Image Quality and Framebuffer Speculations for WIP/alpha/beta/E3 games *Read the first post*

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Farid, Nov 7, 2008.

  1. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    14,679
    Likes Received:
    6,749
    Vaseline intensive care or the newer one that's more lotion-y. Because we all know the original petroleum type on is the good one.
     
  2. Bagel seed

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    16
    Game looks like a cam release.
     
  3. zed

    zed
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,250
    Likes Received:
    1,323
    Im no expert in pixel counting, but that looks lower than 900p, has that been confirmed?
    Someone should be able to work it out from that rope on the top shot
    I see from arwin's site the previous game was 1600x900
    I had a look at the previous game and it does look higher resolution

    \edit: looked a bit more at some screenshots, and it looks like the texture resolution is really really low and thats causing it to look so bad
     
    #4383 zed, Oct 31, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2014
  4. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    2,932
    Location:
    France
    The problem doesn't come from the resolution of textures which aren't worse, IMO, than similar open world games lilke AC4 or Shadow of Mordor. The problem comes from the cheap heavy post AA + cheap vaseline effect + cheap hardware upscaling.

    A cheap, i mean very cheap, I meant really badly cheap solution has never worked very well in any projects whatsoever.

    In order to remove 1% of image problems (the jaggies), they effectively destroyed by collateral damages 99% of the rest of the image... And we can still see the jaggies! :shock:

    I somehow doubt there is still a morphological or a temporal component in this post AA. Some long edges are not anymore properly anti aliased and normally any temporal component will give a supersampled look to the game like with KZ, AC4, Infamous, Driveclub or even Quantum break.

    Here this 900p game (verified at least vertically) doesn't look supersampled at all. Quite the contrary. It looks similar (in clarity) to a great looking 720p game like UC3.

    EDIT: Obviously no morphological AA component here:
    [​IMG]
     
    #4384 Globalisateur, Oct 31, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2014
  5. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    :) You are giving Cristiano Ronaldo's secrets away.

    The other day in the Barça-Real Madrid match there was an American (you know americans still aren't that good at football --soccer) commentating the match on TV (stream) and he went like this when talking about Cristiano Ronaldo:

    "It is as prickly as a porcupine's backside." "He's as slippery as an eel covered in Vaseline." :lol2::mrgreen::lol2::lol2:
     
    #4385 Cyan, Oct 31, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2014
  6. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Now that you mention it... what if the PS4 is just meant for 1080p and it doesn't use an upscaler other than some built-in very basic solution? I mean, that might explain why Sony are pushing 1080p so much.

    It's also known that Assassin's Creed developers will just go with what they got instead of creating an upscaling solution themselves --remember ACIV initial controversy with upscaling on Xbox One.

    If both games are 900p, I wonder how the Xbox One version will look like -FX aside, where the PS4 should have the edge- 'cos the hardware upscaler has been programmed again and improved.
     
  7. Rangers

    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    12,686
    Likes Received:
    1,508

    The previous AC? Nope, a quick google says a day 1 patch made AC IV 1080 on PS4...was 900 on X1
     
  8. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    2,932
    Location:
    France
    No. There is no real proof that the hardware upscaler has being improved in any way. When some XB1 games use a custom software upscaling solution like Ryse and probably Quantum break, then yes, the upscaling is definitely better than PS4 hardware solution. But this custom software upscaler eats ressources and is only used in a few exclusive games.

    If there was a high quality free hardware upscaler in XB1 then it would be used by all sub-1080p multiplats. It's not the case and all those XB1 multiplats use a cheap upscaling solution very similar to PS4 upscaler.

    And the XB1 hardware upscaling solution (after the patch which got rid of the sharpen effect) is virtually identical in the PS4 upscaler quality from what I could tell when I compared both upscaling on several games. I assume that when they got rid of the nasty sharpen effect they simply bypassed the hardware upscaler by using the AMD hardware upscaler instead, which is exactly the same for all this family of AMD GPUs.
     
  9. morphinapg

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    28
    The quality of the upscaler won't matter much unless the game has really nice AA anyway. Heck a simple bilinear upscale might be better if the AA is poor quality.
     
  10. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,321
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    Image Quality and Framebuffer Speculations for Unreleased Games *Read the fir...


    And so does techingames.net - version 1.02 on PS4 updated to 1920x1080.

    AC IV was a cross platform game though, so definitely less demanding. But at 30fps I feel the PS4 should still be able to manage 1080p ...
     
  11. shredenvain

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Somewhere in southern U.S.
    SSOD uses software upscaling according to the latest post in the Xbox hardware scaler thread. The guy from insomniac goes on to say that the hardware scaler had been improved thru an Sdk update. (Sharpen filter removed as well as a fix for crushed blacks)
    I am not sure what the difference between both systems on chip scalers is if there is any difference, but I seriously doubt that they just bypassed the custom one in the X1.
    Also why would there be another "standard AMD scaler" on the gpu? These are custom chips after all. Why would they put 2 scalers on die as opposed to just replacing the standard one with the revised custom version. That doesnt make alot of sense.
     
  12. zed

    zed
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,250
    Likes Received:
    1,323
    Sorry when I quickly looked there I saw
    ps4 1600x900 xbone 1600x900 and ignored the 3rd (I must of assumed that was PC)
    If they update the game on the first day from 1600x900 to 1080p I'ld stick the 1080p number down cause thats currently the game's resolution
     
  13. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,321
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    Yeah, I am thinking about making a view that merges the latest data from different versions, perhaps showing the version number in there somewhere, and perhaps making that a proper matched table with empty values where none is given, but still lined out to exactly the same size etc. I've changed the sorting though so all version information is shown per platform for now.
     
  14. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    afaik, the Xbox One has been built with upscaling in mind from the get go, the engineers admitted that themselves -see Richard's interview on Eurogamer-. :smile2: (they knew the hardware isn't overly powerful)

    Isn't the scaler programmable? I purchased AC IV when it came out and looked extremely sharp on my TV to the point of having the leafs of the trees flashing some kind of *aggressive* white dots -so difficult to explain-.

    Now you play the game and without it being patched it looks more natural, Ubisoft did nothing at all. Same for other titles (Killer Instinct).
     
  15. DrJay24

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    Internet
    They patched the AA.
     
  16. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    2,932
    Location:
    France
    What you're describing is precisely the nasty sharpening filter in effect that has being later removed in all game with a XB1 patch.

    How it has being "removed" is the real interesting question.
     
  17. Sh1nn

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    2
    Evolve (XBO)

    [​IMG]
     
  18. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    22,146
    Likes Received:
    8,529
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
  19. DJ12

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,105
    Likes Received:
    198
  20. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Yes, I've read it in this Digital Foundry article, some time ago.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-has-microsoft-fixed-the-xbox-one-scaler

    The question is how they did it, but it all points out to the fact that the hardware upscaler is programmable? So you create an algorithm, send it to the upscaler and it interprets/apply it.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...