Kutaragi Ken interview on PSP

[Galian Beast]

Unless I see otherwise, I'll believe it.

"Perhaps with the exception of Sony Pictures but as you like to point out yourself SCEI is a seperate business with no direct influence on other Sony companies." - You.

LOL. We have an insider people... You have NO idea who sony has talked to. And besides that, you don't have to have supporters to say that your product is cheaper to make than an already existing product.

It wasn't the meaning of what I said, and it I clarified when someone said they didn't understand me. You just failed to read that part of the topic...

LOL. Now you are making excuses...

LEARN ENGLISH KID! LEARN HOW TO FREAKING READ. I'll repeat myself ONCE again. Smaller than something that is already portable and handheld = no problems concerning size...

Again learn how to read. I said if a game takes the EXACT same elements of a previous games. Metal Gear Solid uses the elements from MGS expands on them, and adds completely new elements. Thus not a rehash.

And like I told him using a proprietary minidvd is no different than creating your own proprietary media. But he was talking about an open format, so I assumed he meant a dvd disc that could be read on other systems, but had a smaller physical size.

Learn to read someone's entire paragraph instead of responding to the rhetorical part of it...

 

[PC-Engine]

There are plenty of MD player models, and yet that cleary isn't something that picked up...
It isn't about the number of players. It's still a niche product selling to those who can afford such an expense.

Actually I'm pretty sure MD players have picked up compared to previous years. What you don't understand here is that as a prerecorded format MD didn't pick up, but the players have because people are using it as a medium to hold MP3s etc.

They are niche because the industry hasn't aligned itself behind one.

Like I said MD had nothing pushing it besides SE. UMD has a push from a much more popular brand, and company.

Well I guess we'll have to wait and see who's prediction will be true...

I clearly said a GOOD portable dvd player. 3 hour battery life is hardly good. The point was never that the PSP would have great battery life, but that point was that the market is limited because of the price. If quality needs to be decreased in order to reach a lower price, that doesn't mean that people will buy the product... Thus still limited...

Well that's how technology works. Price will continue to come down while technology gets better, both battery and power reduction technology.

 

[cybamerc]

Galian Beast:

> You have NO idea who sony has talked to

Nor do I claim to.

> And besides that, you don't have to have supporters to say that your
> product is cheaper to make than an already existing product.

Of course you do. Sony doesn't decide what other companies charge for a
product.

> It wasn't the meaning of what I said, and it I clarified when someone
> said they didn't understand me. You just failed to read that part of the
> topic...

I'd love to respond but you're not making much sense. Perhaps you could rephrase it to make understandable or at least include a sample of what you're responding to?

> Smaller than something that is already portable and handheld = no
> problems concerning size...

That is a mobile phone from the mid 80ies. Would you carry such a thing
around today? Do you consider it a benchmark for modern cell phone
design?

> I said if a game takes the EXACT same elements of a previous games.

So as long as there's even the smallest change it doesn't qualify as a
rehash by your definition? How do you define a port then?

> so I assumed he meant a dvd disc that could be read on other systems

Why would you do that when he clearly stated it would be proprietary?

 

[archie4oz]

I doubt he was even born when they stopped making prerecorded MDs.

That would mean that he doesn't currently exist...

Perhaps with the exception of Sony Pictures but as you like to point out yourself SCEI is a seperate business with no direct influence on other Sony companies. The wording alone clearly shows that nothing is set in stone, So does similar comments made by Kutaragi.

The fact is SCE is a COMPLETELY different company than Sony Electronics. Comparing them for ANY reason (other than internal profiting or something)is sheer stupidity. They have completely different management, different goals, and different practices.

I think (from both of you) to say that Sony Divisions are completely different companies is a bit much... While they've traditionally not always been very cooperative, they're much more tied together now, and are pretty collaborative with several projects... As far as UMD goes, Kutaragi maybe the biggest current spokesman for it, but it's still coming from Sony Electronics and is something that is a cooperative effort between them, SCE, SME, and SPE...

 

[PC-Engine]

Slighty OT, but I was inside SONY Pictures and Columbia studios a couple of days ago....however don't ask me why I was there.

 

[cybamerc]

archie4oz:

> That would mean that he doesn't currently exist...

Um... who's releasing music on MDs today? Sony Music isn't. The ones they're selling are old stock.

