JC Keynote talks consoles
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
Another PC dev dislikes the new console CPUs?
*shock*
But seriously, I suppose it is an issue at least in the short-term, but to different degrees depending on developer background. Hopefully it won't present too many barriers in the short term.
The full transcript should be interesting when it's available (as Carmack's speeches always are imo).
*shock*
But seriously, I suppose it is an issue at least in the short-term, but to different degrees depending on developer background. Hopefully it won't present too many barriers in the short term.
The full transcript should be interesting when it's available (as Carmack's speeches always are imo).
Confidence-Man
Newcomer
Ouch.
Carmack stopped being of any importance a long time ago. Apart from the fans hailing him as this "genius". The novelty's gone now.
In the console world, he never did matter.
In the console world, he never did matter.
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Interesting parts:
[Edited to remove repetition.
-Carmack seemed to side with Microsoft more than Sony; seemed to "shrug" off Cell processor for design reasons.
- "There will be the developers that go ahead and have a miserable time and do get good performance out of some of these multi-core approaches, and the Cell is worse than others in some respects here" ]
I had the impression that carmack loved the cell early on...
[Edited to remove repetition.
-Carmack seemed to side with Microsoft more than Sony; seemed to "shrug" off Cell processor for design reasons.
- "There will be the developers that go ahead and have a miserable time and do get good performance out of some of these multi-core approaches, and the Cell is worse than others in some respects here" ]
I had the impression that carmack loved the cell early on...
Mefisutoferesu
Regular
He can't be serious. $100 million? He must be freaking out over the multi-core architecture thinking he'd have to sink in more money than feasible. Besides, you could just license UE3. 1 million + game production... no engine work what-so-ever.
mckmas8808
Legend
serenity said:Novelty might have gone, but his comments echo many concerns over the design choice(s).
And his comments will echo zero if games released look like WarDevil, Killzone, Gundam, and Motorstorm. And 100 million dollars please I thought game production was going to cost upwards to 10 to 15 million dollars.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
Mefisutoferesu said:
Was he talking about cost or earning power? Look at how much GTA:SA, HL2 or Halo2 cost, but they made back a lot more.
I'd take carmack's words on these nextgen consoles more seriously if he'd actually developed a title for them first before speaking out on them. Last console he made a game for was the freakin atari jaguar for chrissakes, and that one was multiprocessor out the wazoo (three fully programmable processors, one semi-programmable, one hardwired) and he never expressed any hate for it whatsoever. Quite the opposite, he liked the CRY framebuffer mode, and all he had to complain about publically were a couple hardware design flaws that limited real-world performance compared to theoretical peak.
I'd say he is the archetype of the lazy-ass PC programmer. He goes for solutions that work without creating too much hassle for him personally, and he doesn't like to optimize n shit. Case in point, he tore out the bones-based inverse kinematics animation system he was designing for quake3 and replaced it with standard keyframe animation, undoubtedly because he could just copy & paste it out of quake 2, or rewrite with minor modifications and not have to care about getting his bones working properly. Leave it all up to the animator to make characters move the way they're supposed to...
The guy's smart, and he's successful. He doesn't seem to like challenges though, not if he can avoid them by punting off his code to a big fat single-threaded, out-of-order CPU qith large caches running at a high clockrate. A guy like that should be nobody's hero. He ought to be respected, but not worshipped.
I'd say he is the archetype of the lazy-ass PC programmer. He goes for solutions that work without creating too much hassle for him personally, and he doesn't like to optimize n shit. Case in point, he tore out the bones-based inverse kinematics animation system he was designing for quake3 and replaced it with standard keyframe animation, undoubtedly because he could just copy & paste it out of quake 2, or rewrite with minor modifications and not have to care about getting his bones working properly. Leave it all up to the animator to make characters move the way they're supposed to...
The guy's smart, and he's successful. He doesn't seem to like challenges though, not if he can avoid them by punting off his code to a big fat single-threaded, out-of-order CPU qith large caches running at a high clockrate. A guy like that should be nobody's hero. He ought to be respected, but not worshipped.
torrent of the video:
http://www.filerush.com/download.php?target=QuakeConCarmackKeynote.zip
http://www.filerush.com/download.php?target=QuakeConCarmackKeynote.zip
blakjedi said:
He's been speaking out against multi-core for some time now. He's not even too keen on extra physics chips.
