Idei san : Technological visionaries are screwing Sony...

[chaphack]

I did, and I don´t know exactly from where he got the conclusion that Kutaragi-san is about to get fired and Idei regrets investing in SCEA and wants to kill it off.

However, as it is usual with you, you just see what you want to see. I advice you to leave the boards. You do nothing but derailing arguements and have nothing to contribute to these boards, nothing.

You don´t even have a mind of your own, and have to resort to legendary idiots such as DMGA and the horribly biased Lazy8s to create arguements for you to use and reuse constantly.

Deadmeat is so reliable that he predicted PS2 would be a finantial disaster and thought Sony shouldn´t even launch it. Read other of DMGA´s and Lazy´s "precious" contributions in the GA forums and prepare for the laugh of your life.

Oh please.... Stop sounding soooo high and mighty. Is that what Sony fannys are primarily good at? I have a sound mind of my own thank you. I wont say much about DMGA, but Lazy is a great guy, and is as "horribly biased" as you PSFannys defending PS2 troubled 3D graphiX, in light of stronger competition. IF only there were some sorta "forum mirrors", it be good reflection on some of you holy elitists to see.

And dont even talk about derailing topics, guess who are the ones whiffing out at this particular topic... :?

And I would readily leave this place if Dave renamed this section to Sony Talk. Is that fine with yeay? Is that what you want?

 

[chaphack]

Lets see,

Sonic is never around, and jvd is a mod....and you expect this to end any time soon?

What has that to do with the topic at hand? NOTHING.
Nice you have there though.

 

[kaching]

Dude, like i said, just read the info DMGA posted. You dont have to take his views to heart.

I did read the info. I didn't take his views to heart. But as you yourself said, he's a heckler, and this is his topic so the question is, how do I engage a heckler in an objective discussion about his own topic of interest? Well, I tried by first asking him to clarify his position but I'll have to wait till he responds to continue that line of conversation.

As for the "perfect" world, obviously you haven read enough.

...

Well, maybe "perfect" is a too strong word

Judging by your own waffling, I'd say I've read plenty.

From the Sony will have a full set top box BR PS3 for 299, to the Sony will have perfect production of the 65nm Cell chips, to the Sony will have a strong stable software environment for mulitcore Cell, to the Sony will have easy PS3 games development, to the Sony will have all the neccessary 3D hardware capabilites all worked out, to the Sony will easily walk away victorious next gen, to the Sony will put an end to Intel/MS ambitions for your living room, to the Sony will have complete Cell success, to the Sony will establish Cell as the new x86 massive standard, to the Sony will make the masses readily adopt to their new fangled ideals, to the Sony will have their online dreamy dreams coming true, to the PSP will crush Nintendo dominant territory, to the yadadadada.

Taken individually, each of these views is probably held by one person or another in this forum and I know that there are some here who believe Sony is capable of a combination of them. However, there is not one "Super Sony Fan" that believes that ALL of these things are possible together, at least not here posting in this forum. On the other hand, there certainly seem to be a few people who believe Sony is capable of NONE of these things...is that what you call balance?

And I would readily leave this place if Dave renamed this section to Sony Talk.

Interesting...so you'd leave a forum, which is nothing more than a virtual space designated by a URL, if it were called "Sony Talk" but you won't leave alone topics, which are nothing more than a virtual space designated by a URL, if they are clearly Sony Talk?

Incidentally, I'm not insinuating you should leave. Just exploring the logic behind that particular comment.

 

[Almasy]

As another lurker I'm gonna echo this and add in that as biased as DMGA's posts are they are infinitely more readable then your 11 year old mental diarrhea.

Did I offend you in some way or anything? I don´t intend to participate much longer on this "subtopic", but some things have to be said. He´s a troll that speaks of the desire to learn, when in reality one that means for real to learn, shuts up, opens his ears and tries to understand. He does nothing of the sort, and just wants arguements to put PS2 down. If telling the truth and advising something that would be in the board´s best interest "11 year old mental diarrea" then so be it.

What chap does I call internet garbage, because it does nothing but waste space, and so is this part of the post, becuase competent mods should have already gotten rid of him and DMGA a long time ago, and there wouldn´t be any necessity for this.

Ok, to put this thread back on topic, it seems to me that Sony has been taking wrong choices in some of its R&D, such as going against LCDs and PDPs.

It´s also interesting what he has to say about Blu-Ray. I still have doubts that it´ll be inside PS3, after what he said what are the odds of seeing it? What are the implications regarding the overall Blu-Ray picture?

 

[Citan]

Ehh I must have worded that totally wrong because it was not aimed at you, rather it was in agreement with you Almasy.

 

[kaching]

Chap - since you're so concerned about balance, don't you find it interesting that, in one topic, we have three people who have opted to forego lurking and instead speak their mind? Maybe this equilibrium you seek has gone too far toward the negative too rapidly and required some emergency balancing towards the positive. Just a thought to ponder, if you're willing to be a little introspective.

