Kutaragi on delay and on sony

[London Geezer]

Considering SC2 was released on PS2 among a whole plethora of amazing fighting games like the Tekkens and the VF's, it's quite impressive it sold as much as it did on PS2.

On GC, it was pretty much the only fighting game on the platform with SSMB.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Considering SC2 was released on PS2 among a whole plethora of amazing fighting games like the Tekkens and the VF's, it's quite impressive it sold as much as it did on PS2.

Yes the US numbers are very good, but the japanese are rather low or average at best.

 

[darkblu]

Worldwide PS2-version sold more than the Cube-version and in North-America they sold about the same, atleast if vgcharts is to be believed.

http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php?name=Soul+Calibur+2&console=&publisher=&sort=Total

Suprisingly low figures for Japan imo.

somehting does not look quite right in those vgcharts for Japan - for SC2/GC/Jap the all-time total is listed as 107K. which is exactly the figure for the period they have weekly tracking data for, which period, low and behold, covers 2003 only. so not a single copy sold in 2004/2005/2006 ? and if 107K is the GC/Jap total then where the heck is that 140K figure from the ps2/gc Jap comparison chart coming from? overall, those charts raise more questions than they answer.

do we have any other sources?

 

[Crayon]

on the SC tangent (sorry, but one cannot mention something like this and expect people not to jump in)

My numbers is bad!!

Don't know where I got the non-numbers guys, but sorry for the misinfo and thanks for the corrections!

SC2, while I wouldn't call it a travesty, is for sure a hugely overrated fighting game. DOA3 may be a busted mess, but SC2 is closer to that than it is to VF4.

Like DOA3, it's fun at parties and perfect for chemically or mentally inhibited players.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

do we have any other sources?

well I found this, it list's 100 top games on 2003, PS2-version is at 92nd spot with 145k and is the only version on that list...

http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-6852.html

 

[nvvm]

Hello

As of 2005, I believe the PS2 and GC sales were equal (and ~300K ahead of the Xbox). While I don't know how many sales they've had since then, that puts it a good year-and-a-half past launch, so I don't expect too much nor too much extra profits since it would have hit budget prices by then.

The GC version was the fastest selling version before the game hit budget pricing, it was not equal to me as far as units sold I can't seem to find anything on per platform but I thought gcn was ahead. The GCN version DESPITE smaller userbase sold faster and better, that saying something people are conviently trying to ignore and contradicts points trying to be made by others in regards to software sales being tied to a specific platform. This is what happens when developers actually spend time developing a game properly for the system instead of shoveling ports on the system(which happen a lot last gen) and saying it doesnt sell because of the console.

- SC2 on the Cube was one of the only fighting games of that type--and really the only one of stature--and the higher-than-expected would be expected to drop as many of the GC owners would be sated. Or at least not be as hungry.

No that's inaccurate gcn had a couple of fighting games they just lacked polish or any reason to buy it full price when you could pick up a budget ps2 version. Devs can't complain it the userbase doesnt accept shovelware.

Now of course SC3 did NOT sell as well (I'm not sure of its' numbers, but it started selling at around 10 and dropped slowly over the next few months while PS2 SC2 started higher (like, #4) and stayed longer, if I remember correctly), but I hardly blame that on platform choice. I think it was still respectable, but not what they were hoping for.

Makes you wonder how it would have sold on the GCN seeing how strong sales were for SCII on GCN.

A) Fighting games themselves have been on the decline.
B) They were following up a strong-ass game like Soul Calibur II way too quickly--for fighting games in general and ESPECIALLY in relation to the series itself.
C) It didn't receive the marketing blitz SC2 did. (Though it was not poorly marketed by any stretch.)
D) There was no arcade game out previously to get the hardcore fighting gamers excited, or keep up the visual presence that would make them eventually give in and buy the game.

