DeadlyNinja
Veteran
I'm only repeating what Ubi Soft says. Check out the IGN preview.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/101/1016202p1.html
Check out the 3rd paragraph.
How about a new Wii tech discussion thread? (Games Analysis)
- Thread starter DeadlyNinja
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I'm only repeating what Ubi Soft says. Check out the IGN preview.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/101/1016202p1.html
Check out the 3rd paragraph.
I'd say that means the game is rendering a frame in 12 ms leaving 4-5 ms spare to ensure framerate never drops below 60. Which is how to do it. If you want a stable 60 fps, you need the average to be less complex so the most complex scenes never drop below that limit. Also, or perhaps, the IO and game engine is running at 85 fps. It's certainly not drawing 85fps, unless they want to draw partial frames and introduce tearing for being too fast!
Yes it seems as if theyre saying parts(?) of the engine updates are running at 85fps> and fps is running at 60fps
I saw a video of this game, the guy was swinging the wiimote as a sword, cool! though often there was little colleration between the wiimotes movements + what happened onscreen (not cool at all)
I saw a video of this game, the guy was swinging the wiimote as a sword, cool! though often there was little colleration between the wiimotes movements + what happened onscreen (not cool at all)
grandmaster
Veteran
For those interested, the 720p mode of WipEout HD appears to sometimes render in excess of 60fps as I am seeing torn frames in the captures that are totally unique from one frame to the next - no duplication of video information at all. A bit mad but there you go...
Iron Tiger
Regular
Could it be that some of the additonal frames are buffered for the motion blur in RS2? What I've seen of it seems too smooth to be realtime.
I don't know where people get this idea that cel-shading doesn't require using the hardware. It's not like graphics just render in a default cel-shaded mode, and then you have to use a bunch of special effects to get rid of it.
Hahaha, good point. I think it's about what direction major developers push it. If they keep coming up with amazing smooth cell shaded graphics, but crappy, non shaded at all "realistic" graphics, people will be pushed to believe that cell shading is the way to go (and somehow ignore games that actually DO a good job showing off realism).
WHen I play contra or black on my ps2, it amazes me that the wii has not yet got that many 'showcase' titles. Because the hardware is there!
Imagine rogue squadron, times 2. That would look great, regardless of resolution.
I hope more technical complex games are coming for the wii, because it is a good machine.
Imagine rogue squadron, times 2. That would look great, regardless of resolution.
I hope more technical complex games are coming for the wii, because it is a good machine.
Don't be silly, there are better screenshots than that, and again, people are expecting a lot less from the Wii than they did from the GC it seems, hence the bar is set much lower this time. Red Steel is an average looking game even by the standards of 2003.
DeadlyNinja
Veteran
I have a question.
What exactly is preventing developers from using any kind of bump mapping on the Wii? Isn't the system built with EMBM capabilities? Does it eat up too much fill rate, or is it something else? Nintendo seems to be the only ones even using EMBM for their games, even then it's not in all of them.
This is Sin & Punishment 2 from Nintendo R&D1 and Treasure. The top image was from E3, and the bottom one is from today. Just look at the incredible amount of detail it adds to the turtle!
What exactly is preventing developers from using any kind of bump mapping on the Wii? Isn't the system built with EMBM capabilities? Does it eat up too much fill rate, or is it something else? Nintendo seems to be the only ones even using EMBM for their games, even then it's not in all of them.
This is Sin & Punishment 2 from Nintendo R&D1 and Treasure. The top image was from E3, and the bottom one is from today. Just look at the incredible amount of detail it adds to the turtle!
Can't port to PS2 or PSP. Same reason most Xbox games didn't have bump mapping.
Iron Tiger
Regular
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Crystal Bearers was another game that impressed me at E3. SE had a trailer looping on the big screen at their booth, and from across the show floor, I couldn't tell that it was a Wii game. I can't see any sort of bump mapping, shadows are nothing to write home about, and character geometry is pretty low, but textures are among the most detailed and varied I've seen on Wii. It's just a beautiful game to look at, especially after being subjected to so much "next gen brown."
Simple, developers are too freaken lazy. It's the mentality about the wii that people have, developers know that before people even put the disk in their Wii, they know that the graphics are going to be no were near as nice or pretty looking as the 360 or ps3, so developers just don't even try.
There are some new Darkside Chronicles videos as well which show definite improvement.
Of course, I know this is a tech forum and we're more likely to discuss certain key features of the engines being used (such as lighting), but you can't deny art direction makes a great part of the overall look. Knowing how the hardware works does help, if only to give the developers options with which to toy with.
