Hybrid cars should be banned

So it's true, but it's untrue? You were telling the truth just off by a factor of 365? That's all!
Let's do the math, shall we: A Land Rover (not a high end engine/trim) will have an emissions level of about 260-300 g/km of CO2. If we're talking about 50 km, that's 13-15 kg/day. Methane weighs 0.717 kg/m³. If we give the cow 200 liters, that's ~143 g/day. Now, some claim that methane may be 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas, thus one cow is equal to a Land Rover driving 9.5 km/day.

Kill all cows! :cool:
 
Fuel economy doesn't actually change because they change the tests. The only thign that changes is what they report. Fuel economy is going to vairy for everyone. I live in a city unfortunately and my life is practically scheduled around the traffic. For many people in this city, commuters, they spend an hour and a half a day in start/stop traffic. It's pathetic.

No duh man.

That is why it is called estimated fuel economy.

They (toyota) claim... was what Tongue said. I just pointed out that their claim was based on a prescribed test so you cannot get all mad and complain as long as they actually meet that claim in the prescribed test. It would make more sense to complain at whomever came up with the parameters of the test than at companies that report their results accurately.
 
They should try and have Clarkson drive a Tesla Roadster. That would probably do more good for the future of cars and reducing CO2 than most anything else.
 
Again, care to provide any evidence of this? This is about the most absurd thing you've said yet. Did you get this idea from watching Back to the Future II? When we go to fuel up are they just gona throw car seats and tires into the engine? Burning rubber car tires is what we're gonna do for the environment?
I've heard about what he's referring to, and it does exist, and it's apparently far enough out there that there's a BBC documentary on it already, but it's something that's proposed as a sort of auxiliary solution. I'm not sure what the overall process is in detail, but it seems to involve some sort of exposure to absurdly high heat in an oxygen-deprived environment which apparently causes available hydrocarbons to separate. Supposedly, they claim that just about any waste organic compounds can be made into "biodiesel" this way, but I don't buy that, considering they've only demonstrated with stuff that was already rooted in petroleum (rubber tires, plastics)...

Either way, the process is horrifyingly inefficient in terms of EREOI, but lobbyists still make the argument that it is good because it reduces waste in much the same way that biodiesel from used fryer grease does.

Fuel economy doesn't actually change because they change the tests. The only thign that changes is what they report. Fuel economy is going to vairy for everyone. I live in a city unfortunately and my life is practically scheduled around the traffic. For many people in this city, commuters, they spend an hour and a half a day in start/stop traffic. It's pathetic.
And there goes another point missed completely... The point was that the reported mileage figures are closer to realistic for more people now that the driving schedule for the test has changed. The reality for most Prius owners in the US is that they average mileage somewhere in the low 40s with only brief stints above 50. In Japan, where traffic congestion is more severe, it's normal for people to get about double that kind of mileage.

They should try and have Clarkson drive a Tesla Roadster. That would probably do more good for the future of cars and reducing CO2 than most anything else.
As long as it performs, I think he'll be okay. The Prius had that kind of effect on him, but if it offered decent performance and got the mileage, he'd probably be fine with it even with the poor build quality which itself is clearly a measure to cut costs elsewhere so that the cost of building a hybrid drivetrain could be offset.
 
As long as it performs, I think he'll be okay.
Exactly. And it will. You don't need launch control, as they added that first gear. You get maximum torque from 0 rpm onwards, or any other time for that matter, and maximum power from 5000 to 12000 rpm. He'll love it.

Edit: It would probably feel something like driving a turbo diesel with launch control, that switches to turbo gasoline performance when it revs up.
 
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Btw, I would totally, really want to drive a powerful electric car that uses four brushless motors in the wheels: it wouldn't only have maximum torque from 0 rpm upwards to about 15,000 rpm, but maximum power as well. And the best AWD performance possible.

The only downside is the wheels being heavy, so a lot of work would have to be done on tough suspension.

Edit: the only real limits to the power production with brushless motors is the amount of heat produced in the motor and electronics, and the amperage the batteries can supply.
 
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Last but not least, like shown in "Who killed the electric car?", There really are no technological barriers to make all that possible right now. The only barriers are capitalistic (monopolistic, rather) and political.

