How will NVidia counter the release of HD5xxx?

[stevem]

I think it's just like with Intel... The company is too 'big' and 'evil' to really have a fanboy following.

You should go to an IDF... Nvidia does like to cast itself against Intel.

I'm still an an enthusiast at heart myself, even though I also look at things from a developer point-of-view.

My card was purchased for econometric analysis. Yep CUDA. Nvidia caters exceptionally to the academic/small/amateur dev. Access to software/docs/support has a strong effect & they know it.

But how can one in his right might be supporting AMD CPUs?

No whole of business stuff...

<snip>I defer to others on release schedules.

 

[trinibwoy]

We can faff around all we want but if more reviewers keep saying stuff like this it may turn out that Nvidia knows what they're doing. It all depends on the game, and with Batman it looks like they have their first winner. From Bit-Tech:

As well as being a member of Nvidia’s The Way It’s Meant To Be Played program, Batman: Arkham Asylum has also undergone a series of important enhancements that are accessible for anyone using Nvidia hardware.

Enhanced is where it’s really at though, adding smoke clouds that billow both beautifully and realistically when you pass through, plentiful curtains and cobwebs that all have cloth physics and police tape and ropes you can slice with your batarang. Hypothetically you could probably gain some tiny gameplay advantage through exploiting it, but it’s mainly just visual flair and doesn’t affect the gameplay too much.

That said, for those of you wanting our honest opinion, we’ll admit that if you want to get the most out of Batman then you will need Nvidia hardware – and the extra content is worth the effort if you’re thinking of making an upgrade soon anyway. At the same time though, it is worth noting that Nvidia has probably inflated the requirements somewhat – it recommends a GTX 260 and a PhysX dedicated 9800 GTX for the Enhanced setting, but we were fine with a single card

 

[John Reynolds]

And Batman is a major release, probably the biggest for PhysX so far.

I'll have to do some testing tonight, the game has a benchmark feature I can use to see what performance hit the various PhysX presets incur on my 285.

 

[ECH]

The most important aspect of DMM (but certainly not the only aspect) is that anyone can play the game with it. As long as you meet the hardware requirements. Again, I am not sure why this isn't being marketed for PC games as of yet though. Perhaps this is AMD's opportunity to either buy them or promote them along with their developer's relationship program.

In either case if Nvidia is trying to counter with just Physx AMD can counter with DMM IMO. Inwhich we will now have equality as far as having 2 physic technologies that were already developed.

Wow, looks like AMD will do exactly that if this article is true . The timing of this is impeccable though. I wonder if they read my post (I kid, I kid).

If the development team actually puts some time implementing DMM and promote/market it this should counter their competitor pretty good IMO.

The next step is that AMD will need to push DMM in some games now. Even if it means offering patches for current games. IE: Like what Nvidia did with UT3 and their physx maps. This should counter nvidia's cuda/physx IMO.

 

[neliz]

I'll have to do some testing tonight, the game has a benchmark feature I can use to see what performance hit the various PhysX presets incur on my 285.

Can you also see what B:AA does when PhysX runs on CPU but is set to level 1 instead of the default 5?

 

[Scali]

I think the existence of NV fansites belies that claim (disclaimer: I have nothing against the existnece of such sites <g>). Clearly both graphics IHVs have their sets of fans, to claim otherwise is just silliness IMO.

I think those NV-sites can generally be traced back to earlier days, when nVidia was the underdog against 3dfx and such, and nVidia was still 'cool'. It seems that the love for nVidia has cooled down considerably in the last few years.

 

[Tchock]

From a SIMD-friendly port perspective, Pixelux (if it were ever to be used) would make any other current GPGPU physics solver look like a cruel joke I guess. Yes, on both parties' hardware.

Somehow I'm getting the idea that 2 (FLOP-wise) weaker cards with render + PhysX actually works immensely better than 1 single, more powerful GPU? Scheduling issues?

 

[trinibwoy]

Somehow I'm getting the idea that 2 (FLOP-wise) weaker cards with render + PhysX actually works immensely better than 1 single, more powerful GPU? Scheduling issues?

That behavior varies by game and it's sometimes the case that the single card is faster than two slower cards.

 

[Sound_Card]

I think those NV-sites can generally be traced back to earlier days, when nVidia was the underdog against 3dfx and such, and nVidia was still 'cool'. It seems that the love for nVidia has cooled down considerably in the last few years.

Care to support that? I run into people on a weekly basis that don't know what Radeon is, but can immediately identify with geforce. The ones that do know what ATI/Radeon is, they don't like them for what ever reason. Outside the internet community, ATi is regarded much differently. World wide seems to be a little different though. Though I confess, things in the past year have been picking up well for ATi in regards to mind share. Last 3 years? LOL. I seriously doubt that claim.

