harmful in quite the same way, so there still is quite a large matter of hypocritical application of concern/laws/penalties/etc.

    What I'm saying, however, is that laws are not needed in this case. Business and community pressures will force them to make changes, or they'll be satisfied to sell to a smaller and smaller niche. If the review boards rate it "as adult as adult can be" and that drives away 99% of the retailers who'd stock the game, not to mention the stations, sites, and print media who would carry the advertisements (and even if they did, it wouldn't be for long, due to community outcry), not to mention being presented as a giant warning flag to parents...

    Remember, the matter we are inveighing against is the straight-up banning of the game in certain countries. Wholesale. For all ages.
     
  10. Gubbi

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    Banning the game is curbing the ideas it presents. That's censorship, plain and simple.

    The last game that was banned was Carmageddon. Anyone who played that game will agree that the ban was a complete joke.

    Manhunt 2 might be in incredible poor taste, but why not let the market decide that?

    Cheers
     
  11. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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    Egads, I forgot about Carmageddon... >_<
     
  12. DeadlyNinja

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    Ah, good memories of Carmageddon. I played that game in high school and I thought it was freaking hilarious. I just can't take violence in video games seriously. No matter how "violent" people seen to think, I always thought it looked so cheesy and silly that you can't take it seriously.
     
  13. NERO

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    I see that both versions are banned but I wonder how much (if any) this has to do with the Wii(eurisms in simulating a kill. Either way I don't believe a government should be able to do this. The right treatment is coming up with a rating system (do they have one in the UK btw?) and tag it mature. The only problem is if there is not a rating system in place.
     
  14. cthellis42

    cthellis42 Hoopy Frood
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  15. junkheap

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    I disagree but also agree with it being banned. I mean AO is good enough rating to keep it out of the hands of many kids, but really it will not keep it out of the hands of all, and not to mention like like anything else, alcohol, drugs, smokes etc, if they want it they will find it.

    I personally find the game disturbing. I see no joy in playin a game like this especially with the WII mote. And honeslty i think that people that would play soemthing liek this have problems. But that is my narrow minded view. And comparing it to WW2 games isnt really fair. You arent walking up to these individuals and killing them in the way you are going about in manhunt. Shit, isnt the whole purpose of this game to kill someone or people(i dont know).

    I dont think banning it would be the right way of going about things, cuz really it will cause more issues. Im sure if they make a game called sexhunt or something like that id have no problems with it(unless of course if u have to use the WIIMOTE which then id feel all weird again).. but then i find sex less harmfull than violence and i dont want someone telling me what i can or cannot do as it is my choice.

    dunno if i made myself clear, and sorry if i offended anyone, didnt mean to
     
  16. SugarCoat

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    A rating of AO would keep it out of most game retail outlets as well, including the big one, Gamestop, not to mention the big family shop outlets like Bestbuys and Walmarts. In terms of sales it would be like cutting yourself off at the neck, let alone the legs. All you would really have is being infamous like the origonal San Andreas versions, which again were all yanked and replaced with edited versions to bring the ESRB rating from AO back down to M. Realistically sales would be terrible due to the rating and nobody carrying the game.
     
  17. chroniceyestrain

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  18. joker454

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    "Hey Joe, we need you to have testicle physics coded for next Friday". Wow, talk about a thankless programming task! Back in my teens I might have thought the excessive violence was cool. Being somewhat older now, I can't help but wonder if this is a bit much. I hate censorship as much as the next guy, but pairing this kind of excess on the Wii of all machines is just asking to be made an example of.
     
  19. StefanS

    StefanS meandering Velosoph
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    Which is kind of strange b/c according to the Kotaku link cthellis42 posted earlier, GTA: San Andreas apparently also received an AO rating. So someone has got to be wrong here. :???:
     
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