I agree with this in general but not for the reasoning of sc3's poor sales, just in general these concepts are true. When applied as reasoning for the low sales it's merely one aspect of the many factors. Again one can't help but ask what it would have done if it was treated the same as the SCII release(per platform)

 

[superNoid]

I think another aspect to consider is the changing demographics of gamers. There are more and more older gamers, and as I’ve noticed from me and my friends, game choice changes. Games like Final Fantasy and MGS might have appealed to me when I was in my teens but now I find them highly overrated and difficult to take seriously given their (imo) cheesy storyline and poor voice acting. While there are certainly enjoyable Japanese games, I find myself liking western games more in comparison and I have a feeling I'm not the only one.

Agreed 100%.

I think there will be a major shift in sales figures come 2007.

 

[Moonblade]

The GCN version DESPITE smaller userbase sold faster and better, that saying something people are conviently trying to ignore and contradicts points trying to be made by others in regards to software sales being tied to a specific platform.

I disagree. I remember an interview with Yotoriyama who said the gamecube version had the highest penetration (software/hadrware ratio) but the PS2 version sold better.

 

[darkblu]

well I found this, it list's 100 top games on 2003, PS2-version is at 92nd spot with 145k and is the only version on that list...

http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-6852.html

well, that does not contradict the data from vgcharts where the GC version was listed at 107K by the end of 2003, and given that the magicbox chart ends up at '130,920', the GC version likely did not make it in. in the same time, though, we know (i.e. IGN and the wikipedia author know) how 2003 ended up for SC2 on a world scale - the GC had ~50K lead. so we still don't how things developed past 2003, and ultimately, what is the status quo as of today. and sadly, we will never know how SC3 would have done on the cube..

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

There is one reason the GC version of SCII did so well in comparison to the others....

LINK

The special characters in the PS2/XBOX version of the game were about a billion times less compelling.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

The special characters in the PS2/XBOX version of the game were about a billion times less compelling.

Speak for yourself, Heihachi is THE DADDY!

 

[Crayon]

Speak for yourself, Heihachi is THE DADDY!

Definitly the coolest addition. But he's stupid broken. Banned in tournament play.

Funny enough, Link is not so hot.
Spawn... well. Stupid.

 

[hey69]

praise god they didnt include mario or sonic in it

 

[Nesh]

I think another aspect to consider is the changing demographics of gamers. There are more and more older gamers, and as I’ve noticed from me and my friends, game choice changes. Games like Final Fantasy and MGS might have appealed to me when I was in my teens but now I find them highly overrated and difficult to take seriously given their (imo) cheesy storyline and poor voice acting. While there are certainly enjoyable Japanese games, I find myself liking western games more in comparison and I have a feeling I'm not the only one.

You forget something.

There are still many new and young ganmers that became fans of Finalk Fantasy and MGS during the PS2 era

There are many old gamers that have grown upand attacjed with these games and would rarely ever consider not to buy the next installment

Also thats just your opinion. There are many of us including me that are stuck with MGS and Final Fantasy.
Personally I reckognise lots of creativity and depth in MGS. Why its storyline may be found cheezy to some is because of the following reasons. It has elements of post modern literature (Hideo seems to be a fan of that kind. He wrote two 600 paged novels in his teen years), it follows a different route than the common "cliche'" stereotype elements most of us are used to with in the majority of games, it has too much philosophy and expresses it deliberately in a complicated, or too deep, or unerelistic or farfetched way because the game seems to "know" its a game with "literaturistic" expression.
Its different. Maybe too different for everyone to like in a plethora of "directly to the catch" games since many dont like playing games to think and ponder.

 

[zifnab]

You forget something.

There are still many new and young ganmers that became fans of Finalk Fantasy and MGS during the PS2 era

There are many old gamers that have grown upand attacjed with these games and would rarely ever consider not to buy the next instalment

No doubt, but there are probably also many people who grow tired of them.

Also thats just your opinion. There are many of us including me that are stuck with MGS and Final Fantasy.

Yes it’s my opinion. I’ve never presented it otherwise.

Personally I reckognise lots of creativity and depth in MGS. Why its storyline may be found cheezy to some is because of the following reasons. It has elements of post modern literature (Hideo seems to be a fan of that kind. He wrote two 600 paged novels in his teen years), it follows a different route than the common "cliche'" stereotype elements most of us are used to with in the majority of games, it has too much philosophy and expresses it deliberately in a complicated, or too deep, or unerelistic or farfetched way because the game seems to "know" its a game with "literaturistic" expression.
Its different. Maybe too different for everyone to like in a plethora of "directly to the catch" games since many dont like playing games to think and ponder.

