Hybrid cars should be banned

[Sxotty]

I know about the trains, most trains in europe are running on electricity alone for quite some time now. I knew about ships too using a normal engine to generate power for the engines, for example those things that can turn under the ship so you cant have a normal drive shaft running to them. But they arnt really hybrids in the sence they are more fuel efficient

Hybrid != less pollution!= more efficient.

Hybrid is you are running something to generate electricity to power an electric motor. In that sense all electric trains are not hybrids in any shape or fashion.

And the reason that they wen to diesel electric is not just so they could have motors that turn 360s it was for efficiency first actually. A train doesn't need the motor to turn like a ship. It just needs the benefits that an electric motor can provide.

And they do pollute less than conventionally powered equivalent power units. And no ships pollute quite a small amount per ton of cargo when compared to airplanes. Nothing is worse than flying really.

And with an all-electric car being almost solid state and having no nasty fuels and other chemical stuff, it should last as long as the battery does. The main downside would be, that the government will find a way to jack up the taxes big time if many people buy one, because they don't like you to have almost zero running costs.

You know something has to pay for the roads. Well they have to do that or make toll roads.

 

[Frank]

Btw, that's why a Bugatti Veyron has launch control and a cooled, multi-plated ceramic clutch: rev it up to 4000 RPM and let it rip!

Of course, you shouldn't do that too often if you don't want the engine replaced every year or so.

 

[Frank]

You know something has to pay for the roads. Well they have to do that or make toll roads.

Yes, I know, and I wasn't complaining as such, but stating that those almost zero running costs won't last, and those cars will become much more expensive.

OTOH, I would like it if they didn't mostly use those driving taxes to fill out their general budget, but actually used them to improve driving.

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

Today's diesel cars with cleaner fuels, fuel injection, turbos and ECUs give a very good driving experience, and a lot of the issues people quote against diesels are now past problems.

But then, aren't you left with the far more difficult problem of getting people to grow up? As much as you can say a guy like Jeremy Clarkson acts like an idiotic child whenever he hears the name "Diesel", you can't deny that the ignorance that imbues him in that context is one echoed by the majority of UK citizenry (or US, for that matter).

I seem to remember reading somewhere that part of the reason for the increase in cost of Diesel is that the US, who traditionally don't use it all that much, are now using more of it themselves. In the past, Europe would have Diesel shipped across from US refineries but this supply has dwindled and therefore cost has risen. Note that I just remember reading this - I can't confirm its veracity!

This was just one factor in the increase in Diesel costs in addition to increased demand due to the improvement of Diesel engines in recent years.

Well, diesels by nature cost more to make and to service if anything does go wrong because they require beefier parts due to higher compression and higher fuel pressures. Additionally, the US is covered by a pretty wide spread of climates, so for instance, diesel would be a real problem for people in the Midwest since cold starting is a problem (waiting for the glowplugs to warm up). To add to it, US consumers on the whole are really not capable of looking at fuel costs over long periods as opposed to the cost of individual fillups, so even though a diesel for the same vehicle will cost less in terms of fuel, no one can see past the fact that the per gallon cost is higher. Then there's emissions, of course, and poorer quality diesel hurts a lot more, but overall, it's attributable to the fact that US emissions are measured on exhaust output quality, unlike the European model which is based on exhaust output for a given distance traveled -- and hence fuel consumption rate has no impact on the results, so the fact that diesels have poorer air quality (even if that argument is nullified by the lower fuel consumption) means that they will generally not pass. To top it off, manufacturers want cars to be seen as consumables, and get people to buy new every so often -- how do they do that when you put in a drivetrain that can easily last 500,000 miles without a breaking a sweat?

There's a calculation somewhere that said something along the lines of 40% of the cars in the US could be converted to plain old diesel -- not even diesel-electric hybrid, and not even necessarily requiring any greater production of biodiesel -- and that alone could eliminate all US demand for foreign oil (i.e. the current output of domestic oil fields would meet demand). I don't know what their definition of "car" was, but I'd expect that number would be slightly different by now anyway. Either way, it seems like such a pointless stat since it's a benchmark that can never be achieved.