Hydrogen fuel cells is definitely the most complex and expensive technology, that makes all the current powers the most money. All electric is definitely the thing we consumers should want.

But I'll stop for now. :)
 
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Last but not least, like shown in "Who killed the electric car?", There really are no technological barriers to make all that possible right now. The only barriers are capitalistic (monopolistic, rather) and political.

Hydrogen fuel cells is definitely the most complex and expensive technology, that makes all the current powers the most money. All electric is definitely the thing we consumers should want.

But I'll stop for now. :)

Another reason this is true is think how easy an all electric car would be to service. Any person could do work on it. Just buy a new motor and bolt it on. Less things like clutches that are a pain...
 
im no mechanic, but as far as I know with normal cars you almost never have big problems with your gearbox or engine. Besides that electric cars probably have things that you cant do without knowledge either. plugging in a new motor probably wont be that easy without a bridge either.
 
im no mechanic, but as far as I know with normal cars you almost never have big problems with your gearbox or engine. Besides that electric cars probably have things that you cant do without knowledge either. plugging in a new motor probably wont be that easy without a bridge either.

heh almost never? Have you ever owned a car?
 
And there goes another point missed completely... The point was that the reported mileage figures are closer to realistic for more people now that the driving schedule for the test has changed. The reality for most Prius owners in the US is that they average mileage somewhere in the low 40s with only brief stints above 50. In Japan, where traffic congestion is more severe, it's normal for people to get about double that kind of mileage.

I was only quoting the guy. He said the mileage was down. If he means mileage estimates, he should say so. My bud has owned a Prius for 3 years and gets consistently more than the estimate because he lives in a large U.S. city. My only point was correcting him on not stating he was referring to estimates and that higher actual rates were dependent on traffic. A fact that the thread starter adds as an unimportant footnote.
 
I've heard about what he's referring to, and it does exist, and it's apparently far enough out there that there's a BBC documentary on it already, but it's something that's proposed as a sort of auxiliary solution. I'm not sure what the overall process is in detail, but it seems to involve some sort of exposure to absurdly high heat in an oxygen-deprived environment which apparently causes available hydrocarbons to separate. Supposedly, they claim that just about any waste organic compounds can be made into "biodiesel" this way, but I don't buy that, considering they've only demonstrated with stuff that was already rooted in petroleum (rubber tires, plastics)...

Either way, the process is horrifyingly inefficient in terms of EREOI, but lobbyists still make the argument that it is good because it reduces waste in much the same way that biodiesel from used fryer grease does.


I'm looking all over to find something on it but so far all I've found is one questionable article that's been propagated to several sites.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/recycling_machine.php

He's an article about recycled ASR. I haven't read the entire thing, but I dont see anywhere about creation of automotive fuel.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...=4936599&md5=ef16599da8d6ff7b011e9093fb810431
 
heh almost never? Have you ever owned a car?

maybe reverse the question and ask yourself what kind of crap you buy or how you (mis)tread it if you are having these kind of problems. I dont own a car because its to expensive in my country to have one as a student (besides that I dont really need it) but as far as I can remember my parents never had engine or gearbox problems (except from the normal service you need to do after so many miles).
 
maybe reverse the question and ask yourself what kind of crap you buy or how you (mis)tread it if you are having these kind of problems. I dont own a car because its to expensive in my country to have one as a student (besides that I dont really need it) but as far as I can remember my parents never had engine or gearbox problems (except from the normal service you need to do after so many miles).
When you buy a new car (or any other product for that matter) there is simply no way to tell whether the engine will break down after 30 Mm, or last 300 Mm. You can take the manufacturer's reliability history into account, but that only gives you a probability based on what happened in the past. If your parents never had any problems, that's simple luck. The same way it's just luck if you never had any hardware defects.

Besides, even if you never have any extraordinary problems the "normal service" you mention constitutes a significant part of the running cost of a car. So a reduction in the parts that need to be serviced can lead to a significant cost reduction.

Parts under strain wear and eventually break. That's a simple mechanical fact. Thus less moving parts = less parts that break. A car with electric wheel motors has few moving parts and they're simple to reach. Electric motors are also very reliable.
 
