Ascent was pretty much all gameplay. Though not the type of game to set the world on fire
How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]
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How would you know if some people didn't buy a PS3 at all, or until much latter, because of the Motorstorm and Killzone 2 bullshit videos? You don't. Regardless of whether it impacts sales, doing just too likely to backfire. The Motorstorm and Killzone 2 'visual targets' (or whatever the hell Sony were calling them) were almost fifteen years ago - yikes! - but we're still seeing negative publicity when finished products don't meet earlier promises: WATCH_DOGS. Witcher 3. Spider-Man puddlegate!
It seems easier not to give people that ammunition and frankly, if your game that far away from realise that anything abut it could change, it's probably too early for trailers. E.g. the first The Last of Us 2 trailer was 2016 - six months after they shipped Uncharted 4. WTF. Naughty Dog? Procrastinating Dog more like.
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What was wrong with Spiderman? They actually made improvements on that oneHow would you know if some people din't big a PS3 at all, or until much latter, because of the Motorstorm and Killzone 2 bullshit videos? You don't. Regardless of whether it impacts sales, doing just too likely to backfire. The Motorstorm and Killzone 2 'visual targets' (or whatever the hell Sony were calling them) were almost fifteen years ago - yikes! - but we're still seeing negative publicity when finished products don't meet earlier promises: WATCH_DOGS. Witcher 3. Spider-Man puddlegate!
It seems easier not to give people that ammunition and frankly, if your game that far away from realise that anything abut it could change, it's probably too early for trailers. E.g. the first The Last of Us 2 trailer was 2016 - six months after they shipped Uncharted 4. WTF. Naughty Dog? Procrastinating Dog more like.
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That was more in jest but the 'controversy' picked up enough momentum to become puddlegate.
Not if you have a console launching in a few months and you need to showcase the games to the potential buyers.
What were Sony's real options at E3 '06 regards their upcoming games?
1) Show a WIP titles warts and all and hope gamers will appreciate that all those bugs and weak-source renderings will be sorted out when the titles finally release.
2) Show nothing at all and just promise there'll be great games.
3) Show 'concept renders' that generate the sort of excitement you want your platform to be about.
You reckon as boss of Sony, you'd have chosen option 2 and sold more consoles as a result?
It's not about Sony but about how to show off a platform. Sony's just being used as an example of the alternatives to what MS did because Sony have gone whole-hog towards the 'non realtime, not in engine' software showcase before. It would be worth comparing MS's previous efforts too for their prior platforms, as I don't recall those.
"Gameplay Trailers" don't count as "real gameplay" for most of the public. It's ok to make these trailers with many snippets from different moments and parts of the game to paint a broad strokes picture of the scope and feel of the title, but don't say that is "showing gameplay" that is more like "teasing gameplay".
What most of the public understands as gameplay is a slower sit down and playthrough of a full segment/mission of the game so we actually have the time to take in the gameplay style, the mechanics, graphics, and all else properly. Those were so popular on the ps360 gen. I don't understand why so many games are abandoning that format.
What most of the public understands as gameplay is a slower sit down and playthrough of a full segment/mission of the game so we actually have the time to take in the gameplay style, the mechanics, graphics, and all else properly. Those were so popular on the ps360 gen. I don't understand why so many games are abandoning that format.
I disagree. What happens is when the other company gets brought into one company's thread it gets overrun with off-topic discussion. It happens time and time again here.
If you want to bring in MS's previous efforts then fine. If you don't know those then maybe it's best not to participate.
Tommy McClain
A good case study of how to sell a upcoming title right that I can remember off the top of my head right now was Horizon ZD.
They did have the teaser-trailer style content, as they introduced the premise of the game's universe. Pre-rendered generic cgi (if it was in-engine or not was immaterial in that context) to explain this game was about tribes of neo-cavemen living in the ruins of a post-robotic-apocalypse world.
Right after that, they showed a bunch of clips of gameplay to paint the full scope. That would be the "gameplay trailer" bit in modern PR lingo. Ahh, there are dino-robots here, dino-robots there, jungle, deserts, ruins of modern cities, new cave-men cities. Ok cool.
And then, right after that, they showed a full uncut segment of continuous gameplay, fighting multiple creatures, using multiple gasgets, doing some exploring, traversal, looting. That's what gamers themselves call "gameplay". Bingo. That is it. That gives us a great picture of what the game is like, and gives us time to take it in properly. It has got it all. The Backstory, the big picture, and the closer look.
They did have the teaser-trailer style content, as they introduced the premise of the game's universe. Pre-rendered generic cgi (if it was in-engine or not was immaterial in that context) to explain this game was about tribes of neo-cavemen living in the ruins of a post-robotic-apocalypse world.
Right after that, they showed a bunch of clips of gameplay to paint the full scope. That would be the "gameplay trailer" bit in modern PR lingo. Ahh, there are dino-robots here, dino-robots there, jungle, deserts, ruins of modern cities, new cave-men cities. Ok cool.