 

[Zaphod]

Cold starts aren't much of a problem for modern diesel engines anymore. They use glow plugs and/or auxiliary heating systems. Some of these can be remote controlled and/or put on a timer so that it'll be ready to start by the time you get to it even in 20C below freezing weather.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

But then, aren't you left with the far more difficult problem of getting people to grow up? As much as you can say a guy like Jeremy Clarkson acts like an idiotic child whenever he hears the name "Diesel", you can't deny that the ignorance that imbues him in that context is one echoed by the majority of UK citizenry (or US, for that matter).

Ford did a diesel Focus a couple of years back that used a clever ECU to duplicate the feel of driving a petrol engined car, and supposedly did a very good job of it, so the technology is available.

Clarkson and the like are pretty irrelevant given that most of the cars he talks about are well beyond what people would buy for themselves.

 

[Frank]

For pure acceleration at the traffic light up to about 3000 rpm, diesel actually outperforms gasoline, even without a turbo. And with a turbo, it keeps on going. But you'll have to switch gears before that gasoline engine starts to really kick in and drag the car along.

 

[Frank]

Clarkson and the like are pretty irrelevant given that most of the cars he talks about are well beyond what people would buy for themselves.

But he's popular, so when he praises a car from a certain brand, it increases the demand for the affordable models of that brand.

Btw, I think the current most affordable car with the highest praises in reviews at the moment is the Ford Mondeo. And I think they actually did a swell job on that one. And that increases the perceived value of all Fords.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Hmm I dont know how much influence clarckson really has. You'd think that any person spending 30k or so on a car has the brains to realise TG is more entertainment that pure car review. Not only that, but when I buy a car my opinion would be the only one opinion that counts as I pay for it and have to drive it. OTOH you never know,people are easily influenced.

 

[poopypoo]

But then, aren't you left with the far more difficult problem of getting people to grow up? As much as you can say a guy like Jeremy Clarkson acts like an idiotic child whenever he hears the name "Diesel", you can't deny that the ignorance that imbues him in that context is one echoed by the majority of UK citizenry (or US, for that matter).

exactly! Most of this is about ego, and i've fallen victim to it many times myself. Even the bone-headed-est fratboy can recognize that exotic cars are for people with exotic salaries, but the lust lingers. When they're in the car market, do they consider a vintage lotus? No. A new camry? No. a new Miata, even? No. They want power and defiance and they want it shiny and new! And ponies! So thex get a mustang, or a corvette, maybe a 3-series... I dunno. It's not fair to brush too many people this way, but it's definitely a part of American heritage, a big albatross passed from generation to generation. What we need are hot people selling solar panels on a regular show called Extreme Alternative Power! ;p

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

But he's popular, so when he praises a car from a certain brand, it increases the demand for the affordable models of that brand.

Moreover, he reinforces and exemplifies the dominant mindset. So what if he's talking about cars you'll never be able to buy your entire life? He's still spouting stuff that the average armchair enthusiast would totally agree with, because it "feels" right, even if it's completely idiotic in reality. And that furthermore gives the average idiot the idea that "hey, even a disgustingly rich guy who can buy and sell Ford GTs with the same abandon I'd apply to buying a tank of premium says stuff in line with my way of thinking!"

 

[_xxx_]

Of course, you shouldn't do that too often if you don't want the engine replaced every year or so.

Less the engine, the gearbox (clutches) is the one suffering there.

 

[Arwin]

Clarkson isn't half-bad. He knows when to take a piss out of himself. Remember the episode with the Ford GT (which he owns) and how the other two got to make fun of him for not being able to drive to work with it without stopping for gas every one way, or how he couldn't get into it if a car was parked even at a very generous distance from the side (and for irony, they used a shiny, quiet, economical and easy to get out of Prius to boot).

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

He doesnt have his GT anymore btw, sold it because it would break down all the time (or did he buy it again? I remember him selling it and than buying it again but I believe he sold it again after that). He has a gallardo now.

