Kutaragi on delay and on sony

[zifnab]

You may not be wrong on this. Probably the majority is aimed towards younger audience. But even as such the remaining anime/manga is still big and gain lots of interest.

Yes, I agree there are adults in Japan who do follow these sort of things. Though I brought up the otaku example to state that it has limits. Regardless of whatever interest there might be amongst adults in Japan however, I don’t ever expect anything like it from adults in the west.

The point is that various of these themes gain lots of interest outdside Japan as well, that dont necessarilly have to be presented through anime or manga.

Which themes are you referring to? If it’s something very general like eastern philosophy then certainly you’ll find its influence in much of western media. But this isn’t my issue with games like FF and MGS. It’s their badly written storyline and poor execution.

Either way I think thats irrelevant. The result is what matters. Which is, despite the philosophical theme of the movie it grew popular.

I think it’s very relevant. I haven’t lost interest a lot of Japanese games because of their underlying themes. Imo they’re not all that different from the western ones. It’s as I mentioned the uninteresting and poorly executed storylines - I don’t attribute this to a movie like The Matrix.

I'd say it's fair to put Final Fantasy in that basket. But the Matrix (the movie) had the same type of weakly tied together religious refference and pseudo-philosophical sprinkles and it was plenty entertaining. It really gets a 16 year olds gears turning and for the rest of us it's honest good fun. No worse than a serial fantasy novel or whatever.

As I’ve mentioned in my replies to Nesh it's not the underlying theme that’s the issue, it’s the story, the execution, the acting, etc.

I think MGS is another case entirely. Kojima has taken strides in interactive storytelling. The digital puppet shows of MGS are pretty heavy. The ott drama is not accident, but executed. Most importantly he is developing narratives in a way that you could not do with a non-interactive media. How many players hated Raiden? Alot. How many probably didn't grasp the fact that Raiden was an allegory for themselves? I'd be just as many. It's good stuff. Better than any movie I saw last year

See above.

Hint to developers, if you take your storyline seriously, make sure you hired a good writer, and keep the sappy drama low.

I think that sums it up pretty well.

 

[aselto]

I have to agree with zifnab - I love Japanese games, but when they are more focused on gameplay than storyline. I played through Jet Set Radio, Resident Evil 4 or Ninja Gaiden countless times, but I can't stand Metal Gear SOlid series or Japanese RPGs. I have to say I love Shenmue, though.

 

[Nesh]

I finished MGS2 more than 4 times

Yes, I agree there are adults in Japan who do follow these sort of things. Though I brought up the otaku example to state that it has limits. Regardless of whatever interest there might be amongst adults in Japan however, I don’t ever expect anything like it from adults in the west.


Which themes are you referring to? If it’s something very general like eastern philosophy then certainly you’ll find its influence in much of western media. But this isn’t my issue with games like FF and MGS. It’s their badly written storyline and poor execution.


I think it’s very relevant. I haven’t lost interest a lot of Japanese games because of their underlying themes. Imo they’re not all that different from the western ones. It’s as I mentioned the uninteresting and poorly executed storylines - I don’t attribute this to a movie like The Matrix.


As I’ve mentioned in my replies to Nesh it's not the underlying theme that’s the issue, it’s the story, the execution, the acting, etc.


See above.


I think that sums it up pretty well.

Personally I loved better the execution in Japanese games. A lot lot more. I cant think of a western game(or any other form of media) that amazed me by the execution of the story just as much. Its rarer for me
Actually I cant remember a western game in which I even cared about the story

 

[avaya]

Personally I loved better the execution in Japanese games. A lot lot more. I cant think of a western game(or any other form of media) that amazed me by the execution of the story just as much. Its rarer for me
Actually I cant remember a western game in which I even cared about the story

Same here, with Command & Conquer (excluding Generals) being the exception. Many Western games have been very soulless for me, they felt like the story was only secondary to the game itself, not given equal weight, just thrown in at the last minute or altogether ignored from inception. Halo however was somewhat intriguing for me, some of the lines in ads for it were amazing, but the fact that I pretty much detest the FPS genre put me off of it.

I don't care much for RPG's/JRPG's either except Final Fantasy, like many people in the West the first time I was introduced to the series and genre was FFVII. The only RPG's I have ever played outside FF and enjoyed were Zelda Ocarina of Time on the 64 and Kingdom Hearts.

For me, when deep into FFVII, VIII and X, the experience was just as good if not better than a thoroughly engrossing film/book. The MGS series also has the same effect.

 

[Bobbler]

IAWTP.

My games library used to be story driven, which means it consists of many japaneses titles(rpgs), on the other hand games with save the princess story goes down the pecking order. These days after my age goes past the 20 mark, i realized most games story are badly written and there is really no deeper meaning behind the convoluted plot twists. I look to gameplay with a simple story any time, explains why i no longer play japanese rpgs.