My parents always have bought second hand cars, all of them were more than 10 years old when they sold them again and they owned all sorts of different brands so its defenitly not a matter of luck because they had all sorts of others problems. They owned 2 citroens and both had alot of trouble with their hydraulic syspension system (though the first they had never had any problems untill my dad drove it on the sidewalk at 60kpmh because he didnt see it, that pretty much was the start of alot of problems) but non of their cars ever had any serious gearbox or engine trouble.

Your seriously doing something wrong if your car needs alot of maintanance to the moving parts of the engine and gearbox.

I really dont think a electric car will be that much cheaper to maintain, it will still have alot of parts that can break. And if your engine now breaks you have to buy a whole new one while a normal engine (that in most cases wont break either) you can replace parts that need to be replaced.
 
My parents always have bought second hand cars, all of them were more than 10 years old when they sold them again and they owned all sorts of different brands so its defenitly not a matter of luck because they had all sorts of others problems.
Yes it is a matter of luck. Most people will never have any serious engine trouble, but there is a certain probability, and it can hit you even if you're the most careful driver in the world and always keep your car in good condition.

Your seriously doing something wrong if your car needs alot of maintanance to the moving parts of the engine and gearbox.
Or maybe the manufacturer did something "wrong". No manufacturing process will ever produce perfect parts without exception. Some pieces break earlier than others.

I really dont think a electric car will be that much cheaper to maintain, it will still have alot of parts that can break. And if your engine now breaks you have to buy a whole new one while a normal engine (that in most cases wont break either) you can replace parts that need to be replaced.
And why would you not be able to replace parts in an electric motor?
 
My parents always have bought second hand cars, all of them were more than 10 years old when they sold them again and they owned all sorts of different brands so its defenitly not a matter of luck because they had all sorts of others problems. They owned 2 citroens and both had alot of trouble with their hydraulic syspension system (though the first they had never had any problems untill my dad drove it on the sidewalk at 60kpmh because he didnt see it, that pretty much was the start of alot of problems) but non of their cars ever had any serious gearbox or engine trouble.

Your seriously doing something wrong if your car needs alot of maintanance to the moving parts of the engine and gearbox.

I really dont think a electric car will be that much cheaper to maintain, it will still have alot of parts that can break. And if your engine now breaks you have to buy a whole new one while a normal engine (that in most cases wont break either) you can replace parts that need to be replaced.

So your personal anecdotal evidence is used as the benchmark of automotive reliability?

While it not be 'common' for an engine to fail, it is far from rare. Blowing a head gasket isn't really all that hard to do and isn't always due to improper care or service. Moving parts sometimes break, there's a tremendous amount of force and wear on a combustion engine and all it takes is for some micro-fracture in a key part (clutch, crankshaft, head, lifter) to cause catastrophic failure. Electric motors have a lot less things going on making them significantly more reliable.

<edit> 10 years isn't really very long for a motor
 
What kind of car do you drive? because I never heard anyone having a engine failure. If it really is far from rare you'd imagen i'd atleast heard of somebody I know in 10 years.

If 10 years is long ofcourse also depends on the car and the milage. The petrol engines in my parents citroens and opel (vauxhall) were pretty much done for after 100 to 150k kilometers. The Ford diesel they have now did 400k or so already and doesnt have much problems (they spend a fortune on the rest of the car, but atleast the engine never gave much trouble).
 
The Netherlands is unique in that there are very few cars driving around in the country older than 8 years. It has the youngest cars in Europe (vs Greece and ironically Sweden, which says something about Volvo more than anything, as 50% of their cars are Volves, and 25% are Saabs), partly due to how leasing is handled here and all cars older than 8 years end up in Poland.

Having said all that, I do think while engines certainly do fail and some more than others (Diesels really are very reliable), typically other important parts go first, and gearbox is definitely a weak point in cars, especially in manuals. It's again typical of Swedish people, especially older people, who now after their previous Volvo ;) expect their cars to last long, and know that their gearbox is one of the more expensive parts that they can avoid having to replace sooner rather than later (all comparatively of course) by being real gentle with the car (though then of course forgetting to rev up the engine enough every once in a while to blow out all the fine-dust particles)
 
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