Is Sony losing its publishing moxie?

[Deleted member 11852]

If we take 1886 as an example, then I'm just flabbergasted by what a missed opportunity this is. God knows the budget of this game, and all they could come up with was a game that just isn't very good. Good enough, for some, but even they must think they were not going to set the world alight with the game part of their 'game'.

Yes, it's hard to understand how they managed to produce what they did, especially partnering with Sony Santa Monica. Third person shooters aren't new, there are plenty of games that exist as examples of what works and what doesn't. They seem to have take many of the gameplay design elements that I really dislike and put them all in one game

 

[Cjail]

If we take 1886 as an example, then I'm just flabbergasted by what a missed opportunity this is. God knows the budget of this game, and all they could come up with was a game that just isn't very good. Good enough, for some, but even they must think they were not going to set the world alight with the game part of their 'game'.

You speak if there was a recipe, a well known way to make a "good game", whatever that means.
Big budget also doesn't guarantee that you will achieve the quality that customers want/desire/expect.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You speak if there was a recipe, a well known way to make a "good game", whatever that means. Big budget also doesn't guarantee that you will achieve the quality that customers want/desire/expect.

You're absolutely correct, there is no formula that guarantees success but they've made some odd choices given we have four decades of gaming to draw on from what people do and do not like.

• QTEs can have their place, they work well in Shadow of Mordor but they are infrequent - you messed up in combat, you have a QTE to save your arse.
• Yanking gameplay away for some story exposition (cut scenes) is something that needs very carefull balance. I know the vision was to blend story (cutscenes) and generally together but I figured there would at least be a deference to accepting that long cutscenes rarely work and generally aren't appreciated.
• Lack of diversity and development in the gameplay. It doesn't need to be an RPG but static unchanging gameplay mechanics belong in yesterday where shooting is your only mechanic.
• Crap stealth. The UN should intervene when game developers insist on inserting unnecessary stealth sections in games when it's baaaaaaad.

 

[London Geezer]

You speak if there was a recipe, a well known way to make a "good game", whatever that means.
Big budget also doesn't guarantee that you will achieve the quality that customers want/desire/expect.

I'm not saying it's easy. But when there is a vision, and that vision is to make an entertaining and fun game, then in capable hands that game will be fun and entertaining. The vision for 1886 was to make the prettiest 7-hour movie, literally it goes pixel-deep. Something other games have done too, but at least they had characters we cared about, gameplay parts that were fun and stories we were gripped to.
Huge missed opportunity, in my eyes. And yes I'm talking from the flood of reviews that basically say the same thing, I have not played the game.

 

[Cjail]

@DSoup

You speaks of choices but who took them?
Can we blame/thank Sony entirely for The Order!?
As publishers they no doubt had some control over the project but RAD is still an independent studio so I don't think that Sony had total control over the game development.
Maybe it's RAD that is to blame/thank, maybe they lacked the moxie!

 

[Sigfried1977]

What sets AAA developers apart is nailing the gameplay mechanics, nailing the characters, nailing the story and above all, nailing the pacing for the duration of the game. Some flashy technical wizardry doesn't hurt none either.

If that's really what AAA means, then Ubisoft hasn't made a single AAA game since, well, forever. The likes of Watch_Dogs, AC Unity or Far Cry 4 fullfiled very few if any of the above reqirements.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I would place the blame on both the risk-averse nature of the industry as a whole, and the fact that we're at the start of a new generational cycle.

This time last gen, what had Sony produced for PS3? I remeber, as i was there, lamenting that there was not much available and the quality of Sony produced games varied wildy. Until ND came along with Uncharted 1, most of Sony's first party games produced prior to that weren't much cop. I understand that part of that was due to dev issues with the PS3, but generally I don't think many devs tend to put out quality games in such an early part of a console generational cycle. Not just Sony's.

Look at other publishers? Even new iterations of well trodden series have been average to some of the worst of their respective series (e.g. COD: Ghosts, BF3/4, AC:U). I can appreciate that whilst devs are still trying to get to grips with building their new engine technology on a brand new platform, actually developing a game simultanteously, with major schedule pressures, and it actually turning out good is a tall task.

I think if we look back a year from now, we'll have a totally different outlook on Sony's, MS's and basically every other publisher's AAA console game output.

The biggest factors that I think are a problem ths gen are the rising dev costs and so increased risk on these projects (i.e. many more adventurous ideas won't even get greenlit).

It will literally take major declines in the sales of all the big staple franchises industry-wdie before we see many more AAA-budget new IP from publishers, including Sony.

On the other hand, I look at games like The Tomorrow Children, RimE, Bloodborne, Until Dawn, WilD and a whole load of other exclusive Japanese stuff Sony has coming to PS4 in 2015 and I honestly cannot say that I'm dissappointed by Sony's publishing output. But that's me *shrug*

 

[Deleted member 86764]

If we go even farther back we will see even more ridiculous concepts...

Dragons that spat bubbles

Easy now, don't ruin my childhood. Bub and Bob can stay out of this discussion.

Best. Game. Ever.

