Manhunt 2

Which is kind of strange b/c according to the Kotaku link cthellis42 posted earlier, GTA: San Andreas apparently also received an AO rating. So someone has got to be wrong here. :???:

It stated with a M rating, once hot coffee was released it was given a AO and then once it was edited it was once again given a M rating.
 
I find it ridiculous that Rockstar is shocked with the AO rating. When I read the previous, I assumed that would be the rating. It seemed obvious to me. Then again, when you're that involved with a product, it is a bit blinding I guess.
 
San Andreas was only re-rated AO due to the Hot Coffee flap, at which point those copies were immediately stopped, sales-wise, sent back, and they worked out a NON-Hot Coffee-including version that was back to being M again.

The list was there to basically show just how pointless and ineffectual AO-rated titles are, merely by their being AO.
 
But why would stop in games, why not take out all references to those thrills or any other form of "extreme" violence in any form of art, would you like that, do you know how many masterpieces you would losse?

Probably not a lot. Once you get to the point of tearing out testicles with pliers you've left the "masterpiece" zone and entered the "titillating" zone. I'm somewhat agnostic about banning media (although I think pornography could be banned pretty easily by making our prostitution laws just a bit broader), mainly because a decadent society will demand its government unban whatever has been forbidden, and a less decadent society will censor itself by internal forces. That's what's happening regardless of GB banning it or not. Nintendo and Sony refuse to license it, doubtlessly because they feel having AO games in their library will tarnish their reputation, therefore the game is effectively censored in the USA without any gov't intervention.
 
So it's all very unclear. However I hope in this post I've demonstrated that things are nowhere near as black and white as: 'stopping someone from buying a product they want is always an unacceptable violation of their liberties'. In reality, liberties are very fuzzy indeed.

I think the real question from the beginning is 'should that kind of precedent exist in a society that's very principles revolve around the free enterprise of ideas?'

Saying that a form of media would qualify as a kind of "public nuisance," which I think is what your post was trying to express in regards to government censorship, is tricky business. Trying to prove that any elements of media are harmful to society in general, is almost, if not entirely, impossible. In that right, its slippery slope and specious nature could be considered unconstitutional in the case of most countries in the UK.

CAN a piece of media inspire consistent and re-occuring episodes of civil unrest? I'm not particularly sure if the media in question could inspire that all on its own, but anyone who'd try to prove such a thing wouldn't get very far in the endeavor.

Even so however, in this context things need to be looked at on a case by case basis. The question is, "does anyone who is objective, and devoid the kind of watchdog eyes assigned to parents and censors, truly believe that this game has the ability to invoke civil dystopia?" Many many people assumed such a thing of the first game and they turned out to be wrong or just totally lacking in any sort of tangible evidence; has this situation been looked at fairly and objectively?

When I read the statements from the BBFC, they seemed more concerned about the contents of the game being a form of entertainment rather than a precipitator of civil unrest. They furthermore characterize the game as being too "bleak." This sends up warning signs in regards to the intent of the censors since such broad notions of inappropriate material could be policed with the same intensity in other various books and movies going in and out of the UK (plus the certain states where the game was banned). This verdict can be fought.

Take-Two, for example, should petition Sony on the matter of whether or not this particular AO would be acceptable to advocate running on their system. I find that the AO status and the knee-jerk reaction it causes retailers would pretty much offer the best scenario for keeping it out of kids' hands cnsidering all the red tape involved with mass mail-orders. The game has earned quite a name for itself, so I imagine the pre-order would be humongous if this drags on long enough--Giving the companies precedent of profit.

I, personally, am most angered by this matter due to the fact that I will have to play a butchered version of the previously developed art. I am a strong believer of the freedom that games are supposed to afford a developer in defining their vision(s). This hussle maneuver pulled by the government in the UK and the companies in tandem is so infuriating, that I'm just about ready to give up on consoles altogether.

I can't imagine how Rockstar feels. Their work being rejected must be extremely harsh for morale.
 
