Kojima talks to Kotaku about MGS4

[aselto]

hmm ... I thought he said it couldn't and pointed to the camo suite effect as an example.

In one interview (in 2005 IIRC) he said that MGS4 could be done on 360 and slight hardware differences between PC, 360 and PS3 are no longer important. it seems he later changed his attitude toward platforms.

As of MGS4 exclusivity, I'm sure it is secured by a deal between Sony and Konami and this is why Splinter Cell 5 is exclusive to 360 - it's sort of Microsoft's countermove. At least that's how I see it.

 

[NERO]

I'm sorry, but in my opinion this kind of stuff is highly overrated.

I'd like to put anyone here in a blind test when it comes to sound.

I'm in! Allright now send me some stereo systems in the mail and I will send them back to you with grades.
------------

Dunno folks. Musing over Kojima's words is futile. For MGS4 he counts as a PS3 dev. He has tried to be diplomatic in how he treats all other platforms though.

 

[NBK-Steve]

Sound is an element many oft forget... (high quality loseless 7.1 soundtrack with an incredible diversity of sound)

I can't believe sound would be an issue. I am willing to be that less people have 7.1 than HDTV's. I have a pretty decent home theater system and I don't have 7.1.

 

[hongcho]

While on the "analogies"...

PS3: Renting a movie theater for yourself. A bit pricey and you don't get a lot of movies. But it's a really good theater!

XB360: Just going to a multiplex. Some popular, some ugly, and occasionally some from the above private theater. Quite a bit of previews. They offer over-priced concession stuff. Sometimes the theater is full of craps on the floor.

Wii: Definitely TV...



Hong.

 

[Neb]

While on the "analogies"...

PS3: Renting a movie theater for yourself. A bit pricey and you don't get a lot of movies. But it's a really good theater!

XB360: Just going to a multiplex. Some popular, some ugly, and occasionally some from the above private theater. Quite a bit of previews. They offer over-priced concession stuff. Sometimes the theater is full of craps on the floor.

Wii: Definitely TV...



Hong.

I think you got the consoles mixed up, the PS3 should be where the xbox360 name is and vice-versa! (Joking)

 

[TheChefO]

I think you got the consoles mixed up, the PS3 should be where the xbox360 name is and vice-versa! (Joking)

Actually that joke isn't far off. Both have quality and crap software just like every console in existance. It would have been nice if Sony implemented some sort of "gold standard" by which ps3 games must live up to but alas, they are just like most every other console manufacturer. Some good, some bad.

Regarding the Wii, I disagree with Hong.
If these two consoles are theaters then Wii is not tv. Wii would be the like a carnival. Not as pretty to look at, but certainly can be fun and in some cases more so.

 

[LunchBox]

a)PS3's price. You don't have to invest a lot (if anything) if you want to go to cinema. On the other hand, you have to invest some money to watch TV (Wii) and even more if you want to have a home theatre (360).
.

Dude... haven't you seen those concession stand prices ??? (/jk)

I guess for the whole theatre experience, you'll need some munchies too

 

[cthellis42]

Wii would be the like a carnival.

Will you also get to step in vomit, get cotton candy stuck in your hair, and smacked upside the head by the occasional Skee Ball?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Actually that joke isn't far off. Both have quality and crap software just like every console in existance. It would have been nice if Sony implemented some sort of "gold standard" by which ps3 games must live up to but alas, they are just like most every other console manufacturer.

Very stupid idea. One person's crap is another's gold. No-one with sense would buy the 'Little Britain' game, but people did. If they want it, you sell it and make money. A 'quality' console wouldn't get anywhere. Hell, you'd elliminate most of EA's portfolio in one move!

 

[TheChefO]

Will you also get to step in vomit, get cotton candy stuck in your hair, and smacked upside the head by the occasional Skee Ball?

And get to see some quite unpleasant carni's as well no doubt.

Regarding the analogy, I suppose another way it makes sense is theater attendance is in decline. The trend is more and more people these days are buying/renting their movies on dvd and watching them on their hometheater rather than go to the Movie theater as the used to. It fits in that sense.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

Very stupid idea. One person's crap is another's gold. No-one with sense would buy the 'Little Britain' game, but people did. If they want it, you sell it and make money. A 'quality' console wouldn't get anywhere. Hell, you'd elliminate most of EA's portfolio in one move!

So sad but true...

 

[TheChefO]

Hell, you'd elliminate most of EA's portfolio in one move!

Woah! low-blow. Actually EA has been producing much better efforts this gen.

Getting to your point, It seemed to be what Kojima was hinting at in both his analogies. Less software but of higher quality. Well, this has not proven to be true. I remember Nintendo making the same argument for n64. Didn't quite hold up either. As you said, it is nice that there are many options for many people. IF Sony would have gone down this implied road that Kojima was suggesting, it would have been admirable. Not everyone would agree with it and some consumers would be turned off by the idea. But like you said, something for everyone. I'm sure some people would have loved such a quality standard to exist.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[djskribbles]

Or sales lagg below expectation or upper-management sees the potential of a port to xb360 or Wii.