 

[Prophecy2k]

If that's really what AAA means, then Ubisoft hasn't made a single AAA game since, well, forever. The likes of Watch_Dogs, AC Unity or Far Cry 4 fullfiled very few if any of the above reqirements.

FC4 was excellent and nailed every of the abovementioned criteria imho (and clearly the critics agree). I'm sure an arguement can be made for the mechanics of the other games at least.

Ultimately though, AAA if only really about production budget. Large teams of devs making games which comply to certain focus-tested popular game design tickboxes, massive marketing campaigns and gaming media hype.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I believe it is also partly the gamers to blame. We have grown. We want something closer to realism which at the same time maintains a unique identity.
These things dont handshake very well. We have experienced tons in the real world so, trying to mimic the realism and offer something "with unique character" we havent experienced is a challenge itself.
In the old days we were more tolerant. We were getting all kinds of games like Wipeout, Crash Bandicoot, Ico, Mark of Kri, Parappa the Rapper, Jak and Daxter etc and feel satisfied with their creative approach. If we go even farther back we will see even more ridiculous concepts.
A silly looking knight that was able to shoot infinite spears while wearing just his boxers
A funny boy that shot rainbows
Snowmen in jeans
A Kiwi that threw arrows
Dragons that spat bubbles
A jungle kid that threw hammers but was also able to get a skateboard and a helmet by braking an egg
etc

Wipeout HD was a piece of art. A perfect Wipeout I can say. But people were losing their interest since probably Wipeout Fusion. Sunset Overdrive is another great game but although people think its good they dont feel like buying it. But why? They try to target a mature audience that are more attracted to realism and more down to earth scenarios these days.
On the other hand Skylanders and Mario games maintain their old character but manage to sell. Why? They dont try to offer a mature experience with an art style that doesnt appear that mature.

I don't think the audience changed. They just grew. And the audience grew because it HAD to to be able to support the increased development budgets for development at a given level of grahical fidelity.

The original gaming audience that grew up with Amegas and Commodores, NES's and Megadrives, SNES's and N64 still eat up the more crazy gameplay concepts. We're all the guys online complaining about how gaming is now too conservative and every game is a shooter.

It's the generations after us that expanded the market, whose childhoods were raised on YouTube, Facebook and Teletubbies, who can't seem to identify as freely with more abstract and fantastical concepts. These gamers want realism, together with the vast swathes of former PC gamers that were inducted into console gaming when the FPS and shooter genre became popular on consoles.

The expanded market and more casual gamers have more conservative tastes and thus want less creativity in their games in terms of concepts. I would also say that the wane of console gaming in the east and rise in the west also helped shape current gaming landscape in terms of popular game genres and gameplay concepts.

Tl;dr:
Essentially, gaming went more mainstream because the audience became more mainstream, because the latter was forced to expand to prop up the ballooning dev costs. Hence why we heard so much about games "streamlining" last gen, and being designed to be more "accessible" or have a "wider appeal", because the the economics of the indusry necessitated it.

 

[Sigfried1977]

FC4 nailed characters, story and especially pacing? And even if I did agree, that still leaves Watch_Dogs and AC Unity, and both of them failed miserably (there's no existing universe in which Aiden Pierce would be considered a good character) in those departments (Unity also royally cocked up the gameplay category on top of all the above). They are still very much considered AAA regardless. Just like a thoroughly sucky film like Transformers is still considered a blockbuster.

For me AAA now these days simply means that an awful lot of money has been spent on inoffensive superficiality in order to reach the largest possible audience.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

@DSoup

You speaks of choices but who took them? Can we blame/thank Sony entirely for The Order!?

Does it matter who, I agree with London-boy. Whoever was making the critical game design and creative choices, I feel The Order was a missed opportunity.

If that's really what AAA means, then Ubisoft hasn't made a single AAA game since, well, forever. The likes of Watch_Dogs, AC Unity or Far Cry 4 fullfiled very few if any of the above reqirements.

There is an accepted definition for AAA. But I said AAA developers, not AAA game and for me there's an important difference. I bet WATCH_DOGS consumed a lot more time, money and resource than The Last of Us but for me only one of those was a AAA game. But I actually agree with you with regard to Ubisoft, I really liked Far Cry 3, Black Black Flag, WATCH_DOGS and Far Cry 4 but none of them felt like a AAA game to me.

This time last gen, what had Sony produced for PS3?

Lair

 

[Sigfried1977]

Also Heavenly Sword, Resistance, Motorstorm, Ratchet & Clank and Folklore.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don't think Sony's problem is that they haven't taken risks, the problem is that a lot of the games they released were not really best in class. A lot of them weren't necessarily bad, they just weren't as good as the hype and probably didn't catch fire the way Sony wanted them to. They have a varying degree of success with their big budget exclusives, but for the most part I'd say they're not putting out hits with the exception of a few obvious titles like Naughty Dog games.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Also Heavenly Sword, Resistance, Motorstorm, Ratchet & Clank and Folklore.