 

[chaphack]

But as you yourself said, he's a heckler, and this is his topic so the question is, how do I engage a heckler in an objective discussion about his own topic of interest?

Maybe....you dont need to? Just read the info and get on with it, if the topic doesnt suit you.

Taken individually, each of these views is probably held by one person or another in this forum and I know that there are some here who believe Sony is capable of a combination of them.

More like collectively held by a few persons(yes, based on what you said subsequently, "ALL of those things"). You have not read enough.
Granted, Im not saying all pro Sony fans are as optimistic but there are a few who are.

On the other hand, there certainly seem to be a few people who believe Sony is capable of NONE of these things...is that what you call balance?

I would say so.

Interesting...so you'd leave a forum, which is nothing more than a virtual space designated by a URL, if it were called "Sony Talk" but you won't leave alone topics, which are nothing more than a virtual space designated by a URL, if they are clearly Sony Talk?

Incidentally, I'm not insinuating you should leave. Just exploring the logic behind that particular comment.

The logic is simple. Would you step into a land that says "No tresspassing, Private Property" as you would in a free open space?
Not that complete of an analogy but the point is, even if it is "virtual" space, but by slapping an official name to it, the place has taken a new perspective.

I would like to touch on your "leaving alone topics" thing. It sounds like im what, destroying Sony topics... :? Mabye by expressing doubts and alternative views about the stuff in question, then "yes".

But by making it a Sony Talk, it be "un-nice" to add disbelieves and alternatives, to their glowing chit chat. In other words, an official Sony forums shall allow the members to glorified Sony in whatever ways they want(as in TXB/Nvidia/ATi/Ngage place). An exclusive place for Sony people, to chat all nice and sweet about Sony.

BUT since this is a multiconsole forums, there will always be another view of things.

 

[Almasy]

Ehh I must have worded that totally wrong because it was not aimed at you, rather it was in agreement with you Almasy.

Oops, I thought you meant something else. Sorry about the confusion.

Chap - since you're so concerned about balance, don't you find it interesting that, in one topic, we have three people who have opted to forego lurking and instead speak their mind? Maybe this equilibrium you seek has gone too far toward the negative too rapidly and required some emergency balancing towards the positive. Just a thought to ponder, if you're willing to be a little introspective.

It´s really interesting, I thought I was the only person really annoyed by the things chap usually does in detriment to the forum. Glad to see other people see this.

Hopefully mods will do something about this issue after reading this.

 

[chaphack]

What chap does I call internet garbage, because it does nothing but waste space, and so is this part of the post, becuase competent mods should have already gotten rid of him and DMGA a long time ago, and there wouldn´t be any necessity for this.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/search.php?search_author=Almasy

And how much has Mr high holy Almasy "contributed" to this place?



Wow, i see that you arent much of a Nintendo, Sega and SoA fan are you? So you can express doubts, dislikes and all about them(even insulting Nintendo fans are brainless! <- chap no do that to PSfanny), why is it any more "contributive" than chap who is no Sony fan. Maybe because its Sony and it hurts you?

Everyone should read that Tales of Symnphony topic BTW.

 

[chaphack]

Chap - since you're so concerned about balance, don't you find it interesting that, in one topic, we have three people who have opted to forego lurking and instead speak their mind? Maybe this equilibrium you seek has gone too far toward the negative too rapidly and required some emergency balancing towards the positive. Just a thought to ponder, if you're willing to be a little introspective.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=158564&highlight=#158564

Another member, Cyborg, speaks on Almasy "contribution",

"Someone who is such a pompous prick and thinks his opinion is fact deserves a ban. He completely ruined this thread.

He's also on the troll side "



Like i said, its all open for the good members to judge.

 

[Almasy]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/search.php?search_author=Almasy

And how much has Mr high holy Almasy "contributed" to this place?



Wow, i see that you arent much of a Nintendo, Sega and SoA fan are you? So you can express doubts, dislikes and all about them(even insulting Nintendo fans are brainless! <- chap no do that to PSfanny), why is it any more "contributive" than chap who is no Sony fan. Maybe because its Sony and it hurts you?

Everyone should read that Tales of Symnphony topic BTW.

Because I don´t contribute before if I don´t have something important to say. I´m honestly here to learn, and that´s why I keep my mouth shut and try to listen and understand before I can contribute. I have learned plenty from people like Panajev, Vince and Marconelly, and its frustrating to see very informative topics derailed by you and DMGA.

I don´t deny that I´m not the biggest Nintendo fan, and I sometimes have some strong views on some games. However, that was a long time ago, and I have changed my views since then, and I´m also a different person than I was back then. I also want to apologize if I insulted anyone in that particular thread, I was very stubborn on some things and I used to go to extremes at times back then.

