Is there something that CELL can still do better than modern CPU/GPU

[liolio]

I would love to see another Cell rendition, I remember when I first heard of it years ago I was waiting for it like it was the messiah, anyway.

Based on this post from Mfa and plenty of nAo, I wonder if it would make sense to IBM to give up on compatibility if they are to release a Cell 2.0.

 

[upnorthsox]

Outsourced to TSMC and may be IBM.

Only IBM, East Fishkill. While it's interesting that Sony is ramping back into chip production, this has little to do with Cell as they were never produced there.

 

[patsu]

More from xbitlabs.com:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/...k_Semiconductor_Fab_from_Toshiba_Report.html#

Acquiring the plant will double Sony's CMOS image sensor output capacity to the equivalent of about 40 thousand 300m silicon wafers a month, according to the report. This is projected to allow the company to reduce manufacturing costs of sensors and better compete against companies like Micron Technology, Samsung Electronics and others.

According to the article, the plant was used to produce 65nm Cell. Not sure if the SpursEngine is produced there.

 

[macabre]

Demand for Sonys camera sensors is pretty high I guess. Many new low- and midrange DSLRs as well as some System cams use the Sony APS-C sensors. And there might be coming more , Olympus`sensor deal with Panasonic ends at the end of this month .

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Cool, all of my digital cameras have been made by Sony. May get another one in the next year or two.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

I would love to see another Cell rendition, I remember when I first heard of it years ago I was waiting for it like it was the messiah, anyway.

Based on this post from Mfa and plenty of nAo, I wonder if it would make sense to IBM to give up on compatibility if they are to release a Cell 2.0.

Moving forward, both Sony Electronics and Network Products will face even more pressure from major vendors (from compact PCs to pads to phones and pods) in the mobile space and living room.

These platforms all have matured OS and hardware platform. If they can't unify their product platform, then they may face an up-hill battle. Not sure if giving up on compatibility is a good thing in this context. Chasing solely after CPU (or even GPU) performance exclusively may not make sense in the long run. Consoles will always be capped by PC performance, and e.g., MS has Kinect to help put compact/closed PCs in the living room soon.

 

[jeff_rigby]

More from xbitlabs.com:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/...k_Semiconductor_Fab_from_Toshiba_Report.html#
According to the article, the plant was used to produce 65nm Cell. Not sure if the SpursEngine is produced there.

Acquiring the plant will double Sony's CMOS image sensor output capacity to the equivalent of about 40 thousand 300m silicon wafers a month, according to the report. This is projected to allow the company to reduce manufacturing costs of sensors and better compete against companies like Micron Technology, Samsung Electronics and others.

I assume there are translation errors 300m has to be 300mm and 40 thousand 300mm wafers has to be 40 thousand cmos elements a month. IF it's 40,000 300 mm wafers and each can have several hundred sensor then the plant would produce a massive amount of sensors each month...would this exceed world wide demand?

 

[patsu]

Related news articles mentioned Exmor R CMOS sensors:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1010/10100702sonycmossensorphone.asp

Sony first announced the development of "Exmor R" on Jun, 2008. "Exmor R" has been incorporated in Sony's digital imaging products since 2009, and its use in other products has continued to expand. "Exmor R" CMOS image sensor features Sony's independently developed back-illuminated structure, realizing significantly higher sensitivity as well as lower noise. In this back-illuminated CMOS image sensor, light is directed onto the silicon substrate from behind, allowing light to be used with a level of efficiency not possible with conventional front-illuminated structures.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/sections/news/Details.aspx?NewsId=29107

Sony will also invest approximately 100 billion yen in Sony Semiconductor Kyushu Corporation's Nagasaki Technology Center (Nagasaki TEC) in the fiscal year ending March 31, 2012, to increase the production capacity for CMOS image sensors.

