Intel ARC GPUs, Xe Architecture for dGPUs [2018-2022]

[Kaotik]

Are we legitimately arguing on a graphics enthusiasts forum that a reputable reviewer ignoring RT is acceptable?

Unbelievable.

It's more unbelievable that some think reviewer couldn't cater to whoever they want to cater their reviews for.
It's like you think having a choice is bad.

 

[Svensk Viking]

I don't care for RT on cards with that performance profile so you're preaching to the choir. However, this is irrelevant. RT is very strong on this card and it's a reviewer's job to bench it. We're not talking about a 3050 with laughable capabilities that no one will use. RT is 100% usable on the A770/A750.

Some people also don't care for noise level, OC, or power consumption. A review without them is still incomplete.

Also, calling other reviews "carbon copies" because they review the full set of features is just bizarre. You shouldn't spin incomplete reviews into something positive.

That's basically your expectations of what a review should consist of.
Unless there is a deal that explicitly tells them what to test and publish, they are free to focus on whatever they wish, whether it be using Nouveau drivers on Linux or gaming performance at 30% the TDP.

 

[Dampf]

In the near future, current gen only games will use RT as a standard and finally get rid of baked lightmaps and SSR, just like Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition and the future Avatar game. This is so that developers can save time and money that is better spent on other aspects of the game. You won't be able to turn off RT, so even if you don't care about RT, Raytracing performance of a card is a crucial part of an informed purchase decision. If you buy a card with better RT performance now, your card will perform better in general once RT is standard. "Reviewers" like Steve continue to ignore this and concentrate too much on performance in the present instead of being forward looking.

 

[Below2D]

That's basically your expectations of what a review should consist of.
Unless there is a deal that explicitly tells them what to test and publish, they are free to focus on whatever they wish, whether it be using Nouveau drivers on Linux or gaming performance at 30% the TDP.

My expectation of a review is for it to be complete.

 

[Svensk Viking]

Reviewing reviewers is part of the process too, people can have opinions on the relative competence that youtubers display. Of course there are many other channels, but we're going to debate their relative worth if they're going to be cited as an authoritative source.

If someone actually did point out that review as being The Authoritative source, I missed it, and don't agree with it at all.

The only authority I have ever considered existing in PC gaming are the gaming studios who actually decide the minimum requirements.

 

[Kaotik]

In the near future, current gen only games will use RT as a standard and finally get rid of baked lightmaps and SSR. This is so that developers can save time and money that is better spent on other aspects of the game. You won't be able to turn off RT, so even if you don't care about RT, Raytracing performance of a card is a crucial part of an informed purchase decision. If you buy a card with better RT performance now, your card will perform better in general once RT is standard. "Reviewers" like Steve continue to ignore this and concentrate too much on performance in the present instead of being forward looking.

And it is good for people who are buying their cards for current games and don't care for RT.
How hard is it to understand that we have people with different priorities and it's good that as many different priorities as possible are represented in reviews. Everyone can choose the review closest to their priorities.

 

[Kaotik]

My expectation of a review is for it to be complete.

And how is it not complete for those who don't care about RT? Pretty sure there are literally no reviews testing every feature in every different scenario and games. So no reviews are complete then?

 

[Below2D]

And how is it not complete for those who don't care about RT? Pretty sure there are literally no reviews testing every feature in every different scenario and games. So no reviews are complete then?

You keep spinning this as them "catering" to a certain demographic when it has nothing to do with that. Furthermore, they can review RT and rasterization so I have no idea why you keep speaking like it's one or the other. We have a review of someone completely ignoring a major feature and you spin this as them catering to their user base that doesn't care about RT. That's such a bizarre stance but whatever.

I'm done with this subject.

 

[Svensk Viking]

My expectation of a review is for it to be complete.

You have the right to have your expectations and stick to your definition of what "complete" is, but don't expect to be able to force them onto everyone else.

A review not containing any Linux benchmarks could easily be incomplete to someone else.

 

[Kaotik]

You keep spinning this as them "catering" to a certain demographic when it has nothing to do with that. Furthermore, they can review RT and rasterization so I have no idea why you keep speaking like it's one or the other. We have a review of someone completely ignoring a major feature and you spin this as them catering to their user base that doesn't care about RT. That's such a bizarre stance but whatever.

I'm done with this subject.

It has all to do with catering to certain demographics, they actually asked their readers/watchers about RT and majority didn't care.

 

[Below2D]

It has all to do with catering to certain demographics, they actually asked their readers/watchers about RT and majority didn't care.

That was like 2 years ago unless they did a more recent survey.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

And it is good for people who are buying their cards for current games and don't care for RT.