 

[chaphack]

Because I don´t contribute before if I don´t have something important to say. I´m honestly here to learn, and that´s why I keep my mouth shut and try to listen and understand before I can contribute. I have learned plenty from people like Panajev, Vince and Marconelly, and its frustrating to see very informative topics derailed by you and DMGA.

1) You did so many times in the past before. IF you want to talk strictly contribution, tell me which of your posts are as cool-tech-to-read as guys like Faf/Pana/SimonF/Archiez/Cybamerc/Wibbles/Crazyace/Dave/etc? None, i can tell you. All you have, as with me, is just expressing simplistic tech views while pushing questions and your own POV. Both of us arent techies, so its still alright. The only diff is, you are for-A/against-B while im for-B/against-A.

2) Adding doubts and questionabilites != derailing.


In the end, you need to accept the multi-verse that this place is and stop crying BAN against members whom dont share the same thoughts as you.

 

[notAFanB]

Dude, like i said, just read the info DMGA posted. You dont have to take his views to heart.

his veiws and how he reachd them are fine, skewing quotes in a public forum is NOT acceptable practice.

It´s really interesting, I thought I was the only person really annoyed by the things chap usually does in detriment to the forum. Glad to see other people see this.

then discuss it with him and if the dicussion isn't forthcoming then leave (the thread not the board, it's too nice here).

Maybe....you dont need to? Just read the info and get on with it, if the topic doesnt suit you.

what are you implying?

an example:

From the Sony will have a full set top box BR PS3 for 299

possible but unlikely, unless their approach is to be overly agressive this time round.

to the Sony will have perfect production of the 65nm Cell chips,

this was never assumed. one theory (that's right theory) that has been bandied around that the investment in production is planned out over the next 3 yrs at least. barring a disaster scenario of 10% yields sustained oer 18mnths this is expensive but not ludicrous.

again how agressive do Sony intend to promote PS3 in 2006?

to the Sony will have a strong stable software environment for mulitcore Cell, to the Sony will have easy PS3 games development, to the Sony will have all the neccessary 3D hardware capabilites all worked out,

if Sony really expect coding ot the metal and micromanagement off bat for an 4 core ELL(presumably) then yes DM's right about that nighmarish managaement part.
the only thing I would like to point out is that:

a. GFX pipelines routines won't be the problem. it's granular enough that we don't require super devs

b. getting to CPU to run coherently with other non-gFX processes is a mystery to me.

c. it would a revelation if they decided to put rasterisation (and thus texture blending and buffer RW) on CELL itself. big mistake

to the Sony will easily walk away victorious next gen,

while I don't agree abou thte 'easy' part, they are the leading horse at the momment and (amazingly) since have the momentum to carry them them gen.

to the Sony will put an end to Intel/MS ambitions for your living room,

nonsense, to do that would require anti-competitve practices unheard of since Rockafella.

to the Sony will have complete Cell success

again the gains they can make are clear (consolidated IC production, wider integration) in the medium term.
successful as an R&D project for the corparation? vrey likely.

success as god like dominion over intel? not a chance.

to the Sony will establish Cell as the new x86 massive standard

who said that?

to the Sony will make the masses readily adopt to their new fangled ideals

'adopt'? you mean buy right? I'm not buying an ideal (certqinly not this one). I'm buying an attractive product.

if it doesn't offer me anything then I don't buy. the implementation behind the product is suuposed to be transparent
to me. (well reasonably, I'm not opposed to signing up for matching service ala Live or subscription channels are a given).

to the Sony will have their online dreamy dreams coming true

er just adopt the Live model, late in the game but some benefits can be reaped here.

to the PSP will crush Nintendo dominant territory

I'm actually curious about this one. while not partable gamming savy like some I imagine this
'might' appeal to the consultant PDA crowd to some extent.

Nintendo will likely pick up the rest.

to the yadadadada.

yabadabadooooo!

1) You did so many times in the past before. IF you want to talk strictly contribution,
tell me which of your posts are as cool-tech-to-read as guys like Faf/Pana/SimonF/Archiez/Cybamerc/Wibbles/Crazyace/Dave/etc?
None, i can tell you. All you have, as with me, is just expressing simplistic tech views while pushing questions and your
own POV.

this is a discussion board, as such the main idea to to contibutio to the discussion, to elaborate and to share view, opinion and experience. al in a
civil manner.

Both of us arent techies, so its still alright. The only diff is, you are for-A/against-B while im for-B/against-A.

by that requirement this board would be empty. we all have something to bring to the table, I only ask that we do so coherently and without obstrutification.

 

[chaphack]

notAfanB,

you havent read enough either.

 

[notAFanB]

notAfanB,

you havent read enough either.

I fail to see what you mean, please detail the points you wish to elaborate on.

