Japanese Mag: Wii vs PS3

[Phil]

True, and yet, there is plenty indication that the DS market and the PlayStation market are two different ones. For that argument to play any significant factor, I'm assuming TheChefO is drawing a line that consumers that will be choosing a Wii over a PS3 for pricing reasons are automatically interested in DS type games on TV?

Can we realistically assume that

a.) People are tired of more sophisticated/complicated games (the direction Xb360 & PS3 are taking) and are willing to go back to simpler games (Wii/DS)?

or do we better expect that

b.) The market are two different ones and that Wii is targeting a market they are already successfull with their handhelds and as such, Wii would be better seen as a complimentary purchase to either Xb360 or PS3 rather than as an alternative?


Looking at the direction Nintendo is taking with Wii, I still fail to see how they are a direct competitor to Sony's market. In fact, the more I think about it, the more it seems reasonable to me to suggest that with Nintendo distancing themselfs with more radical decisions that they are less and less a competitor but rather seeking out new ways to open up a new market currently not interested in PS3/Xbox360 (I'm talking about people not into video games or play the occasional solitaire on the PC). I see the relationship Wii / PS3 to be no different than DS / PSP: Different machines striving for different experiences to a different market.

 

[fearsomepirate]

You guys who think that homebrew is going to cause some sort of massive upswing in PSP sales might need to ask yourself how many non-geeks will actually care. It's like predicting that Linux will overtake home PC because it comes with so many useful programming tools.

Wii is a direct competitor to Xbox and Playstation because it's competing for the same dollars. It needs to offer customers a greater perceived value. Nintendo is gambling that using the Wii, they can create a library of software so compelling that having access to it for somewhere between $199 and $249 is perceived as a much better deal than having access to a big pile of shader ALUs for somewhere between $339 and $399.

 

[quest55720]

True, and yet, there is plenty indication that the DS market and the PlayStation market are two different ones. For that argument to play any significant factor, I'm assuming TheChefO is drawing a line that consumers that will be choosing a Wii over a PS3 for pricing reasons are automatically interested in DS type games on TV?

Can we realistically assume that

a.) People are tired of more sophisticated/complicated games (the direction Xb360 & PS3 are taking) and are willing to go back to simpler games (Wii/DS)?

or do we better expect that

b.) The market are two different ones and that Wii is targeting a market they are already successfull with their handhelds and as such, Wii would be better seen as a complimentary purchase to either Xb360 or PS3 rather than as an alternative?


Looking at the direction Nintendo is taking with Wii, I still fail to see how they are a direct competitor to Sony's market. In fact, the more I think about it, the more it seems reasonable to me to suggest that with Nintendo distancing themselfs with more radical decisions that they are less and less a competitor but rather seeking out new ways to open up a new market currently not interested in PS3/Xbox360 (I'm talking about people not into video games or play the occasional solitaire on the PC). I see the relationship Wii / PS3 to be no different than DS / PSP: Different machines striving for different experiences to a different market.

The reason the WII is a competitor to the PS3 in japan in my mind is. First pricing the wii will be any where from 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the PS3. Second I think the unique gaming experience is something the japan market really really loves I think they pride themselves on having different tastes than the other 2 major markets. You can get a PS3 or Xbox 360 and play the same games you did the last decade with better graphics. On the other hand if you want a new and different gaming experience the only place to go is the Wii. Third I think because of different variables the Wii will ship in much greater quanitys than the PS3 for the first 6-12 months the systems are out. There will be a much greater opertunity to own a Wii vs a PS3. Fourth while it might be only the hand held market nintendo is riding a monster wave of good will and hype from the NDS and their excellent E3 showing. The word from the main stream and gaming media has been nothing but positive and glowing about everything nintedo. Lastly nintendo has a great chance to lure new customers to the market for a console. Just like the NDS has increased the market the Wii can do the very same thing. The Wii could be very well the first console purchase of those who bought a NDS for games like brain training and nintendogs. While sony will be fighting for only the existing market because that is what the PS3 is aimed at.