> While they've traditionally not always been very cooperative, they're
> much more tied together now

Well, you don't change years of business practice in a few months. It's wasn't long ago I read an interview with one of the Sony big-wigs complaining about how Sony Music is behind the times. If I remember correctly it was either Idei or Ando... I mean if these people have a problem with the way Sony Music is run they should be able to do something about it. Yet Sony Music still doesn't offer downloadable music, still overcharges on CDs, still works against the overall interest of the Sony Corporation in its crusade against piracy.

Now things may have improved and in terms of SCEI's influence, Kutaragi obviously has a whole lot more power now, but the various divisions are still very much run independently with little regard to the interests of the rest of the company.

 

[Glonk]

Um, because Sony's that big of a company. They own their own front-end media houses who will suport it and PSP will probobly be huge as it is - creating it's own market.

One word: betamax

 

[Vince]

One word: betamax

True, but Betamax had a set-piece competitor (VHS) that was equivalent in function and uses. UMD will be adopted into the mainstream anyway as a game storage format for PCP, a position that is adventageous in that it adds consumer support for UMD in a more Trojan Horse/Backdoor scenario.

Direct parallels are difficult because the pervasiveness and use of high-end electronics has changed so much in the time post-Beta. But, perhaps BetaMax would have won if the hardware was already put into consumers hands in a similar indirect way.

 

[Galian Beast]

They have picked up compared to previous years, but they still aren't mainstream as the cd player is. And yet the music industry still needs a new prerecorded medium to replace cds for music. They don't like the piracy and that is the whole point.

Yep. We can wait.

I never said the price wouldn't go down. All I said that there wasn't a good dvd player currently out right now to my knowledge that didn't cost more than most people are willing to pay for.
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You did claim that it had no support. Even though Kutaragi has already said he has talked to many people, and that many companies outside the industry are going to support it, but I guess to you that doesn't mean anything...

Sony CAN set a standard though. And by comparing production costs of two different things, you can tell which will cost more in retail...

When I was talking about the Gameboy stagnating the industry, someone said they didn't understand. So I clarified what I was talking about RIGHT after. If you had read that, you wouldn't have said anything. So I must assume you didn't.

No, and you prove my point. Cell phones did not become mainstream, at that size, just as video players, wont become mainstream at their current size. People want convienance. And lugging something around is not convienant.

A small change is still a rehash, still the same elements. A port is just taking code from one game, and taking it onto another platform... a port is also usually a rehash.

He contradicted himself. By saying open format and proprietary, but he wouldn't have a case at all if he meant proprietary...

Archie try taking some of your spare time to look at sony's business model. Joining groups isn't something limited to subsidiaries of the same parent company.

Actually the UMD is a Sony Computer Entertainment product. Check out the trademark owner. SME and SPE haven't even got involved publically... so I don't know where you are getting that.

Exactly my point Vince. It is a backdoor for Sony to get a medium to become standardized.

 

[cybamerc]

Galian Beast:

> You did claim that it had no support.

It's a fact.

> Even though Kutaragi has already said he has talked to many people

Talk does not equal support.

> and that many companies outside the industry are going to support it

Noone from Sony has ever stated that as a fact.

> And by comparing production costs of two different things, you can tell
> which will cost more in retail...

Nonsense. Profit margins are not dictated by a generalized set of rules. Moreover Sony has never said a word about production costs. Deering talked about estimated retail prices.

Incidentally, they expect some games to be nearly twice the price of current GBA titles. Funny you didn't mention that. [Galian Beast logic]Hmm... I guess that must mean that UMDs will be even more expensive to manufacture than GBA carts[/Galian Beast logic]

Go back to school kid.

> When I was talking about the Gameboy stagnating the industry,
> someone said they didn't understand.

And why bring that up again? It's over and done with. You made an erroneous statement and were corrected for it. End of discussion.

> Cell phones did not become mainstream, at that size, just as video
> players, wont become mainstream at their current size.

And considering that PSP will be larger than a modern portable music player noone will want to use it as that.

> A small change is still a rehash, still the same elements.

But you said "exact same elements". It can't be exactly the same if it has been changed, however minute the change is.

> He contradicted himself.

Not at all.

> By saying open format and proprietary

Maybe you'd have a point if he actually said that - but he didn't.

 

[chaphack]

umm, just a thought, but are people really going to take up viewing video on the go? I dont know, watching short clips(like say news update/sports highlights) might be fine, but a whole license movie? furthermore, viewable area <-> portability has to find a balance and coexist nicely. So you can only shrink that much.