This sort of philosophical theme is seen in a lot of media (manga, anime, games, etc.) in Japan, and it’s typically aimed at a younger audience. If you still enjoy it that’s great but it doesn’t appeal to me anymore. I'd probably still enjoy it a little if it wasn’t presented in such an over the top and dramatic way. To me it seems like they are trying to force the audience into a certain mood rather than let that mood be a result in itself. I personally like games that make me think, but I don’t find these stories expressively complicated and if I want intellectual stimulus I’d rather look somewhere else than MGS.

 

[Nesh]

No doubt, but there are probably also many people who grow tired of them.

I agree. I didnt rule that out.

Yes it’s my opinion. I’ve never presented it otherwise.

agreed

This sort of philosophical theme is seen in a lot of media (manga, anime, games, etc.) in Japan, and it’s typically aimed at a younger audience. If you still enjoy it that’s great but it doesn’t appeal to me anymore. I'd probably still enjoy it a little if it wasn’t presented in such an over the top and dramatic way. To me it seems like they are trying to force the audience into a certain mood rather than let that mood be a result in itself. I personally like games that make me think, but I don’t find these stories expressively complicated and if I want intellectual stimulus I’d rather look somewhere else than MGS.

That depends. Manga and Anime of that sorts pull both the attention of young and grown up audience. Usually its the art direction that may set apart the audience. There are lots of social themed, political themed etc Anime and Manga as well. Anime and Manga arent targeteted in general twoards younger audience only anyways. And in Japan even grown ups are addicted to crazy things that someone in the west could find weird for a grown up to like.

Moving from Japan to the west, Anime and Manga are beginning to get extremely popular in Europe and the US, and gain lots of popularity from all ages. Usually the obstacle twards pulling enough interest from older audience in these territories is the colorful image of these.

But since life-filmed movies cant be labeled as cartoons more and more are curious to watch films having similar themes and depth found in Anime and Manga. So japanese movies are getting more popular too. The same counts for MGS series.It mixes western art direction with philosophy and depth(which in many many cases it has non-japanese roots) found in japanese Anime thats why it did well with so many especially in European territories.

The original Matrix inspired by Anime was another example of phylosophical themed plot that gained extreme popularity and it wasnt just the effects and fight scenes.

Ofcourse I respect your feel about the game. But I am talking generally about it, putting aside individual opinions.

 

[zifnab]

That depends. Manga and Anime of that sorts pull both the attention of young and grown up audience. Usually its the art direction that may set apart the audience. There are lots of social themed, political themed etc Anime and Manga as well. Anime and Manga arent targeteted in general twoards younger audience only anyways. And in Japan even grown ups are addicted to crazy things that someone in the west could find weird for a grown up to like.

Moving from Japan to the west, Anime and Manga are beginning to get extremely popular in Europe and the US, and gain lots of popularity from all ages. Usually the obstacle twards pulling enough interest from older audience in these territories is the colorful image of these.

Yes, there’s a broad demographic market for anime and manga, but I have the impression that it’s mostly aimed at teens/children - hence people for example use the word otaku for adults who watch anime (with the exception of select movies). Since this is getting off topic I’ll leave it at that though.

But since life-filmed movies cant be labeled as cartoons more and more are curious to watch films having similar themes and depth found in Anime and Manga. So japanese movies are getting more popular too. The same counts for MGS series.It mixes western art direction with philosophy and depth(which in many many cases it has non-japanese roots) found in japanese Anime thats why it did well with so many especially in European territories.

I don't think games like MGS will experience much greater western popularity than they already have. At least not on the merits you have mentioned imo.

The original Matrix inspired by Anime was another example of phylosophical themed plot that gained extreme popularity and it wasnt just the effects and fight scenes.

The Matrix was nevertheless very different from its original inspiration and the execution in particular was a world apart.