This investment plan includes (i) the transfer of the semiconductor fabrication facilities from Toshiba (previously mentioned) , (ii) refurbishment of a part of the above semiconductor fabrication facilities into new wafer lines capable of manufacturing CMOS image sensors, and (iii) refurbishment and equipment of a part of production facilities at Nagasaki TEC Building 3 for wafer processing to differentiate Sony's CMOS image sensors with Sony's independently developed technologies. Through the investment plan, Sony will utilize a governmental subsidy (Japanese) to be provided by the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry in Japan.

Sony believes that these investments will strengthen the company's production capacity for "Exmor" and "Exmor R" CMOS image sensors in order to meet increased demand from markets such as those for smartphones and Digital Still Cameras.

In addition to the approximately 40 billion yen investment in Sony Semiconductor Kyushu Corporation's Kumamoto Technology Center (announced on September 1, 2010), Sony's total production capacity for CCD and CMOS image sensors will increase from the current level of approximately 25,000 wafers per month to approximately 50,000 wafers per month by the end of March 2012.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I assume there are translation errors 300m has to be 300mm and 40 thousand 300mm wafers has to be 40 thousand cmos elements a month. IF it's 40,000 300 mm wafers and each can have several hundred sensor then the plant would produce a massive amount of sensors each month...would this exceed world wide demand?

30 million digital cameras sold in 2006, in North America alone... Add in CMOS sensors for high-end mobile phones and webcams, there's clearly lots of demand.

 

[Mobius1aic]

Sony does own the rights to the specific Cell BE design in PS3 no? How likely (and ironic?)is it that Nintendo could acquire either the present Cell or a derivative of it for the Wii's successor? BC could be partially native with the Power based command core (I assume), and the large number of studios now versed in Cell architecture could be levied to provide titles to a new system without them having to completely relearn their skills. Assuming Cell derived/related design will go into the PS4, it would make multi-platforming easier for developers. I would still assume that a Wii 2 could or would sit half or a full "generation" behind the PS4 and Xbox 720, depending on one's point of view of what a generation is, but I think technologies among the next round of systems will be more homogeneous.

 

[patsu]

IMHO, I think Nintendo is more for ease of programming and gameplay. Would be very surprised they take an interest in Cell at all.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Yeah, I'm not seeing any benefit for Nintendo in using Cell.

Basically, it appears at this point that Sony is the only one with a vested interested in Cell. IBM appears to be moving in the direction of migrating certain things from Cell to PowerPC and dropping Cell R&D.

It's possible that Sony, faced with being the only one doing R&D on Cell, may decide to move to PowerPC for PS4 or something else.

Regards,
SB

 

[jonabbey]

Yeah, I'm not seeing any benefit for Nintendo in using Cell.

Basically, it appears at this point that Sony is the only one with a vested interested in Cell. IBM appears to be moving in the direction of migrating certain things from Cell to PowerPC and dropping Cell R&D.

And who knows what that means. A ring architecture like Sandy Bridge took from Cell? 8 SPUs on board for compatibility but all new engineering dedicated to traditional PowerPC cores? SPU instruction set compatibility in a new VMX-style unit?

It's possible that Sony, faced with being the only one doing R&D on Cell, may decide to move to PowerPC for PS4 or something else.

It's hard to believe that IBM would have piped up about working with Cell tech for the next console generation unless they had Sony on board. A couple of years ago there were all these rumors about Sony evaluating Larrabee for PS4, but that seemed to have been shot down.

If they had enough interest in innovative tech to be looking at Larrabee for the PS4, one presumes they would have still been motivated to keep what Cell gave them.

Only another couple of years till we find out, though..

 

[patsu]

30 million digital cameras sold in 2006, in North America alone... Add in CMOS sensors for high-end mobile phones and webcams, there's clearly lots of demand.

Yap… and 3D cameras like this one Sony announced today:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2011/01/05/sony-launches-incredible-3d-consumer-camcorder/

Say hello to the most advanced consumer camcorder Sony has ever released – the HDR-TD10 “double full HD” 3D camcorder, launched at CES 2011. This is one serious performer, and features dual Sony G lenses, dual Exmor R sensors, and dual BIONZ image processors.

We'll have to see if that 3D PSEye rumor is true...