LAIR Thread - * Rules: post #469

[Shifty Geezer]

So you've broken down every single site's reviews and compared them to the gamerankings average.

You wouldn't have to do that. You'd only need check a few games and see how close IGN's was to the final average. Perusing GameRankings, quite often IGN are within +/- 2% of the average. And then sometimes they're out by 10%. (Or you just find and click the statistics link, if you happen to know there is one )

Though IMO it's silly to second guess the scores when you only have to wait a while. Why try to predict the average score from one or two reviews? Why not wait for GameRankings and Metacritic to turn in the averages?

As it is, Metacritic has HS at 83% and GameRankings has it at 85%. Early days yet, but it's not the 'HS is no good' score that some (notably a friend of mine!) had been jumping to conclusions with. And scores aren't much use. While looking at GR scores to see how IGN fairs in picking the average score, you come across some interesting figures. Driver, the original PS game score 97% with IGN, the average is 88%, and Gamespot gave it 77%. Depending who you follow, it's a truly excellent game, a good game, or an okay game. As it was, it gave us a huge amount of fun. Lots of mates gathered around the TV taking turns to do missions, and helping each other avoid the fuzz. Not many games are good a spectator experience. I'd give it 10/10 for enjoyment, despite weird bugs, graphical glitches, and on occasions terminal difficulty.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Maybe the IGN reviewer was just really crap at playing LAIR...

The score could always be self referencial e.g. He gave himself 4.9 on average for his ability.

 

[Ike Turner]

OR maybe it's finally time, after months and months and 57 pages of arguing that this game sucks?

 

[rbushner]

Sound 8.0?
I wonder where you could find a better soundtrack in 7.1 Audio in the current generation? Please correct me if I am wrong (But I know Iam not)

While the sound may be deserving of a higher rating, rating it solely on 7.1 is similiar to rating graphics solely on something being 1080p. Sound should be rated on how good/immersive the effects and music are.

 

[Darkon]

I can understand him not liking the controls etc but Visuals and Audio getting such a mediocre score ? come on that’s ridicules.

While the sound may be deserving of a higher rating, rating it solely on 7.1 is similiar to rating graphics solely on something being 1080p. Sound should be rated on how good/immersive the effects and music are.

Lairs score is among the best easily

 

[Tap In]

I can understand him not liking the controls etc but Visuals and Audio getting such a mediocre score ? come on that’s ridicules.

here are his actual comments on that

Sure, the FMVs are graphically impressive and so are parts of the gameplay, but there are lots of times I found myself rolling my eyes at what I was seeing on the screen -- I'm talking about tearing, square waves, a chugging framerate and water effects that look like sand.

and here is what 1up said...

But for all of its confusing camera issues and misbehaving controls, Lair still manages to wow you. You'll start many levels in the midst of skirmishes that show off the power of your PlayStation 3 (even though Factor 5 says the game is only using about half the system's horsepower). Armies hold siege on volcanic plains in spectacular 1080p while trebuchets hurl dozens of fireballs into fortresses. You'll often cover a lot of territory in a single mission, bombing detailed cities and assisting your ground forces over sprawling volcanic terrain that looks good, if not overly earthtoned (sometimes I felt like I was battling above the Land of Dairy Queen). The symphonic score compliments the epic scope of the battle, making Lair a complete audiovisual package that's actually overstuffed with cool extras, too -- including commentary and nine "making of" videos. And if your rumpus room rivals Bill Gates', you'll be glad to know Lair supports 7.1 HDMI receivers.
Ultimately, Lair is a game that you'll want for its eye-popping experience rather than its gameplay.

 

[Darkon]

here are his actual comments on that

Lair has framerate issues and tearing on occasion, square waves i have yet to see, don't know what he means with water effects looking like sand. (waves ? Splashes ? looked fine to me )

 

[patsu]

In my half-opinion (because it's half done), I think they should have made this into a free roaming game, and have some very obvious objective counter/indicators to guide the player.

The linear, movie-like but abrupt progression at the beginning of the game probably killed a lot of enthusiasm (Okay, people who dislike this sort of things, don't join a startup company ).


EDIT: At this point, I will point the figure at the game design department. The graphics given so much activities is impressive.

Way to correct myself.

I have just finished level 5 (Yay ! after 2 failures). The game is indeed non-linear. What happened is that the huge battle is disrupted by about 5 cutscenes alerting the player more enemies (rhinos, tauros, assorted dragons) have joined the battlefield. What I did was to attend to them in a linear fashion.

That's why I lost.

I finally won by "juggling" between the enemies, focusing on the most damaging ones but not forgetting the human soldiers since they decide the outcome. At any one point, I have 2-3 different types of enemies on the loose. I also didn't notice the catapults the first 2 rounds because the narration and cutscenes did not mention them. It is actually pretty chaotic and immersive (my mind was totally engrossed in it for a good 30-45 minutes and then I'm late for work).

Sure, the FMVs are graphically impressive and so are parts of the gameplay, but there are lots of times I found myself rolling my eyes at what I was seeing on the screen -- I'm talking about tearing, square waves, a chugging framerate and water effects that look like sand.