 

[Scali]

Care to support that? I run into people on a weekly basis that don't know what Radeon is, but can immediately identify with geforce. The ones that do know what ATI/Radeon is, they don't like them for what ever reason. Outside the internet community, ATi is regarded much differently. World wide seems to be a little different though.

Well I think the whole 'fanboy' phenomenon is restricted to the internet.
Yes, obviously in the real world, the GeForce-brand is stronger, and nVidia still outsells AMD by a considerable margin... But those aren't the people that go on all sorts of forums and review sites on the net, and talk garbage about everything that isn't their favourite brand.

 

[trinibwoy]

Come on boys, let's not let the thread devolve into even more partisanship than it is already

 

[Scali]

Come on boys, let's not let the thread devolve into even more partisanship than it is already

It's a bit ironic, you have to admit, from someone with this in his signature:
ATi Beta Tester
AMD Panelist Member

 

[Grall]

Even the nay-sayers on PhysX had to reluctantly agree that PhysX is just easier to market at this point.

Really?

I'm doubtful, because there isn't a single killer app out there for physx, and I bet most PC gamers don't even have any idea what physx is, or what it does.

DX on the other hand is a well established brand, and most people, if not all, understand that higher number = better.

Physx on the other hand is crippled by the fact only a minority of the market supports it, and there's not much need for it anyway in games since there isn't all that much stuff flying about anyway. It's a solution desperately looking for a problem to fix, and worst of all, only works on Nvidia cards. Little reason for devs to set aside all that much resources to it...

 

[Sound_Card]

It's a bit ironic, you have to admit, from someone with this in his signature:
ATi Beta Tester
AMD Panelist Member

Whats ironic?

 

[Sound_Card]

Come on boys, let's not let the thread devolve into even more partisanship than it is already

He has not supported his statement. But I'm keeping it cool.. I see no reason why someone should get all worked up.

The statement is almost frivolous. A wild assumption as an appearing to be some sort of excuse. Their is no clear fangirl group on the web leading the way with the loudest cheer leading. Their is no more or less ATi fan sites as their are NV ones.

It just seems... insupportable.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I think those NV-sites can generally be traced back to earlier days, when nVidia was the underdog against 3dfx and such, and nVidia was still 'cool'. It seems that the love for nVidia has cooled down considerably in the last few years.

And yet NV fansites still greatly outnumber ATI fansites, of which I can only think of 1 - Rage 3D. Although I'm sure there must be more. As well the NV fansites get far more traffic than even Rage 3D.

And just go into any forum for any game. Or go into any MMO. Ask for a graphics card recommendation. You'll be flooded by Nvidia rules, ATI sucks. And Nvidia is always twice as fast as the fastest ATI card. And Nvidia's drivers are always bullet proof while ATI drivers suck.

Add in real life (at least for my area). And over half the people that come to me for computer builds and recommendations start off with. I want the best Graphics card. When I start listing options, over half will interrupt with, "Just give me the Nvidia options, ATI sucks (or is too slow)."

I'd say Nvidia still has a considerably large diehard fan following.

Regards,
SB

 

[Sound_Card]

And yet NV fansites still greatly outnumber ATI fansites, of which I can only think of 1 - Rage 3D. Although I'm sure there must be more. As well the NV fansites get far more traffic than even Rage 3D.

Regards,
SB

Rage3d is not even an ATi fan site either... The general graphics forum there half the time gets more views then the Radeon one.
Even then, Rage3d can also be traced back in the early days just like NVnews. They were both created in the 90's.

 

[fehu]

I was'nt expeting the "DX11 is for loser" option 0_0

 

[Sxotty]

I have nothing against AMD, but I haven't for a moment considered buying an AMD CPU ever since Intel launched the Core2. Nothing AMD makes whets my enthusiast appetite.

The unlockable X3's whet many a persons appetites b/c they were cheap. You can be an enthusiast and not want to spend $1k on a CPU.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

And it seems when people talk of PhysX having something to show while Dx11 doesn't. They continue to ignore the fact that there WILL be Dx11 games this holiday season.

It just boggles the mind how so many otherwise smart people can just so easily blatantly ignore the obvious. Hell Dx11 in upcoming games has already been demo'd to the public in the press event.

Whether Dx11 enhancements are as noticeable as PhysX enhancements can certainly be argued, but the absence of such?

I'll also go out on a limb and say that Dx11 enhancements on Dx11 hardware won't tank performance nearly as much as PhysX enhancements on Nvidia cards.

Regards,
SB