Sumo Digital is great.

i kind of doubt sales will be below expectations. by the time MGS4 releases, the ps3's install base will be anywhere from 7-10m. i would think most of the people who purchased PS3's in the first year are either hardcore gamers, or ps fanboys. since MGS has always been targeted at the hardcore gamers, a good percentage of ps3 owners will buy MGS4. not to mention how many people will BUY a ps3 for MGS4. you don't know how many times i've heard "i'm waiting until games like MGS4 come out to buy my ps3".

MGS1 (PS1) and MGS2 sold about 5m copies, and MGS3 sold about 4m copies btw (according to vgcharts).

 

[TheChefO]

i kind of doubt sales will be below expectations. by the time MGS4 releases, the ps3's install base will be anywhere from 7-10m. i would think most of the people who purchased PS3's in the first year are either hardcore gamers, or ps fanboys. since MGS has always been targeted at the hardcore gamers, a good percentage of ps3 owners will buy MGS4. not to mention how many people will BUY a ps3 for MGS4. you don't know how many times i've heard "i'm waiting until games like MGS4 come out to buy my ps3".

MGS1 (PS1) and MGS2 sold about 5m copies, and MGS3 sold about 4m copies btw (according to vgcharts).

Sure, potential is there. No doubt. But if upper-management sees potential to sell elsewhere also, it could spark a port. And IF sales are below expectation, this could also spark a port.

See RE4 developer comments for precedence.

 

[Nesh]

Kojima himself said that MGS4 could run on the 360... almost 2 years ago. The only reason for it to not be possible at this point would be disk space.

Actually he said that he could have chosen to show MGS4 on the 360, not that 360 could run the exact same MGS4 we saw and is developed on the PS3's strengths. Nothing more nothing less. He brought the same movie theater-DVD analogy back then as well

 

[blakjedi]

Actually he said that he could have chosen to show MGS4 on the 360, not that 360 could run the exact same MGS4 we saw and is developed on the PS3's strengths. Nothing more nothing less. He brought the same movie theater-DVD analogy back then as well

was it movie theater - dvd or was it the dinner/hamburger/steak analogy?

 

[Nesh]

was it movie theater - dvd or was it the dinner/hamburger/steak analogy?

Yeah you are right. If I remember correctly I think it was more like "dining at an expensive restaurant"/"having a family dinner at home"/"fast food" analogy.

 

[aselto]

Actually he said that he could have chosen to show MGS4 on the 360, not that 360 could run the exact same MGS4 we saw and is developed on the PS3's strengths. Nothing more nothing less.

It's only your interpratation of what he said. Of course, a game made specifically for PS3 (that exploits all its strengths) would be hard to port to Xbox 360, but isn't it true vice versa? I doubt he had such obviousness in mind. He specifically said that "hardware is no longer a matter".

But it's an old debate, so I think there's no point going back to it

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Getting to your point, It seemed to be what Kojima was hinting at in both his analogies. Less software but of higher quality.

I don't think that was what he was saying. I think he was talking about targetted games for the platform, not what you get for your money. Thus if you buy a PS3, you don't get less games but of a higher quality - you get a machine who's design lends itself to that 'cinema' experience, whereas the other consoles can't reach that far. Remember he's a developer, looking at what he's writing on these platforms. When you want to produce an ordinary game, you can go multi-platform. When you want to produce the 'cinema' experience, only PS3 will do.

"But like I said, MGS4 is aimed for the movie theatre, it's aimed for the PS3, so the game's scenario and graphics need this theatre-type hardware. It's when a producer has a game that can work on the 'DVD level' that a game will go multiplatform"

The DVD level games will be multiplatform, so PS3 gets them too, alongside the cinema experiences that only PS3 can do.

Again, I'm not agreeing with the man; just discussing semantics of his argument!

 

[TheChefO]

I don't think that was what he was saying. I think he was talking about targetted games for the platform, not what you get for your money. Thus if you buy a PS3, you don't get less games but of a higher quality - you get a machine who's design lends itself to that 'cinema' experience, whereas the other consoles can't reach that far. Remember he's a developer, looking at what he's writing on these platforms. When you want to produce an ordinary game, you can go multi-platform. When you want to produce the 'cinema' experience, only PS3 will do.


The DVD level games will be multiplatform, so PS3 gets them too, alongside the cinema experiences that only PS3 can do.

Again, I'm not agreeing with the man; just discussing semantics of his argument!

So what you're saying is: his opinion was/is such that ps3 would be the only platform capable of running these "Cinema" class games.

To that I would have to laugh my a** off and say: show me.

I'm not saying the man isn't capable. He clearly is and I would love to see MGS4 on xb360. However, I think he was sold a bill of goods while stroking his movie centric ego a bit in the early days to form such an opinion in the first place.

Most(all) devs will give the nod to Cell, and obviously BR is larger than DVD, however the story is a bit different on the gpu side. I understand Kojima is focusing heavily on audio for this title which is great. I think audio can be quite effective for immersion. However, I don't think DVD would be a limiting factor in this regard. Worst case, he would need to take it to multiple disks and add lossless(or slight lossy) compression.

From what I've seen, the cpu impact of audio utilization in xb360 games is less than 5%.

Graphics wise there doesn't seem to be anything RSX could do that Xenos could not replicate. There are however situations where the opposite is true.

Unless Kojima plans to make the most physics heavy game I've ever seen (which even in this case I can't think of a situation where the same game scenario could not be fairly replicated on xenon), I'm going to have to call BS on this one.

We'll see.