 

[PiNkY]

Personally, I am not too surprised. Wii is probably going to launch with a new zelda and mario at half the price of ps3. Now, I mean, I already have my PS3 on preorder, but lets be honest about the launch lineup. Without Lair, I am not terribly excited about what I have seen so far. That probably won't stop most of us from buying a PS3 at launch, because lets face it, we didn't let PS2's launch lineup stop us then. But for the more casual crowd, Wii or 360 may well be were its for this christmas.

 

[TheChefO]

You may have to explain the logic in comparing DS game sales that retail on average at half-the-price of PlayStation2 games... I really don't see the connection between PS3 vs Wii by comparing PS2 vs DS...

I wasn't touching on the price issue - merely the types of games which the Japanese are interested in enough to buy. However as you have pointed out, they also may appreciate cheaper games and systems as well. In this case, all signs point to Wii in Japan.


Shifty - Your point with eye toy is valid, however with it being a add-on it will limit it's impact as it is not central to the system. If they were to package it with ps3 I'd say they could have something special there. Regarding cost of development, I'd still say developing on Wii should be cheaper as from what has been said in interviews, the hardware is just an extension from GC which anyone who developed for GC last gen will be ready to go on Wii and I imagine the dev kits are a bit cheaper as well . In addition I imagine Sony would not be as willing to support these games early on which do not take advantage of ps3 hardware and showing it's advantages in software to those questioning the high price.

In all I'd say Wii will take Japan. In other news, EA is up beat on Wii as well ...

 

[one]

If DS and PS2 compete with each other, what's the chance of the competition between Wii (15,000 - 25,000 yen) and DS Lite (16,800 yen)?

BTW, I'm more curious about PS2 vs Wii than PS3 vs Wii.

 

[TheChefO]

BTW, I'm more curious about PS2 vs Wii than PS3 vs Wii.

Good question, how long does old hardware sell in Japan? They seem to be on the cutting edge of new and different but that is just my perception from across the sea. :smile:

 

[pc999]

Looking at the direction Nintendo is taking with Wii, I still fail to see how they are a direct competitor to Sony's market. In fact, the more I think about it, the more it seems reasonable to me to suggest that with Nintendo distancing themselfs with more radical decisions that they are less and less a competitor but rather seeking out new ways to open up a new market currently not interested in PS3/Xbox360 (I'm talking about people not into video games or play the occasional solitaire on the PC). I see the relationship Wii / PS3 to be no different than DS / PSP: Different machines striving for different experiences to a different market.

I dont think one can see this that simple, but there is people who will never buy a Wii but will a PS3/360, there will be those who will buy a wii and a PS3/360, there will be those who will buy a wii but not a PS3/360 because they find it better and there will be people who wil buy a wii but will never buy a PS3/360. There is 2 sectors here they are direct competitors, the question is how big they are?

Personally, I am not too surprised. Wii is probably going to launch with a new zelda and mario at half the price of ps3. Now, I mean, I already have my PS3 on preorder, but lets be honest about the launch lineup. Without Lair, I am not terribly excited about what I have seen so far. That probably won't stop most of us from buying a PS3 at launch, because lets face it, we didn't let PS2's launch lineup stop us then. But for the more casual crowd, Wii or 360 may well be were its for this christmas.

I will never understand why someone buy a console before there is games that they want to play.

If DS and PS2 compete with each other, what's the chance of the competition between Wii (15,000 - 25,000 yen) and DS Lite (16,800 yen)?

BTW, I'm more curious about PS2 vs Wii than PS3 vs Wii.

How long is expected PS2 to live, and how it is supossed to do in SW?

 

[Phil]

The reason the WII is a competitor to the PS3 in japan in my mind is. First pricing the wii will be any where from 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the PS3. Second I think the unique gaming experience is something the japan market really really loves I think they pride themselves on having different tastes than the other 2 major markets. You can get a PS3 or Xbox 360 and play the same games you did the last decade with better graphics. On the other hand if you want a new and different gaming experience the only place to go is the Wii. Third I think because of different variables the Wii will ship in much greater quanitys than the PS3 for the first 6-12 months the systems are out. There will be a much greater opertunity to own a Wii vs a PS3. Fourth while it might be only the hand held market nintendo is riding a monster wave of good will and hype from the NDS and their excellent E3 showing. The word from the main stream and gaming media has been nothing but positive and glowing about everything nintedo. Lastly nintendo has a great chance to lure new customers to the market for a console. Just like the NDS has increased the market the Wii can do the very same thing. The Wii could be very well the first console purchase of those who bought a NDS for games like brain training and nintendogs. While sony will be fighting for only the existing market because that is what the PS3 is aimed at.