And then, right after that, they showed a full uncut segment of continuous gameplay, fighting multiple creatures, using multiple gasgets, doing some exploring, traversal, looting. That's what gamers themselves call "gameplay". Bingo. That is it. That gives us a great picture of what the game is like, and gives us time to take it in properly. It has got it all. The Backstory, the big picture, and the closer look.
Well it did help that HZD had no cgi cutscenes, and that it simply looked incredible in game, while the cutscenes didn’t look that much different from in game graphics (unless my memory is failing me, which is possible)
I disagree completely. It's the natural evolution of the discussion - all discussions evolve. Going back over the thread to move out the discussion into a new thread, it's not at all obvious where the 'new thread' begins, because it's a gradual evolution.
I find that kinda insulting. Who is allowed to contribute to discussions on MS's presentations in your opinion? Should my early condemnation of heavy criticism be struck from the record because I can't cite 3 platform exclusives from both the XB360 and XB1 reveals?
MS held a public marketing event. There is discussion on that, on what people liked and didn't like and what other things MS could have done, talked about in relation to the wider industry. That strikes me as a normal console-forum discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point someone compares it to Nintendo and their showcases (same way Sony's shows have been). Wanting a separate thread on the games shown and another for the marketing is fine and a valid request, but asking people not to contribute because they aren't in your opinion suitably affiliated to a platform enough isn't.
MS showed clearly CG movies as tech demos for the first XBOX in the beginning claiming Toy Story Graphics. Then they showed real time versions which looked great but of course not as good.
Nintendo did the same with Zelda and the Rebirth "tech demo" for the GameCube. They were CG. Sony on the other hand showed almost exclusively if not completely real time tech demos for the PS2. Which were super impressive in 1999 and were matched with games (Tekken Tag, GT3, Ridge Race, Bouncer, MGS2 etc).
PS3 was the first time and probably the only time Sony relied so much on CG and lied so much.
You as a moderator know that there's a reason for staying on topic. Whenever a Microsoft/Xbox thread is started it's all nice until the larger Sony/PS participants started comparing it their system. It devolves the discussion every. single. time. Can you fault me to want to keep the discussion to stay on topic? If you want to split it off onto another thread fine. But leave the current thread alone.
I don't have a problem with anybody(MS & Sony fans) having opinions on the topic. Anybody can watch the video(s). Yet here we are another MS thread that got soured because somebody decided there wasn't enough Sony discussion in the mix. If you can't contribute to the MS discussion without bringing in Sony into the thread, then either stay out or create another thread or whatever. If you're insulted by that, then I can't help you.
I requested the discussion to stay on topic. I consider discussions on Sony's efforts off-topic in a MS thread. Plus, I did it before it was spun off. You said you you didn't know previous efforts from MS. So how you can you continue to participate if 1) you don't know MS's previous efforts 2) don't bring in Sony's efforts? Most were doing fine up until the last page or so. Even you until the Sony comparisons were brought in. It should have been spun off earlier if Sony's efforts wanted to be discussed.
BTW, thanks to whomever removed my post yet let Shifty to continue to quote it.
Tommy McClain
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If you have a console launching in a few months and your first party games in development can't hold together long enough to produce a representative in-game engine trailer for the game then skip it. But it wasn't the 2006 E3 trailer that was the problem, it was the bullshit render they released a year earlier.
I think you're confusing the actual E3 2006 trailer of actual game footage with the E3 2005 bullshit footage.
But option 3 would be my preference if you really do want to start seeding interest in a game not due out for over a year - with lots of on-screen caveats as NOT IN-GAME/IN-ENGINE warnings. REPRESENTATIVE OF INTENDED GAMEPLAY AND VISUALS.
But it was not presented that way.
It is always better to over deliver than under deliver. Promising things you can't deliver is how to lose trust. Then when you really do have some thing cool and show it off early, it may be brushed off as over-promising even if it is not and that cab damp the buzz and genuine enthusiasm.
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I ask myself why Guerrilla Game decide later to show gameplay and they will never do again E3 2005 présentation or they said they will never do in engine presentation only gameplay.
People expectation is every game to look like Hellblade 2, they set the expectation too high. If it was not in engine but realtime with some gameplay it would have been ok. Maybe in three years game will look like this on XSX but for two years there will be frustration.
The best is to show something when you are ready to show realtime footage of gameplay even PC footage if the console footage can look the same. Don't overpromise. E3 2005 shit...
Mortorstorm
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At least Hellblade 2 could be doable and expectations will be met once it is showed.
Killzone 2 and Motorstorm CG trailers are partly doable only on PS4, partly doable on PS5 and some downright impossible on any current real time renderer
But don't show something you will not see for the first two years of the console. They decided to be cross-gen for the first two years and I can understand they wanted to impress at the end, the expectation is too high compared to cross-gen games. This was the first impression the gamers had from Xbox Series X like KZ SF was the expectation of gamer for PS4.
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Thats something I wonder. So we wont be seeing any Series X exclusives taking advantage of the hardware real capabilities for 2 years and Hellblade 2 will be released so far away from launch?
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