Maybe thats why portable DVD players have not really taken off(apart from the price and functionality, OF WHICH have a close relation with sales/acceptance). Whats to say of UMD...

 

[cthellis42]

They take up portable everything else, so why not?

It's not going to skyrocket to amazing acceptance and overriding purchase impulses, but it picks up. People started buying portable DVD's the moment they hit, even at obscene prices. There are plenty of reasons... just not a HUGE market. That market, however, might improve if they had a lot of other things to back it up with. Say, perhaps, a great gaming machine...

The answer is always "who knows"? No one expects instant paradigm shifts, but there's always potential, and there are always products that seem to come out of nowhere and do extremely well and push other aspects of the overall industry.

 

[archie4oz]

Slighty OT, but I was inside SONY Pictures and Columbia studios a couple of days ago....however don't ask me why I was there.

Whatcha doin' there? Or should I say which Lot? Main or Culver?

Um... who's releasing music on MDs today? Sony Music isn't. The ones they're selling are old stock.

Sony Music... It's a trickle and I haven't seen any 2003 releases, but they did do releases in 2002... IIRC there's still a few groups in Europe who publish to MD (one even strictly to MD)...

Well, you don't change years of business practice in a few months. It's wasn't long ago I read an interview with one of the Sony big-wigs complaining about how Sony Music is behind the times. If I remember correctly it was either Idei or Ando...

It's been changing for years not months... Sony Corp. 10 years ago is quite different than it was 5 years ago, and VERY different now...

Yet Sony Music still doesn't offer downloadable music, still overcharges on CDs, still works against the overall interest of the Sony Corporation in its crusade against piracy.

Yes the do offer downloads... Not only in their own site (very limited and basic), but also via PressPlay (although they recently divested in it).

While there has been contention between various divisions (mainly media publishing divisions like Music and Pictures vs. Electronics) it's mainly because one division will undertake in a project without consulting another division of the ramifications (of course that would also happen between projects in the same division as well, that even happens to MS)... It happens a lot less these days.

As far as the Crusade against Piracy goes, keep in mind that's the RIAA (or MPAA) not Sony Music as a whole (e.g. the company has very different policies depending on what country it's in). It still has to be pro-active to maintain good standing within it's regional memberships (think of it as being in a union). Conflicts no matter how hard you try sometimes can't be avoided...

Now things may have improved and in terms of SCEI's influence, Kutaragi obviously has a whole lot more power now, but the various divisions are still very much run independently with little regard to the interests of the rest of the company.

SCEI's influence simply grew out of the business it brought. And while the various divisions are relatively independent, they do not run with little regard to the interests of the rest of the company. I'm not sure why you need to make that up... When the Playstation launched and sales SCEI underestimated sales demand of specific titles, Sony Music would step in and cut music CD production to accomodate Playstation CD production...

One word: betamax

One word: Professional video... While Beta failed as a consumer media, it pretty much is the standard for professional video (even in the face of newer digital pro-formats like DVCAM, DVCPro, IMX, HDCAM)

And considering that PSP will be larger than a modern portable music player noone will want to use it as that.

Huh? The most common portable music players are still CD based devices like a Discman... Not exactly "small"...

 

[cthellis42]

One word: Professional video...

Um, but that's... uh... oh, nevermind.

 

[PC-Engine]

Or should I say which Lot? Main or Culver?

I was in the Thalberg building and Jerry Something building at Columbia Studios and SONY Pictures respectively on Culver Blvd. I was in that Culver TV Studios mansion on Washington Blvd too.

The reason why I was there? Well it had something to do with scripts. 8)

 

[akira888]

Actually the reason why Beatmax went feet-up is that Sony disallowed adult films at first on the media. Tons of people instead purchased VHS to buy porn tapes (which in the early days of video were arguably a majority of tapes sold) rather than go to the traditional smoky XXX theater where all the hardcore perverts were.

edit: PC-Engine, your real name wouldn't happen to be Rhys Southan would it?

 

[Galian Beast]

LOL you keep on contradicting yourself. You have no idea what type of support it has. Just as you have no idea who SCE is talking to.

He said other industry companies were already getting on board.

"At its presentation Wednesday morning, Sony said it has received "strong support and interest" from both game developers and publishers and from film studios for the PSP."

Stop talking out of your ass.

Use common sense why would any claim that media on a format would be cheaper, if it had larger production costs?