I agree, and yet - all that you really did was name reasons why Wii will most likely stand in its own light and be successfull in being a cheap, simple and innovative console. The point however that I am challenging is, are these reasons going to make it an alternative?

An alternative in that sense that exisiting PS2 owners in Japan (for a large part people that dont' own a DS or a Nintendo handheld) will be more interested in Wii over PS3 and switch ship?

If the PS2 userbase and the Nintendo handheld market would be one and the same, I would be worried if I were Sony - as it has been the last few years, the handheld and the console market have been standing on its own, each targeting a different audience. Now that Nintendo is taking a radical new approach to gaming, I am anything but convinces their success is directly at the expense of the PlayStation market. I'm sure there will be the occasional consumer outthere that will might jump ship, but will it be enough to play a signicant role?

With the price range Nintendo is playing with, I could very well see Wii become a nice addition to either a PS3 or an Xbox360 - I don't see it as an alternative since they are really trying to achieve two different things - a different experience althogether. These discussions about how Wii will be number 1 remind me somewhat of the talks we had on PSP vs DS. While many still clinge to the idea that these two handhelds are direct competitors, I really just see two different machies targeting different experiences resulting in two different audiences.

What's better, a BMW 750 limousine or a Bugatti Veyron? IMO, they're two different products doing exceptionally well what they're designed to and ultimately not directly comparable. I see the situation DS / PSP or even Wii / PS3 as anything but different.

 

[TheChefO]

I agree, and yet - all that you really did was name reasons why Wii will most likely stand in its own light and be successfull in being a cheap, simple and innovative console. The point however that I am challenging is, are these reasons going to make it an alternative?

An alternative in that sense that exisiting PS2 owners in Japan (for a large part people that dont' own a DS or a Nintendo handheld) will be more interested in Wii over PS3 and switch ship?

If the PS2 userbase and the Nintendo handheld market would be one and the same, I would be worried if I were Sony - as it has been the last few years, the handheld and the console market have been standing on its own, each targeting a different audience. Now that Nintendo is taking a radical new approach to gaming, I am anything but convinces their success is directly at the expense of the PlayStation market. I'm sure there will be the occasional consumer outthere that will might jump ship, but will it be enough to play a signicant role?

With the price range Nintendo is playing with, I could very well see Wii become a nice addition to either a PS3 or an Xbox360 - I don't see it as an alternative since they are really trying to achieve two different things - a different experience althogether. These discussions about how Wii will be number 1 remind me somewhat of the talks we had on PSP vs DS. While many still clinge to the idea that these two handhelds are direct competitors, I really just see two different machies targeting different experiences resulting in two different audiences.

What's better, a BMW 750 limousine or a Bugatti Veyron? IMO, they're two different products doing exceptionally well what they're designed to and ultimately not directly comparable. I see the situation DS / PSP or even Wii / PS3 as anything but different.

Phil - You have to take the market in consideration. I will not profess to be an Expert on Japanese tastes but from what polls I have seen and from what little I do know about the Japanese, they seem to favor innovative and different products. Ps3 is new and different sure, but not to the extent Wii is. Also when one factors in the very high price of the console it becomes a matter of "well I can't afford ps3, So what should I get? ... Wii has some interesting looking games and 360 well ... Wii has some interesting looking games"

If ps3 were priced the same as ps2 was then it would not be as much of an issue. But with this pricing negative and the Wii's positives that it becomes a potential replacement for "Playstation" in Japan. Agreed the experience is very different and marketed as such. However I would argue this "different" market is very Japaenes centric. Regardless of how different their target markets are, I feel J-devs will take these innovative and cheap to produce games to wii because of it's lower price which I'm guessing will turn into a larger installed base. This userbase will then demand the Final Fantasy's and Dragon Quest's. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually got an exclusive or two.

 

[fearsomepirate]

While many still clinge to the idea that these two handhelds are direct competitors, I really just see two different machies targeting different experiences resulting in two different audiences.

