LAIR Thread - * Rules: post #469

the flamethrower effect is well within the game still. they just happened to show the new fireball effects in that trailer thats all.

 

Yeah. looks that way. The footage I've seen has all been fireballs, but an IGN pic shows flame-throwing. Doesn't look much improved on the original effect either

 

http://www.chud.com/index.php?type=mastercontrol&id=10297

The first picture shows fire "spraying"

Looks good to me, but then I don't care that it might be "easy" to do, I only care what it looks like.

 

I disagee, the new 'air' fireball effect looks greatly improved from previous versions. Doesn't have that obvious 'shrinking 2d sprite to give the allusion that it is travelling away from you' effect.

The ground based fire looks quite awesome.

The game looks amazing. However, I truly believe that this is one game, with the amount of detail that is being thrown around, that I need to see on my TV, in a direct-feed format to truly appreciate.

 

Yes, the fireball is improved. I was saying the flame-thrower didn't look improved. This is jarring because of the 'trailer' they showed, with the most awesome fire effect ever seen in a game. If they hadn't have shown such strong visuals, showing ordinary visuals (still inferior to some last-gen effects though) wouldn't be so disappointing.

 

I plan to do a few low-flying swoops over the home city when I get it. I would also like to perch on top of the multi-level city, perhaps at the edge of the water fall, and look out into the ocean. It would be great if Factor 5 allows me to pause the game and pan/rotate the screen.

I hope they pull through. Would love to see them recreate the atmosphere of grand scale medieval war movies... if not Lair I, then Lair II [Cue the war cries of engaging armies in vast open field -- like in the movie, Hero]

 

Honestly, now that we know about quite a few very good looking PS3 games, I just can't comprehend what people like in this one. The new videos even show things like repetitively tiled ground textures - but lighting, shaders and effects are still totally underwhelming compared to practically every other A-category game already out there, not to mention the unreleased ones. I just can't understand this...

 

Because I'm buying a game instead of a poster/video ? e.g., Genji 2 looks very good, but I will never buy that game due to critical camera and playability issues.

While some parts of Lair may appear stiff and coarse compared to Uncharted and Heavenly Sword, its vast and vibrant game world intrigues me. There seems to be quite a few things to do too. e.g., Free-flying, dragon brawl, worm hunt, night assault, etc. (It's like playing one soldier in a large RTS game).

Not sure if the final game will be fun, but the premise interests me so far.

 

The games scope impresses me. Let alone the quality of the textures when far away and up close...we haven't seen a direct feed of this game for a very long time (if at all) and if you watch the dev walkthroughs you can see how impressive the game really is. Some of the city lighting is breath taking also.

Let alone it's going to have a locked framerate with so much going on on screen...and so vast. I find that incredible. Factor 5 are known for getting some amazing things out of consoles and I expect them to carry on this trend.

It also looks stunning...as long as you're not watching off-screen videos, or heaven forbid IGN's videos.

Also the story really intrigues me, as well as the promise of different environments. Oh and with music from John Debney, this game is going to be an epic experience.

Not sold on gameplay yet, I'll give you that.

 

I haven't been much impressed with this game until now. The new videos look really good IMO.

And Laa-Yosh, what we're you expecting really from a game with that kind of scope? Maybe people are actually smart enough to take that into account when talking about it. Somehow I doubt you'd make that comment if it was a 360 game.

 

http://www.jeux-france.com/news20293_lair-plus-d-images.html

More images there.

I just want them to fix the transition issues between the different actions because it made everything confusing and jerky.

 

That's right. Many people forget about the scope of the game. I think it's exciting one can play in such a vast game world with so many activities. Kudos to Factor 5 who dared to venture into this unknown realm. They should include a "Making of ..." video to talk about the challenges, set-backs and advances they faced/made. I like the "Making of Lair Music" during the last round of trailers.

 

Heavenly Sword has large scope. Rachet has large scope. even Halo3 has large scope. So it's already not an excuse - and fixing the lighting, shaders, and making better textures isn't a question of engine technology anyway.

 

Flawed argument, Xbox 360 is supposedly less powerful so expectations should be lower

 

I don't know...

How big are the above game worlds and enemies compared to Lair ? None of the example you gave is a flying + walking game (in every level) too. Do they have undulating waters all over the map ? How far can they see at any point in time ? I would have thought most of them designed the game carefully to avoid handling too many things at once. I think Factor 5 is trying to push this limit in Lair.

According to the developers, the battles happen like an RTS... so they'll need to tally up the losses/wins, and also allocate AI dynamically when the enemies get close enough. I remember they also built a 7.1 sound subsystem in Lair.

 

You're kidding me right? That picture high above the city in the jeux-france shots, where you should be able to fly all the way down to an individual building is not a similar kind of scope to what Heavenly Sword has, and the latter has much more controlled environments. Ratchet may come close in some respects, but we haven't seen much like it just yet - we don't know if all the things that we see in that game can actually be reached, as there is no free-flight. And fixing the lighting, well, which of the other games had realtime global illumination again with fluidly transitioning day-night cycles? I haven't heard about them for any of the PS3 games at least, but maybe I missed something. In the context of this engine, I don't think it's a simple matter of 'fixing' the lighting and shaders. You're the expert, but I'd even question your 'making better textures' as a feasible option at this point, when they have to conform to these requirements.

I wish they'd hire you, so you'd get a chance to actually prove you could 'fix' their game.

 

Oh god. you did NOT use R&C as an example

You complain about the lighting, but R&C's is worse than some PS2 games. There's no self-shadowing, not projected shadows, not even a change in shading when he goes from outside to inside. Textures aren't particulary high res either (and that's not taking into account the completely unshaded grass). For what they've shown, it doesn't come even close to Lair in scope. Thousands of enemies on screen, 10km + wide levels, unified lighting system, 1080p, etc...

Seriously, it even seems personal. Did you apply for a job with F5 and they rejected you or something?

 

Maybe you should look at this, this puts in perpective just how big LAIR is in scale.




And also, by what are saying do you think Rockstar should fix GTA4s Textures, shaders and lighting because Heavenly Sowrd, R&C and Halo 3 look better and they have a big scale aswel?

 

one thing i really love is the midair dragon duel. the fire has greatly improved and now seems to simulate that HDR effect. the dragon's mouth turns pinkish red around it's fire gland which was really nice effect. the wings gets this SSS effect after the fire and litghning. and mix in the rain drops we hav a rather nice looking scene here. and Laa-yosh, the texture is pretty sharp too on the mountain.

 

All games feature view distances up to several kilometers. Halo has some large battleships, HS will have armies of thousands of soldiers. Halo will hav eflying for sure. The water in Lair is a joke compared to Halo...

But the point is that bullet points and technology in itself cannot be used as an excuse for bad looking graphics (and boring gameplay).

It seems very likely that Factor 5 has gotten to excited and ambitious about their technical achievments and locked themselves into a corner where they can't create assets at a competitive quality due to time and other constraints.