Making the Saturn display through a VGA box

[Nesh]

Hey guys a friend of mine owns a Saturn which he modded in order to be able to display in both 50 and 60ghz modes as well as run both NTSC and PAL games but he has a problem when he tries to display it in his PC monitor via a VGA box.

He asked me to post it here in case some of you can help.

He is a big fun of the Saturn and has a huge collection on it. Recently he managed to install a 50/60 hz switch and the Region switch on his EU Saturn. He had spent days to do this so you can imagine his disappointment when things didnt work as well as anticipated.

Everything works fine on his TV, but he wants to connect the Saturn on the PC monitor and thats when the problems begin. He used a vga box to connect the Saturn on the pc monitor,and when the Saturn is in 60hz mode he gets black and white, no colors at all. He bought another vga after this, hoping it will work but now when in 60 hz he gets strange colors (it’s more like it uses 3 colors: purple,pink,green).

In 50hz the games run like they should on both vga boxes. But he needs to play them in 60HZ since games run faster with no borders.

The strange thing is that both the vga boxes support pal/ntsc signals and 50-60 hz modes. The monitor supports these as well. Even with an ntsc to pal converter he gets black and white colors on both VGA boxes. Can anyone help out? What could be the problem?

p.s:He can only connect the rca (red,yellow,white) cable on his vga boxes,there is no RGB input if that makes any difference.

p.s2: A similar issue he gets with MK on the DC that supports NTSC

p.s3: He suspects the power supply of the Saturn to cause it but he isnt sure

 

[Endymion]

What "VGA box" is he using? Any time you get B&W instead of a colour image, your device is dealing with a broadcast signal that it does not expect. This is NOT possible if it were dealing with an RGB signal, this is the only proper way to upscale the resolution to VGA mode. In the other instance, with strange colours, it sounds like the device might be attempting to upscale Y-Pb-Pr, and that won't work properly either.

You need to be absolutely certain that the "VGA box" is culling a 15KHz RGB signal from the Saturn.

 

[Nesh]

He asked me to post these images for reference

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Vigil22/P10100081.jpg?t=1235506471

http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Vigil22/?action=view&current=50hzdisplay.jpg

http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Vigil22/?action=view&current=60hzdisplay.jpg

First shows his VGA box models

The second shows how the colors should have been displayed normally and the last how it displays at 60hz,

It is strange because both VGA boxes are claim to support 60hz modes

Can you explain how he can check the culling?

Your help will be very much appreciated

 

[Nesh]

Btw he brought the VGA boxes over my home to test them on my HDTV and with a PSX instead of a Saturn and the problem remained on 60HZ games so the issue isnt with the Saturn.

Is there a good VGA box you'd recommend for him?

 

[Endymion]

I usually have a harder time making this clear to folks in NTSC areas, but since you are in Europe this should be a much easier go.

PAL and NTSC are colourburst signals, not RGB. What is typically termed as RGB for video games is no different from VGA--it separates each colour in its own line, but operates at a TV level of resolution. SCART, as I presume you know, is just a plug type. It can carry Composite or S-video, but game enthusiasts often use it for RGB. SCART is pretty much the only standard for TV level RGB at 15KHz, or it is the closest thing to it, even considering that NTSC televisions typically do not have SCART of any kind.

Now, back to your friend's situation. All you really need to know in order to make sure that he is getting proper colour and the proper signal that he wants, is to make absolutely certain that his cable is an RGB cable. The Saturn has pins for Composite, others for S-Video, and others for RGB. So, are you certain that the VGA box(es) that you are using accept SCART RGB? This is a very important point. A lot of "VGA boxes" actually do not accept RGB (whether through a SCART plug or anything else), but rather they accept a Composite or an S-Video signal, and then upscale that to a VGA level of resolution. But of course, Composite and S-Video are RGB combined into another signal, so separating this again does not regain quality, what you wind up with on your screen usually looks dulled and/or blurry, and it may also be susceptible to any other issues inherent in NTSC & PAL modes, since you are dealing with a PAL TV. Anyway, I can't see what the inputs are, but it does look like he is using S-video with the white VGA box there. That's not going to be ideal.

The best VGA box, bar none, is the X-RGB series, but unfortunately these are no longer made as far as I know. They cost around 100USD when they were new (give or take) which is expensive, but when you find the typical VGA box for only $20-30, you know that you are holding something that only works with Composite or S-Video. The X-RGB line would work with those signals also, but had the ability to upscale RGB and avoid the colour issue. It was also a very fast unit, I don't want to say latency free, but I can say that whatever delta it might have had was completely unnoticeable not only by me, but by anyone else that I'd ever heard testimonial from about it. Beyond getting a good box, you'll want to make absolutely certain that your cables are RGB cables, and again this is usually SCART, especially when you're dealing with the older consoles.

There are other workarounds that you can use more recently, and there are several newer boxes that I've seen lately, but a lot of them seem to be geared towards converting Y-Pb-Pr to VGA and upscaling that. In order to use this with the Saturn, you would need a way to convert RGB to component first, this would be a clunky solution but I've seen tell of folks who have had it working well.

The best site I know that deals with this stuff is GamesX, they have a very active forum here and its users are geared towards the older consoles like the Saturn.

 

[Endymion]

Rather peculiar, I wrote out a long and detailed reply that seems to have vanished into the aether.

 

[AlNom]

Rather peculiar, I wrote out a long and detailed reply that seems to have vanished into the aether.

Into Purgatory, actually. New posters will have their posts moderated before showing up.

Oh and welcome to the forums.

 

[Nesh]

Thanks for the reply Endymion. Welcome to the forums.

Your effort is very much appreciated.

I shall forward it to my friend.