Hint to developers, if you take your storyline seriously, make sure you hired a good writer, and keep the sappy drama low.

Odd, I'm the exact opposite. As I've gotten older, I've sort of stopped caring about gameplay (as it's all mostly the same old shit anyways -- I'm not really entertained by pure gameplay, there has to be something compelling me to keep playing -- doing stuff just to do stuff doesn't interest me) and started caring more about games with at least some sort of compellingly told story (albeit, my standards are lower for a game than a book/movie in this regard). Western games are almost entirely borefests to me (barring a few here and there), because of their huge focus on gameplay over everything else -- I'd take an MGS game over a Splinter Cell game any day of the week (they aren't exactly the same genre, but overlap a lot). There are a few exceptions (katamari, loco roco, smash bros and other fighting games, etc.), but overall I'd take a mediocre but well told story (that's interesting enough) over good gameplay. Without a story to lead me along I have trouble putting more than an hour into it. It's probably the same reason I sort of lost interest in Nintendo (I still like them, but they doesn't excite me like they used to) -- most of their games are storyless or very gameplay focused (Mario may be fun, but it doesn't exactly make me want to keep playing -- play an hour and I feel like I've seen the game... same with most of the other games they make now days).

MGS3 was probably my favorite game of the PS2 generation by quite a bit (MGS2 is up there too).

 

[Powderkeg]

I finished MGS2 more than 4 times



Personally I loved better the execution in Japanese games. A lot lot more. I cant think of a western game(or any other form of media) that amazed me by the execution of the story just as much. Its rarer for me
Actually I cant remember a western game in which I even cared about the story

Ever played either of the System Shock games?

They are about a decade ahead of everything else at the time, western or eastern in origin.Their story telling and atmosphere has only recently been matched by other games, but that's after nearly 10 years of other developers playing catch-up.

 

[Bobbler]

Ever played either of the System Shock games?

They are about a decade ahead of everything else at the time, western or eastern in origin.Their story telling and atmosphere has only recently been matched by other games, but that's after nearly 10 years of other developers playing catch-up.

That reminds me... which one is better? SS2? And is it still easy to get ahold of? I need to finally get a hold of one and play it.

I'm kind of excited for BioShock because of all the clamoring for the previous SS games.

 

[Nesh]

Ever played either of the System Shock games?

They are about a decade ahead of everything else at the time, western or eastern in origin.Their story telling and atmosphere has only recently been matched by other games, but that's after nearly 10 years of other developers playing catch-up.

There re always exceptions. But I cant comment on it since I never playied it.

 

[zifnab]

Personally I loved better the execution in Japanese games. A lot lot more. I cant think of a western game(or any other form of media) that amazed me by the execution of the story just as much. Its rarer for me
Actually I cant remember a western game in which I even cared about the story

I'm not looking for a ground breaking story in a game to be honest. I think books and movies do a better a job, and I mainly want a story that brings me into a games universe. One that's preferably interesting, although I don't find this always essential. I for example didn't think the story segments in Splinter Cell were interesting at all, but they were sufficient to make my character more beliveable. MGS2 on the otherhand immediatly started off with these excessivley dramatic and unrealistic conversations that had joined forces with a large dose of poor voice acting and my interest went downhill form there. For games like FF this is of course even more damaging and it's a large part of what's made many Japanese releases unappealing to me.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

That reminds me... which one is better? SS2? And is it still easy to get ahold of? I need to finally get a hold of one and play it.

SS2 runs on XP with the latest patches, and the graphics are OK enough; the game is still a lot of fun, I've replayed it recently.

 

[NavNucST3]

SS2 runs on XP with the latest patches, and the graphics are OK enough; the game is still a lot of fun, I've replayed it recently.

OT: Agreed, It stands the test of time very well. But as usual, the games that gamers ask for, tank in sales. I already invision critical acclaim for BioShock, but with the glut of the subjective good/great games in 2007, Irrational will have another flop $$$-wise, but they will have my $60 or $70 day and date.

 

[Darkon]

I'm not looking for a ground breaking story in a game to be honest. I think books and movies do a better a job, and I mainly want a story that brings me into a games universe. One that's preferably interesting, although I don't find this always essential. I for example didn't think the story segments in Splinter Cell were interesting at all, but they were sufficient to make my character more beliveable. MGS2 on the otherhand immediatly started off with these excessivley dramatic and unrealistic conversations that had joined forces with a large dose of poor voice acting and my interest went downhill form there. For games like FF this is of course even more damaging and it's a large part of what's made many Japanese releases unappealing to me.

I don't think so , unless of course you started on the plant chapter.

 

[MasterDisaster]

But I cant comment on it since I never playied it.

:smile: