Kutaragi on delay and on sony

[Brad Grenz]

Those FF-images are nice but we´re pretty much seeing about the same quailty with Mass Effect and this game is a Q1 2007 game..

_----------

Then we have some people saying that PS3 will win just because it have MGS4 and FF as exclusive.. yeah, in Japan maybe but if we look at worldwide sales, at least Halo is a much better system seller than both of these (in the west).

And besides, there are bound to be other system sellers on 360 as well, that can help out a lot. Gears of War seems to be that kind of game, we will have Mass Effect in Q1 2007, BioShock, Alan Wake.. to name a few..

So, in my mind, every "exclusive" the PS3 has so far, 360 either matches it or exceeds it...

Xbox 360: We Don't Need No Stinking Hair!

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Well screenshot wars aside, the very fact that we're debating whether or not FF might go to other platforms because of the PS3 launch fiasco is something Sony should be worried about. MS is going to ship 10 million X360s in NA/EU before Sony can even ship 1.5 million. That's pretty significant. MS can probably maintain their world-wide lead through the end of 2007 now and possibly through 2008.

 

[Crayon]

...something Sony should be worried about....

I was hanging off the PS2 launch every bit as much I am the PS3 launch. I've got a pretty good memory and I remember a situation that was similar to this one. Very very similar. Lots of doubt lots of worry. Not saying things are going to play out the same way, but if Sony is worried about anything (are they? They're pretty good at this.) it isn't the tide of negative buzz.

 

[rabidrabbit]

MS can probably maintain their world-wide lead through the end of 2007 now and possibly through 2008.

Based on what sales numbers.
The PS2 still outsells xbox360 worldwide. Not to mention the combined sales of PS2 and PSP.
The DS also outsells xbox360 worldwide I think.
xbox360 is a console, old consoles (and portables) are consoles too and compete at the very same market.

 

[A176]

Well screenshot wars aside, the very fact that we're debating whether or not FF might go to other platforms because of the PS3 launch fiasco is something Sony should be worried about. MS is going to ship 10 million X360s in NA/EU before Sony can even ship 1.5 million. That's pretty significant. MS can probably maintain their world-wide lead through the end of 2007 now and possibly through 2008.

I think the real reason we're debating it is because we really, really, really want to see these titles on other platforms

As per White Engine - for me, its not a matter of technology, but art direction, and Japanese developers still take my preference to this day. Just look at the IGN grab. People were bitching and complaining about Forza 2's flat grass, but there are many flat things in that screenie, but that does not detract from the beauty of the shot.

 

[MasterDisaster]

Based on what sales numbers.
The PS2 still outsells xbox360 worldwide. Not to mention the combined sales of PS2 and PSP.
The DS also outsells xbox360 worldwide I think.
xbox360 is a console, old consoles (and portables) are consoles too and compete at the very same market.

are you confusing apples with bananas?

all the SH are going in NextGen developing, they are looking which NG platform is going to sell better, who, lookin' in near future, cares of ps2?

 

[Oninotsume]

I think the real reason we're debating it is because we really, really, really want to see these titles on other platforms

You know, to tell the truth, I don't care which console something is on. I would rather see super fine tuned, pushed to the technical limit games on one console rather than a watered down version on 2 or 3. If it were the case that it doesn't effect the game so much, than that's not big deal, but I think a game like FF is pretty hard coded for whatever machine it's on.

Square will release FF on whatever machine they think the Japanese will back, since they get major sales over here as compared with the west, where they're still pretty big, but not as quite.

 

[-tkf-]

but if we look at worldwide sales, at least Halo is a much better system seller than both of these (in the west).

Halo is really an amazing achievement, i never got into it, i HATE fps games on consoles with a passion. But i think that the lack of really amazing AAA titles for the XBOX helped boost Halos number as well.

 

[PiNkY]

Based on what sales numbers.
The PS2 still outsells xbox360 worldwide. Not to mention the combined sales of PS2 and PSP.
The DS also outsells xbox360 worldwide I think.
xbox360 is a console, old consoles (and portables) are consoles too and compete at the very same market.

Sorry, but the idea that there isn't any difference in sell through between the 150$/€ console market and the 400$/€ console market is just silly. You can spin it all day, but if you have to delay one of your core products twice (as in Europe), you obviously have to improve upon your execution.