He's obviously in a not-very-happy place coming from a PC background, and more specifically, trying to bring a PC codebase (Quake4) over to one of these systems. He's not alone in that regard - while Gabe Newell is advising to throw out your old codebase, Carmack doesn't have that luxury right now
- many other devs are in a similar position and have voiced similar concerns. I think it'll be easier for others, particularly devs with PS2 experience, though that's not to say it'll be a walk in the park for them either..just easier.It may hurt PC ports in the short-term, though. Hopefully they'll do enough to keep the games smooth, or the chips handle the code well enough to keep them smooth enough.
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Guden Oden said:I'd take carmack's words on these nextgen consoles more seriously if he'd actually developed a title for them first before speaking out on them. Last console he made a game for was the freakin atari jaguar for chrissakes, and that one was multiprocessor out the wazoo (three fully programmable processors, one semi-programmable, one hardwired) and he never expressed any hate for it whatsoever. Quite the opposite, he liked the CRY framebuffer mode, and all he had to complain about publically were a couple hardware design flaws that limited real-world performance compared to theoretical peak.
I'd say he is the archetype of the lazy-ass PC programmer. He goes for solutions that work without creating too much hassle for him personally, and he doesn't like to optimize n shit. Case in point, he tore out the bones-based inverse kinematics animation system he was designing for quake3 and replaced it with standard keyframe animation, undoubtedly because he could just copy & paste it out of quake 2, or rewrite with minor modifications and not have to care about getting his bones working properly. Leave it all up to the animator to make characters move the way they're supposed to...
The guy's smart, and he's successful. He doesn't seem to like challenges though, not if he can avoid them by punting off his code to a big fat single-threaded, out-of-order CPU qith large caches running at a high clockrate. A guy like that should be nobody's hero. He ought to be respected, but not worshipped.
Totally agree.
I agree regarding your comments on PS2 programmers probably being able to get the most out of the new hardware... I seriously think that the developers who have worked their buts off tapping every ounce of power from the PS2 hardware, will have a large advantage when they start to really get into their programming for the PS3 …..Titanio said:He's been speaking out against multi-core for some time now. He's not even too keen on extra physics chips.
He's obviously in a not-very-happy place coming from a PC background, and more specifically, trying to bring a PC codebase (Quake4) over to one of these systems. He's not alone in that regard - while Gabe Newell is advising to throw out your old codebase, Carmack doesn't have that luxury right now
It may hurt PC ports in the short-term, though. Hopefully they'll do enough to keep the games smooth, or the chips handle the code well enough to keep them smooth enough.
in fact, I have a theory that the devs saying that PS3 & Xbox 360 are similar in power are those who have not had extensive experience programming for PS2 .. those hardcore PS2 programmers are the most likely ones, IMO to say the PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox 360 ............
At some point everyone will be using multi core . Even amd and intel are now in the high end and mid end putting out multicore chips . Amd may even have 3 core and 4 core by the end of 2006 . Multicore is a pain to develop for but it will hae to start happening soon .
he is just going to have to bite the bullet and go multi core .
As for game costs i'm sure by the end of the generation one or two games will hit close to that 100 million mark. Art it seems is now the major cost , not the engine it self and the prettier the games the more expensive they will get
TO Guden Oden . His engines are running on next gen systems (quake wars ) So i'm sure he has looked into them esp since his next engine should be finished around halfway through this generation .
he is just going to have to bite the bullet and go multi core .
As for game costs i'm sure by the end of the generation one or two games will hit close to that 100 million mark. Art it seems is now the major cost , not the engine it self and the prettier the games the more expensive they will get
TO Guden Oden . His engines are running on next gen systems (quake wars ) So i'm sure he has looked into them esp since his next engine should be finished around halfway through this generation .
I agree .... many people don't know that World of WarCraft's development budget was $40-50 million [source: http://www.wclegacy.com/sectionentry.php?contentid=42 ]jvd said:
Some other comments from another article:
http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=1068
Hopefully the vid will be mirrored soon..I guess it'll be tomorrow before I see it.
http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=1068
Hopefully the vid will be mirrored soon..I guess it'll be tomorrow before I see it.
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