I don't think it's just that. Given that most PS3/360 developers now are focused on tech, I'd see I see the more great-looking Wii games come from teams that actually have a great art department, and I don't mean just concept but execution. That is one of the main reasons why, despite being technically advanced, The Conduit fails to look as impressive as Cavia's efforts shown in The Darkside Chronicles (I'd even go as far to say that even Dead Space Extraction looks better than The Conduit, and they could've easily made into a 3rd person shooter given the fluidity I've seen in videos). And like the poster above said, The Crystal Bearers barely uses any EMBM yet looks visually stunning.
Of course, I know this is a tech forum and we're more likely to discuss certain key features of the engines being used (such as lighting), but you can't deny art direction makes a great part of the overall look. Knowing how the hardware works does help, if only to give the developers options with which to toy with.
Outside some specific cases of devs going "wii can't do bump maps" I don't think it is laziness. The team's probably aren't given the opportunity to push graphics tech, even if it should be straightforward for that platform now.
tapionvslink
Banned
WCome on, gamecube did bump mapping, and besides, there are games like Dewy´s adventure were Wii displays normal mapping
DeadlyNinja
Veteran
I've seen small developers rush out a launch game for the Wii with bump mapping. Ever heard of Pipeworks? Not a big name developer at all. They were one of the first 3rd party developers to use bump mapping on the Gamecube and on the Wii. I don't think Pipeworks had a very big budget or much time. They worked on games like Rampage and Godzilla Unleashed. Both games had bump mapping.
Yeah, bad art can really kill a tech. I personally thought the new Batman game looks very ugly. I just don't like the art for that game.
There are those that can do good art and good tech on any console. Mario Galaxy has amazing art and amazing tech behind it. Despite playing way more technologically advanced games on my PC, I couldn't help but be in awe of Super Mario Galaxy when I borrowed the game and the console to play.
The original spirit of this thread is technical analysis of Wii games. Please see this thread http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=55452 for one user's in-depth analysis of the hardware.
Further deviation in this thread will not be tolerated.
Further deviation in this thread will not be tolerated.
tapionvslink
Banned
Mario galaxy is good, but do not employ it as example as the power limit of wii since ATI and most recent games have prove the contrary. Dont act as a wii gamer who has accepted the supposed limit specs of wii, that has been done before you know?.
Again, there many proves out there that suggest that wii has a gpgpu, especially the displacement mapping patents, the nividia physx sdk adquisition, the comments from konami that Wii has a dedicated ppu, Factor 5 engine, the comments of ubisoft in which in one of thier interviews they compared the aTI Hollywood between an ATI Tadeon x1400 and an ATI Radeon x1600, games that show HDR(something gamecube didnt have) knowing that the ATI Radeon x1000 family integrates, games with HDR+Antialaising like: Mounster Hunter 3, Gladiator, the Grinder, Silent Hill Shatered memories, Resident Evil DarrkSide Chronicles, etc.. , and thats a feature of the ATI Radeon x1000 family too.
Mounster hunter 3
http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=3996
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Monster Hunter 3 (~Tri) Preview
Upon the series debut on PS2 back in 2004 the public reaction to the Monster Hunter series was, at best, mediocre. Someone, who is unquestionably very happy now, proposed porting Monster Hunter to Sony's portable wonder and here we are, with MH2G climbining to 3 million and counting! Now, let's take a sneak peek at how things fare for the next iteration of the franchise, Monster Hunter 3, developed from the ground up on Wii, through the free demo bundled with the system's own version of Monster Hunter G which was recently released. Before we start, let me make it clear that I don't speak Japanese, so don't ask for any story coverage.
The demo consists of two quests, hunt either a Kurubekko (little wyvern much like Kut-Ku) or an alpha carnivore, Dosjagi. You can choose between 5 weapons: Great Sword, Sword & Shield, Hammer, Light Crossbow and Heavy Crossbow. Make your selections and off you go! The first thing you'll notice is the spectacular graphics; no, that's no hyperbole. The lighting, the texture detail, anti-aliasing (yes, you read that right, no jaggies), HDR (High dynamic range rendering for us geeks) and other technologies make this one of the prettiest Wii games on the market, period.
PSP Monster Hunter games looked phenomenal on the platform and pushed the hardware beyond what was thought possible, Capcom made no compromises this time either. The game also features a great musical score, which is much more epic in scope than previous iterations. Loading times between each areas take 1-2 seconds tops, nothing disturbing, but not very pleasant either.
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tapionvslink
Banned
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