 

[Almasy]

1) You did so many times in the past before. IF you want to talk strictly contribution, tell me which of your posts are as cool-tech-to-read as guys like Faf/Pana/SimonF/Archiez/Cybamerc/Wibbles/Crazyace/Dave/etc? None, i can tell you. All you have, as with me, is just expressing simplistic tech views while pushing questions and your own POV. Both of us arent techies, so its still alright. The only diff is, you are for-A/against-B while im for-B/against-A.

Wow, I admire Pana for having such a big ammount of patience for you...Look, I´m here to LEARN, therefore I´m not here to explain anything nor post ultra long technology posts, because I´m here to LEARN and therefore I´m trying to understand, not to post anti-Sony propaganda. And if you truly are here for the same thing, you´d do the same.

I´m far from being the same as you chap, you do derail topics each day, literaly, and many of your views are not well founded in the least.

You even openly stated that you didn´t know what the technology behind CELL was, and you had a long story of CELL bashing in the past. Don´t you think a change of attitude would be appropiate for you?

2) Adding doubts and questionabilites != derailing.

I welcome doubts, as long as they are valid. Why don´t you try to listen more and participate less? If all you have is genuine doubts and questions, then why don´t you try to take an open position and actually listen to the reasons why one theory could become reality, instead of basically covering your ears to every "Pro-Sony" arguement and say it isn´t true, despite the reasons.

I have my doubts concerning Blu-Ray and the billion transistors in CELL, but I´ve read about them and have some knowledge on how it could be possible.

Tell me, have you learned anything from what Vince, marconelly, Fafalada, Panajev and others have posted?

Because I don´t think you have, and yet, you have a person that claimed in 2000 that PS2 should never be released and would most definitely "die" and one that almost claims DC looked better than FF:TSW because of DC´s output as your "spiritual leaders". How can you believe their word? Do you truly want to learn from them? Or are you here just to bash Sony?

 

[chaphack]

I´m far from being the same as you chap, you do derail topics each day, literaly, and many of your views are not well founded in the least.

I dont "derail" topic daily, i just participate in them aggressively. Ask yeay questions raise some doubts, add a few impressions/POV. Nothing wrong. Nothing entirely different from you.

you had a long story of CELL bashing in the past.

IIRC, im "bashing" CELL feasibility rather than technically.

What more, I dont recall a "long" story of CELL bashing. Again, its just doubts on how Sony is going "Cellularised" the World, rather than the raw techincal inside of Cell.

Don´t you think a change of attitude would be appropiate for you?

My non-committal to Sony attitude is just fine thank you. Now, yours and your usual member BAN-ishing ... that needs a look into. Just what have you done to this topic. .. Chap vs Almasy. ..:?

Tell me, have you learned anything from what Vince, marconelly, Fafalada, Panajev and others have posted?

Technically, yes.
Hopey hopes/dreamy-dreams Sony Optimism, no.

as your "spiritual leaders".

Since when?

How can you believe their word?

I believe what i see thank you.

Or are you here just to bash Sony?

 

[chaphack]

Wow, I admire Pana for having such a big ammount of patience for you

And yes, i greatly admire Pana too. Nice pro Sony guy, unlike a few holy others around...

 

[notAFanB]

Almasy, let's not turn this into a flamefest.

I dont "derail" topic daily, i just participate in them aggressively. Ask yeay questions raise some doubts, add a few impressions/POV. Nothing wrong. Nothing entirely different from you.

nothing wrong here just please try and keep the POV as objective as you can make it, and try not get sidetracked by concurring arguements. it makes things more legible for all concerned.

IIRC, im "bashing" CELL feasibility rather than technically.

eh, not sure what you mean here, CELL itself as an architecture is feasable, it can be implemented, released and sold.

What more, I dont recall a "long" story of CELL bashing. Again, its just doubts on how Sony is going "Cellularised" the World, rather than the raw techincal inside of Cell.

well this is fair, but I must remind you that the same hurdle (and it is a big one) lies for any entity to penetrate the living room/workplace transparently.

you seem to be (correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you implying that CELL or any other technology will bring immediate effects? this is a misdominer as barring a revoltion in the computing sector just in't going to happen.

CELL like Live is there to provide a stepping stone in the direction of integration that is all it is.

I believe what i see thank you.

you shouldn't even believe 'that'!

And yes, i greatly admire Pana too. Nice pro Sony guy, unlike a few holy others around...

please ceast and desist your penchent for labling Sony supporters. thank you.

 

[Tuttle]

Console technology discussions on the Net suffer from the same common problem, lack of engineers who actually work on the hardware participating. Most of the good discussions go on in private boards for developers only.

So public console boards end up with a disproportionate number of people who have never touched the hardware under discussion. And their terminology and mindset are framed in terms of what they've read from places like NVidia's site.