These artifacts are there usually for an instance because the dragon fly so fast, and some only in selected spots (e.g., at the bottom of the waterfall). The entire bridge battle is very well done, with some flaws here and there.

The problem is in such a busy, huge world, the quality of the visual also varies. Most of it is good though.

 

[patsu]

Lair has framerate issues and tearing on occasion, square waves i have yet to see, don't know what he means with water effects looking like sand. (waves ? Splashes ? looked fine to me )

You can find some polygons at the bottom of the waterfall if you wander close enough, but it won't matter one bit. Most of the time, you'll be _busy_ fighting. I still feel pretty good about this game (Definitely above 5... about 7, not exceeding it, but I have not finished the game yet).

EDIT:
It is a little like playing inside a Warcraft RTS campaign.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I can understand him not liking the controls etc but Visuals and Audio getting such a mediocre score ? come on that’s ridicules.

The visuals are quite bad, actually... Lack of art direction and rushed assets and levels...

 

[wco81]

So is it better than Panzer Dragoon?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

OR maybe it's finally time, after months and months and 57 pages of arguing that this game sucks?

Yeah, I kinda wonder why this is not an option... Large budgets and self-hype won't guarantee an exceptional game, not even a good one.

 

[patsu]

It clearly sucked for some reviewers. I was able to overcome all the issues they mentioned (fighting with controls, confusing objectives, ...), some are non-issues and some more difficult. Some gamers also reported similar experiences as me. I enjoyed it thus far. It would be an evening well spent, but it's not highly addictive or brilliantly fun per se. I look forward to the sea serpents soon.

So is it better than Panzer Dragoon?

Never played that before

 

[Faeton73]

According to gamefront.de the official playstation magazine has given it a 6. Heavenly Sword receives a 7 and Warhawk a 9.

Lair (PS3, Sony): 6
Heavenly Sword (PS3, Sony): 7
Stuntman Ignition (PS3, THQ): 7
Stranglehold (PS3, Midway): 8
Singstar (PS3, Sony): 9
Warhawk (PS3, Sony): 9
Colin McRae Dirt (PS3, Codemasters): 8
NASCAR 08 (PS3, EA): 4
All-Pro Football 2k8 (PS3, 2K Sports): 7
NCAA Football 08 (PS3, Electronic Arts): 8
Gauntlet II (PS3 PSN, Sony): 2
Crazy Taxi Fare Wars (PSP, Sega): 7
Worms Open Warfare 2 (PSP, THQ): 8
Tony Hawks Project 8 (PSP, Activision): 7
PQ2 Practical Intelligence Quotient (PSP, D3): 6
Monster Hunter Freedom 2 (PSP, Capcom): 7
Final Armada (PSP, Virgin): 2
Singstar 90s(PS2, Sony): 7
Guitar Hero Rocks the 80s (PS2, RedOctane): 7
Obscure II (PS2, Playlogic): 6
Premier Manager 08 (PS2, Zoo Publishing): 3

 

[patsu]

IMHO, any number between 5.5 and 7.5 is reasonable depending on what you hate/like. I personally won't give it over 7, but very close to 7 (It's immersive). Here're some other user reviews and tips (that I missed myself):

* http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7634905&postcount=1270
(Agree with him, but I hate throwing people because the camera will follow the fallen, which is distracting).

* http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7634427&postcount=1267

* http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7634872&postcount=1269
(This one is more assertive. Lock-on can be a problem if you're too far away and something else unseen or just arrived is nearer)

Also the game actually plays better in replay because I know what to expect. The rest is my execution

 

[fearsomepirate]

I don't know what it is. I am not sure if it's intended delay. Or perhaps dragons don't like crashing into each other mid-flight ?

Maybe gesture controls for games are harder to program well than people have been giving them credit for.

 

[RobertR1]

Choose your destiny

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/lmff/review.png

 

[Darkon]

The visuals are quite bad, actually... Lack of art direction and rushed assets and levels...

I wouldn't say that levels where rushed but a good art director would have done Lair wonders despite that I still find the game visually impressive.

You can find some polygons at the bottom of the waterfall if you wander close enough, but it won't matter one bit. Most of the time, you'll be _busy_ fighting. I still feel pretty good about this game (Definitely above 5... about 7, not exceeding it, but I have not finished the game yet).

Lair reminds me of Yakuza: flawed but fun

Where are you now in the game ?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Choose your destiny

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/lmff/review.png

Surprisingly accurate. You know, I think in all future games discussion threads I'll just lock them and post that up (perhaps editing out a little of the language). It'd save a lot of time and effort for posters and amount to the same thing anyway

 

[patsu]

Maybe gesture controls for games are harder to program well than people have been giving them credit for.

Possible. In general, sudden horizontal movement (for ramming dragons) seems to be a problem in Lair. The "180 degree turn" gesture works better.

Lair reminds me of Yakuza: flawed but fun

Perhaps. I can see why some people call out the "unpredictable" dragon controls. It operates well, but is constrainted/affected by the high speed dragon flight. e.g., Some attributed the large turning radius to SIXAXIS (especially after they missed a target). But this is really because of the speed. It also tells me they didn't use the "180 degree turn" gesture to achieve a tight turnaround.

Where are you now in the game ?

After the bridge battle. I think the sea serpents are next