 

[liolio]

Sorry, but the idea that there isn't any difference in sell through between the 150$/€ console market and the 400$/€ console market is just silly. You can spin it all day, but if you have to delay one of your core products twice (as in Europe), you obviously have to improve upon your execution.

Sony encounter problem, it's a given but we still don't how Sony will manage to ramp its prodcution. I'm somewhat pessimistic anyway.

But I'm starting to be pessimitic for the xbox360 too.
The sales are not that good in fact. Ok they have shipped 5 millions and something units, but how many are sold? Especialy in Europe?
Not a lot I guess, I can add that ms have done very few to to introduce the xbox360 to the massmarket at least here in France. Most Of my friends should be surprised by the quality of the system but they're in the dark ...no advertissment compaign.
So a Ps2 at 150$ and a xbox360$ are diiferent beast, people buy the ps2 to play a huge game library for cheap and piracy on ps2 help this situation even more to be honest.
The truth is that at xbox360 at 400$ is still *****g expensive for most gamers including me. And I don't even want to speak about the price of the games...

At the end of the day, maybe Sony will be able to catch up quickly with MS not that importantwho care about 5Millions against 7 millions when both system aim at +50millions units?
The real battle will begin when one of the system will hit a more affordable pricepoint.
Ms will be the first it's obvious, and I hope they will understand that the only way for them to match Sony, is to be aggressive here in europe both with the price of games, system and to have an important advertissment campaign.
Ps2 is still attractive but persons who buy a 150$ ps and the ones who buy a 500/600$ ps3 with games as expensive as xbox one are not the same.

 

[PiNkY]

Pretty much agree with you on most points. Regarding the 360, i don't really know the european numbers, but in germany it is doing rather well aparently. These are market share numbers by sony germany for cy06. The 360 already has 7% console market share after 3/4 of a year (nearly half xbox's and gamecube's respectively) link and 9% software market share (pretty much even with the gc and xbox) link . I mean they are still ways of sony's ps2, but that is to be expected in such a price sensitive market. I am currently in Munich and it certainly concides with the amount of shelf space the 360 has in large electronic stores (considerably more then xbox and gc, still less then ps2).

 

[lefizz]

I read teh 360 had shipped 1.3 millions units in europe with almost a million in the uk.
It is doing veyr well here in the uk and even better in terms of software sales. All the big game releases are selling in huge number.

 

[liolio]

thank you for this numbers, I had no clue
In france I don't know the number, but france seems as playstation centric as it can be.
Maybe we will change, french are very piracy sensitive lol and ps3 due to BR is not piracy friendly.

 

[London Geezer]

Well screenshot wars aside, the very fact that we're debating whether or not FF might go to other platforms because of the PS3 launch fiasco is something Sony should be worried about. MS is going to ship 10 million X360s in NA/EU before Sony can even ship 1.5 million. That's pretty significant.

Sega had around 10-12 million Dreamcasts in people's homes before there was one playstation2 in the shops. Did that change Square's mind? Or Konami, or all the other developers who made the PS2 such a great gaming machine?

It's not all about who can get the most systems in people's homes first, it's about convincing these developers that your console will be N.1 when it eventually gets released, surpassing the established console's userbase rather quickly and easily, regardless of the fact that those devs could very well release games on the already established console in the meantime. And convince them of the fact that by the time the game is actually ready to be shipped (and looking at Square's total lack of deadlines, that's usually a LONG time), the console will have a very big userbase. I'd have thought more people would have understood that.

 

[Sethamin]

It's not all about who can get the most systems in people's homes first, it's about convincing these developers that your console will be N.1 when it eventually gets released, surpassing the established console's userbase rather quickly and easily, regardless of the fact that those devs could very well release games on the already established console in the meantime. And convince them of the fact that by the time the game is actually ready to be shipped (and looking at Square's total lack of deadlines, that's usually a LONG time), the console will have a very big userbase. I'd have thought more people would have understood that.

But that's the whole point. Sony has planted the seeds of doubt among its own publishers and developers by pricing their console so high and executing so poorly. So now, some of those publishers might target an additional platform just in case to hedge their bets for the future. This would've been unthinkable two years ago, maybe even one year ago. But today people are jittery about the PS3. Whoever commented that they don't care about all this bad PR is dead wrong; perception is everything in this industry.