I'm pretty sure they're fine with it, because even though they may "compromise the art" in the end, when they DO get it back down to Mature, they will have attracted temendous interest, what with the unbelievable amounts of free press marketing they're getting right now.
 
I don't mean on a public interest level as much as I do a principle one.

I, personally, would feel a little violated if I was forced to downgrade my work.
 
According to 1up, Sony and Nintendo policies forbid the licensing of AO rated games.

That's new for me... O.k., here's the deal: No Manhunt 2 - No PS3!!!

I don't want to spend 600 € for a console and the producer tells me what I have to play with.

You've just lost a consumer, Sony!
 
Manhunt2 was never coming to ps3 to begin with ;) Anyway, I dont think not allowing AO is a new rule for nintendo and sony. Wouldnt be suprised if they got it since the rating system was introduced.
 
That's new for me... O.k., here's the deal: No Manhunt 2 - No PS3!!!

I don't want to spend 600 € for a console and the producer tells me what I have to play with.

You've just lost a consumer, Sony!
Doubt they ever had you as a customer.

As someone stated above, MS also have the same rule, but seeing as Manhunt 2 is not scheduled for release for xbox or xbox 360 they haven't been mentioned in relation to this issue.
 
Manhunt2 was never coming to ps3 to begin with...

We're talking about licensing of AO rated games not about Manhunt 2 for PS2, PS3, PSP, Wii...

Oh, DJ12. Have a look at my public profile, visit may homepage and convince yourself if Sony lost a consumer or not.

I'm so pissed off... I can tell you.
 
Probably not a lot. Once you get to the point of tearing out testicles with pliers you've left the "masterpiece" zone and entered the "titillating" zone.

From the top of my head, you would lost a few Greek tragedy's (in fact many ancient texts some considered master pieces or fundamental to our knowledge make very precise descriptions of torture and the like). Or even "todays" FOUCAULT. Or Francis Bacon. There is a lot of things in the history of art that can considered as violent as this game (even more if you adapt the times and mediums).

I'm somewhat agnostic about banning media (although I think pornography could be banned pretty easily by making our prostitution laws just a bit broader), mainly because a decadent society will demand its government unban whatever has been forbidden, and a less decadent society will censor itself by internal forces. That's what's happening regardless of GB banning it or not. Nintendo and Sony refuse to license it, doubtlessly because they feel having AO games in their library will tarnish their reputation, therefore the game is effectively censored in the USA without any gov't intervention.

With that I am OK, that means (or it is just a indication) that people didnt want to see violence and they are in their full right of that as long as if someone wants to see he can see it.
 
Well, I'm a little disappointed when I read this was exclusively on PS2 and Wii. Hopefully, like the first one, they'll end up releasing it on PC. And to be frank, I'd rather they banned it outright then censor it down to the videogame equivilant of bottled water, because the very foundation of this videogame is violence. Take away that and you have virtually nothing.
 
Like wtf? you're the one talking about manhunt2 and ps3.

Come on, guys: No Manhunt 2 for the PS2 - no purchase of PS3!

(already own a PS2, I can't threaten not to buy one)

Sony said the target group of the PS3 are male users between 20 and 40. And now I must read they don't allow games Ao rated, this is 18+... At this point I desided to close my console diary. Maybe I'll open it again at a cost at 100 € for the PS3 and 20 € for the kiddy games, maybe.
 
The point is that in the cases he outlined it's considered acceptable for the government to override the individual's autonomy, for the good of society as a whole. Indeed, that's the entire basis of law in the first place - to provide a framework of rules to maximise social wellbeing.

The comment was pointless not because I didn't understand it but because I don't think it makes any sense. It compares two totally different things on the basis that because one is ok to ban that means there can be no argument with banning the other. Ok ets allow the goverment to ban blue cars... They have nothing to do with drugs or games but hey if the government can ban one thing then it must mean that its fine for them to ban anything..
 
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