 

[NVNDA]

Maybe not banned, just blown up

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

they say it does 0 - 60 in 10.9 seconds
they say it does 106 miles an hour
but then they also say it will also do 66 miles to the gallon.
Yeah... right

True or not, it certainly is great comedy

 

[Sxotty]

they say it does 0 - 60 in 10.9 seconds
they say it does 106 miles an hour
but then they also say it will also do 66 miles to the gallon.
Yeah... right

True or not, it certainly is great comedy

Golf Diesel he was talking about
A diesel engine delivering 75 bhp through a 5 speed manual transmission accelerates this Volkswagen GOLF from 0-60 in 16.7 seconds. Great fuel economy of 52.3 mpg gives a range of over 630 miles between fill-ups. CO2 emission levels are great at around 143 ppm. Air conditioning and central locking are fitted as standard equipment.


So it is pretty similar actually.

The Prius fuel economy is down now b/c the US gov't changed the test for fuel economy recently to one which actually mimics how people drive. Apparently the old one was better for hybrids for some reason (i.e. start stop like crazy in "city" driving mode.)

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

He was being sarcastic, it wont do the things they say.

 

[MulciberXP]

I shit you not, its true.

http://forum.politics.be/showthread.php?t=92356 (in dutch, but with online translation it should be clear enough to understand)

Small translation: According to british scientists a new diet should lower the amount of methane a cow produces.

Ever cow produces 100 to 200 liters of methane a day, which is about the same as a big landrover driving 50 kilometers every day.

So one cow pollutes as much as a landrover, so it pollutes more than a average car. It is a day though, not a year, I was wrong on that.

So it's true, but it's untrue? You were telling the truth just off by a factor of 365? That's all!

You own a prius, like you know anything

Cant do, we Dutch loooove our cows in the country side.

So we shouldn't drive hybrid cars because they produce 200L of methane, but we CANT get rid of cows that produce the same amount because they look good on the country-side? That's a strong argument.

Not really, there are dieselcars that are more economical. Unless you spend most of your time in a traffic jam ofcourse.

Correct, because most hybrids coming out now get similar mileage in or out of traffic. It's hilarious how you can clearly state the advantage of hybrids right there and yet negate it entirely. Oh sure they get better average mileage regardless if you're in traffic or not....but...so what.

You've seen one, it doesnt exactly look quality build. Put it next to a Benz or a BMW and you'll know which one will still be running in 20 years.

Again, like your RIDICULOUS comment above where you were only off by a factor of 365, you have nothing to support this bs claim. You just dont like the way it LOOKS.

Batteries contain alot of very non friendly materials, I dont know how much of it can be recycled but even if a small amount cant be it will polute alot more than a average car because most stuff can be recycled these days (exept the interior I believe).

I've bolded the only part of that statement that we can be sure of.

Some time ago on NG there was a show about being able to get clean fuel out of recycled bits of car interior and tires, it even worked in normal engines with a few minor changes. Something like this seems alot more viable to me because they are reusing materials that normally cant be reused because if you burn them you get lots of toxic stuff and they recycled them in a other way and get the fuel out of it much like it happens in nature but alot faster.

Again, care to provide any evidence of this? This is about the most absurd thing you've said yet. Did you get this idea from watching Back to the Future II? When we go to fuel up are they just gona throw car seats and tires into the engine? Burning rubber car tires is what we're gonna do for the environment?

 

[MulciberXP]

The Prius fuel economy is down now b/c the US gov't changed the test for fuel economy recently to one which actually mimics how people drive. Apparently the old one was better for hybrids for some reason (i.e. start stop like crazy in "city" driving mode.)

Fuel economy doesn't actually change because they change the tests. The only thign that changes is what they report. Fuel economy is going to vairy for everyone. I live in a city unfortunately and my life is practically scheduled around the traffic. For many people in this city, commuters, they spend an hour and a half a day in start/stop traffic. It's pathetic.