How come Xenos dose not get as much publicity as Cell?

[Sound_Card]

Ya, sorry if it sounds dumb... but I can't help but think.... why?


It seems to me that Xenos dose more for 360 than Cell dose for PS3. Every dev out their can say how easy it is to code for 360, and most of this can be thanked by the USA in Xenos. I mean when it comes to it... what would you rather build your console from? Cell... or Xenos..? I have no doubt in my mind that most of you would pick Xenos including my self. But the problem is.... Cell is just in this spot light of glory among magazines and web sites, and I cant help but wonder why Xenos is not getting fair treatment?

 

[Skrying]

Most of the easy coding comes from Microsoft's great tools.

 

[Sound_Card]

Most of the easy coding comes from Microsoft's great tools.

They do have great dev kits. However, the hardware inside(most important Xenos) is very easy to code for and pay's a great deal to the sucess of Microsofts devloper tools. The software can make the hardware better only by so far, as in vise versa as well. But we have never seen such great praise of sucess from devs about xbox?

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

Wait, im confused here. Are we talking about "Xenos"(the gpu) or "Xenon"(the cpu), coz comparing a cpu vs a gpu seems.... odd :|

 

[Skrying]

Wait, im confused here. Are we talking about "Xenos"(the gpu) or "Xenon"(the cpu), coz comparing a cpu vs a gpu seems.... odd :|

Its a comparison of publicity. Nothing odd there.

 

[Skrying]

They do have great dev kits. However, the hardware inside(most important Xenos) is very easy to code for and pay's a great deal to the sucess of Microsofts devloper tools. The software can make the hardware better only by so far, as in vise versa as well. But we have never seen such great praise of sucess from devs about xbox?

Yes we did see lots of word on how easy Xbox was to develop for, especially since it was nothing but a closed platform PC. There was no great transition between what PC developers were used to, and those who were console developers had a tone of information on how to exploit what they were given.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but is there still not a API used for the Xbox 360? From my understanding that's what the developers are coding with a API extremely similar to that of DirectX.

 

[Sound_Card]

Wait, im confused here. Are we talking about "Xenos"(the gpu) or "Xenon"(the cpu), coz comparing a cpu vs a gpu seems.... odd :|

ya, im talking about Xenos.

I know you can't compare them side by side bench mark wise. However, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, why not has much publicity? I can comapre them in that respect. But you bring up another point in a way... How come RSX as well get's more publicity than Xenos across the media? The most I have seen for Xenos is the B3D review, but that was more of a geek thing than a publicity media thing... oh well...

 

[Carl B]

I don't think that Xenos gets less 'publicity' than RSX by any stretch, and I would also say that USA has nothing to do with why 360 is easy to develop for. As mentioned before by Skyring, it's the tools.

But ultimately, I think the reason Cell gets more publicity... is because it exists outside of the gaming space as well, whereas Xenos does not. As soon as third-party vendors start putting Xenos in servers and supercomputers and such, you'll see the publicity. And of course, we both know that's not happening. So...

 

[Crossbar]

Let me guess:
Cell is used by a number of companies, for different kind of applications. The documentation of Cell is extensive and is available on the net. Comparisons of CPUs are more straightforward than comparisons of GPUs.
Xenon is a custom made GPU for the 360 solely. Microsoft and ATI has released some information about the architecture, but not by far as much as is available about CELL.

 

[n00body]

Sony, IBM, and Toshiba are spending a great deal of time marketing the Cell as the next big thing for a number of consumer electronics. Microsoft is busy marketing the 360 as a whole, rather than placing emphasis on any of its parts. You have to remember that the 360 CPU and GPU are for it, and it alone. While ATI will eventually build GPUs based on what they learned from making Xenos, they will never manufacture a Xenos GFX card. So it really isn't worth their time to market the part by itself.

Hope that answered your question.

 

[inefficient]

Cell has interesting real world/non-gaming applications. So industry and academia are interested in it.

Xenos/Xenon -not so much.

Also IBM is of the opinion that Cell architecture is the one to expect big things from in the future. And they are hedging their bets on that technology and pushing for adoption of that design. It's also a design that is unique to IBM.

Traditional symmetric multi core - not so much.