Just want to note, it's not that I don't think there are still interesting Japanese games, and I for example quite enjoyed the last Zelda. It however imo doesn't take its story and presentation too seriously (as opposed to these games that I find cheesy) but instead focuses on the game mechanics.

 

[Nesh]

Yes, there’s a broad demographic market for anime and manga, but I have the impression that it’s mostly aimed at teens/children - hence people for example use the word otaku for adults who watch anime (with the exception of select movies). Since this is getting off topic I’ll leave it at that though.

You may not be wrong on this. Probably the majority is aimed towards younger audience. But even as such the remaining anime/manga is still big and gain lots of interest.

I wouldnt say that US and Europe suffers from the otaku phenomenon yet. I think its a healthy interest. Otaku is well...not a very complimenting word. It's usually a description for extreme fans that could be adults or not that spent a huge portion of their life with anime and manga.

The point is that various of these themes gain lots of interest outdside Japan as well, that dont necessarilly have to be presented through anime or manga.

I don't think games like MGS will experience much greater western popularity than they already have. At least not on the merits you have mentioned imo.

Well I dont know if it will experience much greater popularity. I was refering generally about the increasing popularity of such themes. Not specifically for MGS. But I was pointing out that it is likely that it will remain highly popular

The Matrix was nevertheless very different from its original inspiration and the execution in particular was a world apart.

Either way I think thats irrelevant. The result is what matters. Which is, despite the philosophical theme of the movie it grew popular.

It pulled lots of adults who have been fans of mythology, philosophy and psychology. It even mixed probability theories in there.

Just want to note, it's not that I don't think there are still interesting Japanese games, and I for example quite enjoyed the last Zelda. It however imo doesn't take its story and presentation too seriously (as opposed to these games that I find cheesy) but instead focuses on the game mechanics.

No no dont get me wrong. I didnt think you thought that.

MGS just falls to a different category of games. Actually it may even have its own category.

 

[Crayon]

This sort of philosophical theme is seen in a lot of media (manga, anime, games, etc.) in Japan, and it’s typically aimed at a younger audience. If you still enjoy it that’s great but it doesn’t appeal to me anymore. I'd probably still enjoy it a little if it wasn’t presented in such an over the top and dramatic way. To me it seems like they are trying to force the audience into a certain mood rather than let that mood be a result in itself. I personally like games that make me think, but I don’t find these stories expressively complicated and if I want intellectual stimulus I’d rather look somewhere else than MGS.

I'd say it's fair to put Final Fantasy in that basket. But the Matrix (the movie) had the same type of weakly tied together religious refference and pseudo-philosophical sprinkles and it was plenty entertaining. It really gets a 16 year olds gears turning and for the rest of us it's honest good fun. No worse than a serial fantasy novel or whatever.

I think MGS is another case entirely. Kojima has taken strides in interactive storytelling. The digital puppet shows of MGS are pretty heavy. The ott drama is not accident, but executed. Most importantly he is developing narratives in a way that you could not do with a non-interactive media. How many players hated Raiden? Alot. How many probably didn't grasp the fact that Raiden was an allegory for themselves? I'd be just as many. It's good stuff. Better than any movie I saw last year.

 

[fireshot]

I think another aspect to consider is the changing demographics of gamers. There are more and more older gamers, and as I’ve noticed from me and my friends, game choice changes. Games like Final Fantasy and MGS might have appealed to me when I was in my teens but now I find them highly overrated and difficult to take seriously given their (imo) cheesy storyline and poor voice acting. While there are certainly enjoyable Japanese games, I find myself liking western games more in comparison and I have a feeling I'm not the only one.

IAWTP.

My games library used to be story driven, which means it consists of many japaneses titles(rpgs), on the other hand games with save the princess story goes down the pecking order. These days after my age goes past the 20 mark, i realized most games story are badly written and there is really no deeper meaning behind the convoluted plot twists. I look to gameplay with a simple story any time, explains why i no longer play japanese rpgs.

Hint to developers, if you take your storyline seriously, make sure you hired a good writer, and keep the sappy drama low.