Then they can ignore the graphs with RT then. The majority of the games they tested have RT support, that alone speaks to the difference in timeline compared to say, 3 years ago. It's not an esoteric feature anymore, it's basically ignoring Ultra settings on the very games they tested.

As a reviewer you can certainly voice your opinion as to the relative worth of a feature and factor that into your conclusion, nothing wrong with saying you don't think RT performance doesn't mean much in this price class. Ok, fine. I think any review focusing only on modern games and RT in particular would also be equally silly for this class of card, especially for a card where its biggest detriment is older games.

It just is kind of funny though considering that Hardware Unboxed has long considered RT performance largely unimportant - and yet almost every game in their test suite...has RT. Looks like the market has spoken, and hence why Intel has placed so much effort in this area. Apparently they disagree that it's useless in this price tier.

 

[dorf]

Never once switching the ray tracing options in these games, hypocricy at it's best.

From the article:

We also haven't had time to test ray tracing performance beyond what we saw in F1 2021 and that's certainly something to explore in the weeks to come. That said, we strongly believe ray tracing at this performance tier is mostly irrelevant as you'd have to compromise on other visual quality settings in order to achieve a 60 fps minimum at low resolutions such as 1080p.

Intel Arc A770 & A750 Review

The Arc A770 and A750 genuinely impressed us on numerous occasions and there's true potential for Intel to become a third contender in the GPU space. It's...

www.techspot.com

Doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me...

 

[DavidGraham]

From the article:

Intel Arc A770 & A750 Review

The Arc A770 and A750 genuinely impressed us on numerous occasions and there's true potential for Intel to become a third contender in the GPU space. It's...

www.techspot.com

Doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me...

What a pathetic excuse.

And how is it not complete for those who don't care about RT?

Complete means: test with the latest API, that's the bare minimum effort for reviewing, I don't suppose you'd be content with a review that only tests DX11 games, right?
A review isn't about who cares for what! it's about testing the limits of the products in the current software and future software environment.

 

[Reznor007]

That was like 2 years ago unless they did a more recent survey.

Few months ago

 

[JoeJ]

From the article:

We also haven't had time to test ray tracing performance beyond what we saw in F1 2021 and that's certainly something to explore in the weeks to come. That said, we strongly believe ray tracing at this performance tier is mostly irrelevant as you'd have to compromise on other visual quality settings in order to achieve a 60 fps minimum at low resolutions such as 1080p.

Is this true? True for a 20tf GPU?

When RTX was announced, i believed it's more like this:

In the near future, current gen only games will use RT as a standard and finally get rid of baked lightmaps and SSR, just like Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition and the future Avatar game. This is so that developers can save time and money that is better spent on other aspects of the game. You won't be able to turn off RT, so even if you don't care about RT, Raytracing performance of a card is a crucial part of an informed purchase decision. If you buy a card with better RT performance now, your card will perform better in general once RT is standard. "Reviewers" like Steve continue to ignore this and concentrate too much on performance in the present instead of being forward looking.

But quite some years have passed already, and it did not, and does not seem to happen.
RT remains an optional feature.

To change this, we would need two things:
Moores Law NOT being dead.
Flexible APIs so devs can squeeze the HW better and coming up with creative solutions.

Well, i guess it remains an optional feature...

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Speaking of incompetent reviews, from the other end:

Once we get into games, at least, the Arc A770 and Arc A750 generally kick serious butt for their price range, and they’re an easier recommendation right now—even in their early, uneven state—than the comparable AMD RX 6600XT. Really, it’s simple: Based on our testing results, you should probably buy either of these GPUs before you buy a 6600XT.

...then follows that up with all the disasters they had with DX9/11 games. Bizarre.

 

[Dampf]

Speaking of incompetent reviews, from the other end:



...then follows that up with all the disasters they had with DX9/11 games. Bizarre.

They are right though. Arc has far better RT capabilities and accelerates ML with matrix cores. It will age much better compared to RDNA2.

It's a no brainer really, Arc is the way to go.

But quite some years have passed already, and it did not, and does not seem to happen.
RT remains an optional feature.

That's because cross gen is still kicking and taking longer than usual. The new Avatar game is already confirmed to use RT exclusively for GI and reflections.

 

[dorf]

What a pathetic excuse.

So what was their actual reason?

They are planning to address RT performance in a separate piece. I don't think releasing a narrower review at the end of NDA is that horrible if their time was limited.

 

[JoeJ]

The new Avatar game is already confirmed to use RT exclusively for GI and reflections.

You mean it requires HW acceleration? On minimum specs? If so - does it have a release date?