 

[a688]

Sega had around 10-12 million Dreamcasts in people's homes before there was one playstation2 in the shops. Did that change Square's mind? Or Konami, or all the other developers who made the PS2 such a great gaming machine?

It's not all about who can get the most systems in people's homes first, it's about convincing these developers that your console will be N.1 when it eventually gets released, surpassing the established console's userbase rather quickly and easily, regardless of the fact that those devs could very well release games on the already established console in the meantime. And convince them of the fact that by the time the game is actually ready to be shipped (and looking at Square's total lack of deadlines, that's usually a LONG time), the console will have a very big userbase. I'd have thought more people would have understood that.

The xbox360 is NOT the Dreamcast, nor does MS have Sega's problems. Comparision invalid. If you want, you could compare Sony to Nintendo, PS1 = NES, PS2 = SNES, PS3 = N64 and we all know how well that turned out

 

[London Geezer]

But that's the whole point. Sony has planted the seeds of doubt among its own publishers and developers by pricing their console so high and executing so poorly. So now, some of those publishers might target an additional platform just in case to hedge their bets for the future. This would've been unthinkable two years ago, maybe even one year ago. But today people are jittery about the PS3. Whoever commented that they don't care about all this bad PR is dead wrong; perception is everything in this industry.

Executing so poorly? They're late with the Euro launch but so far they haven't even "executed" anything... They obviously have very persuasive execs, because even after all this "disappointment" that you speak, all the major games that MS can only dream of are still Sony exclusive. Call that whatever you like but it won't change the fact that at the end of the day, so far the PS3 library will be to the 360 Library what the PS2 library was to the Xbox one. Sure, american and PC gamers might like the Xbox library, but in the end it's easy to see what Sony's strengths are. Whatever "disappointment" European gamers might feel and whatever shortages there will be, which are hardly unexpected anyway.

 

[Arwin]

The xbox360 is NOT the Dreamcast, nor does MS have Sega's problems. Comparision invalid. If you want, you could compare Sony to Nintendo, PS1 = NES, PS2 = SNES, PS3 = N64 and we all know how well that turned out

Yes, Nintendo refused to upgrade their game media and they lost Square. Now 360 has foregone HD-DVD for games and you think they will win Square? No wonder the 360 doesn't take off in Japan.

And yes, the 360 is no Dreamcast, at least not in theory ... Don't for one moment think that the 360 will be allowed to lose another 4 billion. But at the same time, today we are living in an age where developers are ready and willing to support multiple platforms. No matter if the 360 or the PS3 is going to be most sold platform, as long as the effort required to bring out games for these platforms outweigh the additional costs of supporting another platform (which are much lower than the costs for developing the game by itself), all 2 or 3 platforms are going to see a sufficient amount of good games.

The question forever remains which is the best platform for you. And if you are really interested in which console is going to win the console war, then you will have to figure out which platform is going to be the most attractive platform to the most amount of people for the longest amount of time.

Anyway, this topic is drifting into a console war rehash. Pointless waste of space ...

 

[London Geezer]

The xbox360 is NOT the Dreamcast, nor does MS have Sega's problems. Comparision invalid. If you want, you could compare Sony to Nintendo, PS1 = NES, PS2 = SNES, PS3 = N64 and we all know how well that turned out

I never meant to say that the 360 is a Dreamcast. My point is that if installed userbase of a certain console was everything, then lots of developers would have "jumped ship" to Dreamcast, as its userbase was relatively large by the time PS2 launched.
Xbox360 will never be a dreamcast because MS will never finish their cash on this project, but it's undeniable that as far as dev support goes, history is repeating itself, whatever american games MS can secure. There's just "something" about great japanese games, most of which are Sony exclusive, which will always be the difference between a Sony or Nintendo (or Sega) console and a MS one.

MS needs japanese games whether gamers used to playing Unreal Tournament like them or not and this is quite obvious.

 

[Powderkeg]

I never meant to say that the 360 is a Dreamcast. My point is that if installed userbase of a certain console was everything, then lots of developers would have "jumped ship" to Dreamcast, as its userbase was relatively large by the time PS2 launched.

Sega had barely broken 7 million systems sold when they cancelled the Dreamcast, more than 2 years after it first launched in Japan.