Deering said that some high end games would cost 50-60 Euros. Not only was he talking about pricing in Europe, he was talking about games that were extremely high end. He said most games would be 20-30 euros, and consider that it's in europe, that means most games will cost between 15-25 dollars. In Europe you have GBA games going for 40 euros... Who needs to go back to school?

LOL, you brought it up, I didn't. Your failure to read other people's messages resulted in you making an ass of yourself.

LOL, you completely lack logic...

"if I were trying to compete with Sony's PSP I would go for a machine which used a proprietary variation on mini-DVDs for custom content (protected through crypto/media-ID/etc) which also supported playback of A/V from regular mini-DVDs. "
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ChapHack there are plenty of people who are "on the go" for numerous hours during the week. Plenty of societies where a major mode of transportation is bus/subway. I doubt it would ever be as big as music on the go, because it still relys on concentrating on a screen, but it can still be really big.

 

[cybamerc]

archie4oz:

> One word: Professional video...

Such a fallback doesn't exist for UMD however. Had it been recordable it could succeed as the successor for the MD when it fails to establish itself as a portable alternative to CDs and DVDs. Of course they can always change their minds once the hype has settled.

> Huh? The most common portable music players are still CD based
> devices like a Discman

And how many people do you actually see walking around with those? Discmen are bought for children who can carry them around in their schoolbags or people with limited uses (such as listening to music while tanning). The rest of us need something that can fit in a pocket and is more shock resistant.




Galian Beast:

> Just as you have no idea who SCE is talking to.

I'll gladly repeat over and over until you are removed from this board: talk does not equal support.

> "At its presentation Wednesday morning, Sony said it has
> received "strong support and interest" from both game developers and
> publishers and from film studios for the PSP."

From the May 28 conference. Let's use an actaul quote from from the conference instead of someone's summery: "Since our E3 announcement, we have received strong declarations of support from many developers and publishers, and the security system we are introducing to the PSP has attracted serious attention from the movie industry."

A bunch of PR bullshit of course but at least he admits there is no support.

> Use common sense why would any claim that media on a format would
> be cheaper, if it had larger production costs?

Because noone is going to pay more for the inferior version. As far as production costs, a proprietary format with a caddy is quite obviously going to be more expensive than a CD or DVD.

> Deering said that some high end games would cost 50-60 Euros.

Actually, he didn't specify what type of games would cost that much, just that some would. Why would you want to put high-end games on a hand-held anyway unless to please Sony.

"if I were trying to compete with Sony's PSP I would go for a machine which used a proprietary variation on mini-DVDs for custom content (protected through crypto/media-ID/etc) which also supported playback of A/V from regular mini-DVDs."

Merely reading the words isn't enough sonny... you need to understand them as well.

 

[Galian Beast]

Again, jester... TALK CAN EQUAL SUPPORT. You have no idea what Sony's talks lead to. And you have no idea which companies plan to support the PSP. And yet here you are trying to believe because nothing has been announced, that there is no support.

LOL, where is the admittance of no support, all he said is that the PSP attracted people from the movie industry... LOL. Where is your logic.

An inferior product... LOL. It being proprietary says NOTHING of the cost to produce, if you didn't lack common sense you would understand that. That is like saying that even though a specific laptop is "inferior" to a desktop, people won't buy it because it cost more. But fact is laptops do sell well.. You completely lack logic and common sense.

Why wouldn't you want to put a high end game on a handheld? See you are still living in your simpleton world of crappy handheld games, that don't sell for crap, because people who actually have money aren't interested.

the one who needs to learn how to read is you. You completely missed the entire debate about the medium. Are you on drugs?

 

[cthellis42]

> One word: Professional video...

Such a fallback doesn't exist for UMD however. Had it been recordable it could succeed as the successor for the MD when it fails to establish itself as a portable alternative to CDs and DVDs. Of course they can always change their minds once the hype has settled.

He was bringing it up to point to the fact that even "utter failures" by common acceptance and things not adopted as the widest standard still have a habit of solidly falling into the niche market the fits their strengths--and at times expanding said niche a bit because of it as well.

UMD still has a number of strengths that can play out, and we can't really predict how it will be accepted in form #1, nor what other forms it will take in the future to accomidate the market. Not to mention it still had at least a year to start appearing anywhere at ALL, and then years to go before it catches on. Plenty of things can happen in the meanwhile to change the market at many levels, any of which can have their own ripples.

The answer is always "we shall see." We don't know nearly enough one way or another to sing its praises, nor doomsay it utterly.