 

[Sound_Card]

Ah yes,


I'm fully aware of Cell's other industry goals. The problem is, how exactly is it to go about doing so? Dose not a R520(x1800xt) pump out the same amount gflops of raw computing power? Hence one of the many reasons why AMD/ATI are marketing stream computing(GPGPU) as they see the potential and advantages? I think it's a given fact, that AMD's Firestream GPGPU will perform many fold faster than that of Cell in pretty much any given task and situation. I see all the hype on Cell, but I can't help but wonder why it is not being used as much as it's being hyped? I'm afraid that as far as Cell is going to go is PS3.


Now, I don't want to stray too far off topic now. As far as game consoles, I just get the impression that Cell is the biggest thing to ever happen to console technology. In reality, I'm just not seeing the overall benifits(at least not yet...). When you read on spec and paper, I can find in reality, that xenos is indeed one of the, if not biggest things to happen to console hardware.

 

[inefficient]

I think it's a given fact, that AMD's Firestream GPGPU will perform many fold faster than that of Cell in pretty much any given task and situation.

You should return that "fact" to whoever it was that gave it to you. It's a lemon.

 

[rounin]

I see all the hype on Cell, but I can't help but wonder why it is not being used as much as it's being hyped? I'm afraid that as far as Cell is going to go is PS3.....When you read on spec and paper, I can find in reality, that xenos is indeed one of the, if not biggest things to happen to console hardware.

I'm afraid that at this point, you're starting to sound like a viral marketer.

 

[Pozer]

1. Because IBM/Sony/Toshiba sunk alot of money in it. Alot.
2. Because it's a radical departure for processing logic. Unified pipes aren't as radical.
3. it has a cooler/hardcore name. The name invokes both a high-tech (biology) and a menacing (terrorism) connotation. Cell comes off as both alive and pissed. which makes it easy to write about and make it interesting.

 

[crazygambit]

3. it has a cooler/hardcore name. The name invokes both a high-tech (biology) and a menacing (terrorism) connotation. Cell comes off as both alive and pissed. which makes it easy to write about and make it interesting.

I have to really agree with that one. "The Cell" is such a cool name and when you hear narrator guy in the commercial say: "Meet The Cell Broadband Engine, it is the future" you can't help but believe him .

On the other hand Xenon and Xenos are trying too hard to sound cool and IMO fall flat on their faces, which is of course the only reason they don't get as much publicity.

 

[Sound_Card]

You should return that "fact" to whoever it was that gave it to you. It's a lemon.

If I'm wrong, then teach me. I'm not going to argue you if you have the facts layed out for me. But I'm itching to to why.

AMD's Firestream GPGPU performs many times faster than the triditional CPU when doing many of the same task, while at the same time, opening new frontiers in many other aspects.

But I want to know exactly what Cell specificly dose better than that of a GPGPU can't do better than Cell. The 7 SPE units in Cell are very simialar to that of a shader unit found in a GPU. The one main difference is that the SPE unit is made with flexibility in mind. The shaders found in today's gpu's are much more efficient in handling vector proscessing among other things as well.

Modern graphics cards have multiple elements very similar to the SPE's, known as shader units, with an attached high speed memory. Programs, known as shaders, are loaded onto the units to process the input data streams fed from the previous stages (possibly the CPU), according to the required operations.

The main differences are that the Cell's SPEs are much more general purpose than shader units, and the ability to chain the SPEs under program control offers considerably more flexibility, allowing the Cell to handle graphics, sound, or anything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)


So for what I can uderstand, the PPE in Cell can be related to the performance of a 800mhz pentium III(and in some cases worse). The difference is that this PPE(which from what I understand is essentally based from a IMB power PC), has a satilite of 7 SPE units with a additional SPU unit attached to each clocked at 3.2ghz.

Again, I only see Sony, IBM, and Toshiba using Cell and that's perfectly understandable considering they have invested over 400 million into the project. But no one else out side this group called "STI" is investing into it.

 

[Sound_Card]

I'm afraid that at this point, you're starting to sound like a viral marketer.

ROFL.

If I posted this at Rage3d, they would all get a good laugh. I honestly dont see how I potrayed my self as a viral marketer though?... I asked a simple qustion, can it be answered?

 

[Skrying]

ROFL.

If I posted this at Rage3d, they would all get a good laugh. I honestly dont see how I potrayed my self as a viral marketer though?... I asked a simple qustion, can it be answered?

Rage3D? Okay.......

Your question has been answered several times now. Most of them very legitimate answers.

 

[Sound_Card]

So I'm still itching to know why Cell is potryed by the bulk of the game industry media as some kind of uber powerful god that is sopposed to give PS3 the best grpahics this generation?