Heavenly Sword - universally panned
Resistance - generally regarded as an average to middling game by all who didn't play it (i.e. most gamers)
Motorstorm - unfortunately niche gem. A cracking game that was far from a hit
Ratchet & Clank - probably the most successful outta the lot here
Folklore - fanstic game, but niche and not very well received by the media who didn't understand it.

All not very high scoring games (bar a couple of exceptions), or in pretty niche genres if you go by their metacritic scores. None were very talked about at the time, and none really did much in the way of selling consoles for Sony or impressing gamers.

If the above was the current slate for PS4 now, this thread would still exist.

I don't think Sony's problem is that they haven't taken risks, the problem is that a lot of the games they released were not really best in class. A lot of them weren't necessarily bad, they just weren't as good as the hype and probably didn't catch fire the way Sony wanted them to. They have a varying degree of success with their big budget exclusives, but for the most part I'd say they're not putting out hits with the exception of a few obvious titles like Naughty Dog games.

If you're only talking about Sony's retail AAA-budget games then sure, but I'd argue that even then they probably have more hits than the majority of other big publishers (if by hit we mean >3m unit sellers). Outside of GT they don't have any mega-hit games (i.e. 10+m sellers), and I think that's where this perception comes from.

Few pubs put out more than one particular game in any genre that is "best in class". And I'd argue that Sony has more BIC games than most pubs. It's just that the "classes" in question are not the most popular, biggest selling anymore (e.g. racers).

In terms of hit games across AAA retail and download, I'd say Sony generally delivers the goods. In terms of quality, they've certainly produced alot more interesting and enjoyable games for me personally than any other publisher. They also have one of the most diverse portfolios of any gaming publisher, which I think contributes to alot of the failures and turkeys they've put out on the market, but also alot of the surprising successes, both critically and commercially (e.g. Journey).

 

[Sigfried1977]

Heavenly Sword sits at a nice 79 on Metacritic. Not what I'd call universally panned. Actually it's right on the threshold of what's usually considered greatness. Unlike in the order's case, the good scores aren't exclusively coming from poor small time bloggers Sony threw a bone to in the form of an early review copy either. HS reviewed pretty well accross the board.

And no, this thread absolutely wouldn't exist because Sony developed and/or backed cool titles.

 

[dobwal]

Also Heavenly Sword, Resistance, Motorstorm, Ratchet & Clank and Folklore.

Don't forget Uncharted as it was released just a year after the PS3 launched.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Heavenly Sword sits at a nice 79 on Metacritic. Not what I'd call universally panned. Actually it's right on the threshold of what's usually considered greatness. Unlike in the order's case, the good scores aren't exclusively coming from poor small time bloggers Sony threw a bone to in the form of an early review copy either. HS reviewed pretty well accross the board.

And no, this thread absolutely wouldn't exist because Sony developed and/or backed cool titles.

Generally the way most VG media reviewers work, anything below an 8 is considered shit (of course there are varying shades of shit).
Anything between an 8 and 9 is considered average, and anything above a 9 is great.

So a 7.9 could never be considered approaching greatness. And you only need to wade into the odd web forum discussion on heavenly sword to know that it's generally regarded by the press and gamers alike as middling to tripe. Well... all those who never played it of course (and a few jaded ones that did) ;-)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Heavenly Sword - universally panned
Resistance - generally regarded as an average to middling game by all who didn't play it (i.e. most gamers)
Motorstorm - unfortunately niche gem. A cracking game that was far from a hit
Ratchet & Clank - probably the most successful outta the lot here
Folklore - fanstic game, but niche and not very well received by the media who didn't understand it.

I've a very different take. Ignoring Metascores and earnings as I don't consider these important when it comes to finding games I enjoy.

Heavenly Sword - incredible cinematic story with world-class motion capture. Not everyone's cup of tea, but it stood apart in terms of style
RFoM - okay shooter. Not ground breaking
Motorstorm - great little racer and fairly high-class graphics (let down by the E3 imaginations). For racing fans it was well received, I think
R&C - another in the franchise. Same old same old...
Folklore - originality

So in that list, there was reasonable diversity. Something for everyone, rather than one thing for everyone (Gears of War). There was also Lair which tried to be fabulous and was original even if the final execution met with criticism.

Looking at Sony's plans over the years, I do see a sense of major conservatism. LBP promised creation as part of the gameplay, but ended up a standard platformer. PSEye content didn't materialise. The Magic game for Move ended up very generic and uninspiring after early possibilities. And PS4's launch materials are very standard fair - standard racer (pretty), standard shooter (pretty), fairly standard city action game (pretty), standard kiddy game. As others say though, when you get old and crusty, the old games are tired. For the kids of today, it's new and exciting. Perhaps old, tired gamers aren't Sony's target demographic any more and they're left to independent studios to cater for?

 

[iroboto]

I wouldn't be surprised if the aim is to take Xbox audience. It was not hard to emulate what MS did last generation. In addition to keeping your own audience you can also grab your competitors.

It is reflective of what we see today in terms of the hardware pie. The path easily taken is a path everyone can take.

It a couple of years I think Sony could have more Sony games if that makes sense - but right now they grab all the dudebro audience they can while everyone is free agent looking for their next console purchase that they want to settle down into.