The problem with your theory is that Sony likely wanted to sell way more PSPs in Japan than they are now. What do you think is the #1 reason that PSP sales aren't higher than they are?

 

[Jesus2006]

Japanese Amazon preorder / newsletter subscription

 

[Angelcurio]

[/IMG]

Japanese Amazon preorder / newsletter subscription

You beat me to it, but there is still more

According to Amazon Japan:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos...ref=amb_left-1_45150706_1/249-3015355-9656319

Another Japanese site is also tracking both consoles:

https://www.tsutaya.co.jp/tol/enqmaker/enq.pl?id=ga_psvswi

I must admit that i am impressed

 

[darkblu]

Good question, how long does old hardware sell in Japan? They seem to be on the cutting edge of new and different but that is just my perception from across the sea.

i think you would be surprised how much old hw sells in NA either

ndp stats for june

NDS - 593,000
PS2 - 312,000
360 - 277,000
PSP - 221,000
GBA - 189,000
GCN - 51,000
XBX - 24,000


observe how the latest-n-greatest hw (x360 & psp) fare agains both older & 'less-advanced' hw (ps2, gba & nds, with the rest not withstanding)

 

[Arwin]

ps2, gba & nds

Ehm, I know that the NDS isn't the most advanced hardware ever, but it still ridiculous to classify it with the PS2 and GBA rather than with the PSP and 360.

 

[KimB]

One potential systematic that may be affecting the current numbers is that the #1 thing that is going for the Wii is its control interface, which is something that people are going to want to try out before buying. That means that there may well be many more people excited about the Wii, but only a few of them would consider pre-ordering without first checking out the totally new and different control setup.

 

[darkblu]

Ehm, I know that the NDS isn't the most advanced hardware ever, but it still ridiculous to classify it with the PS2 and GBA rather than with the PSP and 360.

in terms of hip-ness - yes, nds sits with the new kids on the block. in relative performance terms, though, i don't consider it ridiculous to compare the nds-psp pair to a console from the last generation vis-a-vis, say, the 360. eveybody and their dog knows that in 'bogo-flops' the psp wipes the floor with the nds (alas the public apparently do not give a rat's ass). same with ps2 and x360.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

One potential systematic that may be affecting the current numbers is that the #1 thing that is going for the Wii is its control interface, which is something that people are going to want to try out before buying. That means that there may well be many more people excited about the Wii, but only a few of them would consider pre-ordering without first checking out the totally new and different control setup.

Yep. It's very much an unknown, and where we're getting different statistics on interest. On the one hand, PS3 preorders exceed Wii preorders. On the other hand, 'interest' seems weighted towards Wii based on some polls we've seen. Chances are people are more interested to see what the Wii is about, but whether that interest is transformed into hard sales is a question no poll can answer. Of the people actually looking to by, it seems as though the majority want to go with what they know. But as has been said many a time, a launch hardware will sell out to the techno-savvy hardcores. I expect preorders of PS3 to be high, as everyone who wants one knows they'll have to preorder!

To date the polls and other stats have been so small and non-generalized, they provide very little info on the markets at large.

 

[Arwin]

in terms of hip-ness - yes, nds sits with the new kids on the block. in relative performance terms, though, i don't consider it ridiculous to compare the nds-psp pair to a console from the last generation vis-a-vis, say, the 360. eveybody and their dog knows that in 'bogo-flops' the psp wipes the floor with the nds (alas the public apparently do not give a rat's ass). same with ps2 and x360.

Hey, I have two PSPs and zero DS ... but other people have two DS'es (DS, DS Lite), and while the DS isn't nearly as powerful, it's still very much a modern device and while not as powerful as the PSP, it's still quite powerful. Besides, a lot of its power comes from it having novel features such as two screens, one touchable, a microphone, and wireless capabilities ...

Last gen in terms of handheld was the GBA, and you just cannot pare the DS with that generation.

 

[one]

How long is expected PS2 to live, and how it is supossed to do in SW?

I think PS2 can live through 2007. As for Wii and PS2, this Dragon Ball game is for Wii and PS2. With Wii you can control characters with special moves.
http://dbzs-neo.jp/

Except for games designed from the ground up with the Wii controller in mind, I suspect PS2/Wii multiplat games will be produced for a while.